Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[RockMyAmadeus]

That is not correct. You are parsing out sales that hurt you, calling sales "sales" that aren't, and narrowing the field of comps to give a distorted impression about what's really been going on with this book for the last ten years. It is what it is, again, don't shoot the messenger.

 

-J.

 

 

I have also decided that there will be no further reason for me to post in this thread until you or anyone else offers up any publicly available sales data that actually supports any (and I mean any) of your statements about the purported "value" of a cerebus 1 in a 9.2 vs the real world value of a hulk 181, 9.2.

 

-J.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm saying that when you look at ALL the sales over the 10 year period we have data there is a clear drop in prices in its highest grades,

 

This is not a reasonable conclusion to make, based on the data available.

 

That is the fundamental problem you are having.

 

You are trying to paint a picture with a few droplets of paint, on a canvas that's mostly blank.

 

This is not reasonable.

[Rip]

I'm saying that when you look at ALL the sales over the 10 year period we have data there is a clear drop in prices in its highest grades,

 

This is not a reasonable conclusion to make, based on the data available.

 

That is the fundamental problem you are having.

 

You are trying to paint a picture with a few droplets of paint, on a canvas that's mostly blank.

 

This is not reasonable.

He makes wrong claims in every post (addressed to me anyway) and got the basic sales data wrong.

If you read our conversation you can find easy to spot errors in every post.

 

One of his many errors was that he counted the 9.0 2012 sale for $1434 as a 9.2 sale.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rip

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm saying that when you look at ALL the sales over the 10 year period we have data there is a clear drop in prices in its highest grades,

 

This is not a reasonable conclusion to make, based on the data available.

 

That is the fundamental problem you are having.

 

You are trying to paint a picture with a few droplets of paint, on a canvas that's mostly blank.

 

This is not reasonable.

He makes wrong claims in every post (addressed to me anyway) and got the basic sales data wrong.

If you read our conversation you can find easy to spot errors in every post.

 

One of his many errors was that he counted the 9.0 2012 sale for $1434 as a 9.2 sale.

 

This is correct. And he's been doing this since the beginning of the thread, and despite being corrected multiple times, he continues to make the same wrong claims in post after post.

 

Unfortunately, he, bronzejonny, AlexanderM, and blazincomics have been a mutual admiration society of sorts, arguing the same unsound reasoning for pages, and supporting each other's commentary.

 

Oh well.

 

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

[HighStakesComics]

An interesting auction to watch might be the IH 181 9.4 OWW CVA Exceptional copy in the summer feature Comiclink ending this week. It's at $3750 and it ends tomorrow. For obvious reasons this copy has breached the all time high in 9.4 according to gpa, whom link doesn't report too. It's a helluva copy. That said, it won't likely surpass the halfway point of the last 9.4 Cerebus #1 sale.

[Rip]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

 

Actually that part is true I made the error first then caught it.

 

Despite that it would most certainly effect the performance and analysis.

 

Define lackluster performance?

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rip

[Jaydogrules]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

 

Actually that part is true I made the error first then caught it.

 

Despite that it would most certainly effect the performance and analysis.

 

Define lackluster performance?

 

It wouldn't, because as I said the outlier sale of the blue label 9.0 cerebus 1 is the only bright spot that you have been hanging your hat on the entire time. The 8.0 and 8.5 sales this year kill you, the book does not triple in value from an 8.5-9.0, there has been no 9.2 sale recorded in years, and in its highest grade (9.4), there has been price deflation. This is not a book where there is any evidence that a blue label would command a premium over an SS file copy. That is merely speculation on your part. SS copies routinely sell for more than blue (right or wrong), take for example the Hulk 181 9.2 SS copy going for $3700 in march.

 

Lackluster performance means a book that has seen either stagnant and/or declining sales figures over a ten year period from its top grade down, with waning collector interest, in a book that was already niche to begin with.

 

Granted you may still have some old school collectors who want one of the handful of copies of it available in its top one or two grades, but the book obviously has its best days behind it, and barring some mainstream media push caused by a cartoon or something, that is unlikely change. And while I don't necessarily disagree with Overstreet's value of it placed at $2100, I do vehemently disagree with the value placed on an IH 181 of $2,000, because the book cannot be had for that price in a 9.2. Overstreet got it wrong, hence the original point of this thread.

 

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

[RockMyAmadeus]

and in its highest grade (9.4), there has been price deflation.

 

This is incorrect.

[Rip]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

 

Actually that part is true I made the error first then caught it.

 

Despite that it would most certainly effect the performance and analysis.

 

Define lackluster performance?

 

It wouldn't, because as I said the outlier sale of the blue label 9.0 cerebus 1 is the only bright spot that you have been hanging your hat on the entire time. The 8.0 and 8.5 sales this year kill you, the book does not triple in value from an 8.5-9.0, there has been no 9.2 sale recorded in years, and in its highest grade (9.4), there has been price deflation. This is not a book where there is any evidence that a blue label would command a premium over an SS file copy. That is merely speculation on your part. SS copies routinely sell for more than blue (right or wrong), take for example the Hulk 181 9.2 SS copy going for $3700 in march.

 

Lackluster performance means a book that has seen either stagnant and/or declining sales figures over a ten year period from its top grade down, with waning collector interest, in a book that was already niche to begin with.

 

Granted you may still have some old school collectors who want one of the handful of copies of it available in its top one or two grades, but the book obviously has its best days behind it, and barring some mainstream media push caused by a cartoon or something, that is unlikely change. And while I don't necessarily disagree with Overstreet's value of it placed at $2100, I do vehemently disagree with the value placed on an IH 181 of $2,000, because the book cannot be had for that price in a 9.2. Overstreet got it wrong, hence the original point of this thread.

 

-J.

 

I've already addressed your claims regarding the 9.0 being the only bright spot numerous times. Please do not keep stating this.

The 9.4 sale is not a price drop, its a price raise from the 2010 sale.

Why are we to only count the high sale of 2004, and why not address the 2009, and 2010 sales for a 7.7K. A 2014 sale is a more current sale which better establishes its current value. So even if its a price drop from 2004, the point is moot regarding current values.

 

I've already addressed your circular statement regarding the 8.5 sales as well.

Third time posting this, I'll just cut and paste.

"But how could the recent 8.5 price drag the price down if the 8.5 went up from last year when the 8.5 sold for $820 and the 9.0 sold for $2500 within a two month time period?

Can we agree this statement is false where you claim:

"Going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that. I would argue that the 8.5 sale of cerebus 1 that just sold for $850 a few weeks ago drags down the current value of that 9.0 to more in the $1500 range. "

 

Also if we add the Comiclink sale, then there was also a $1050 sale this year. Does that not count, even after the sale is no longer on the site?

 

I have already addressed the blue label staements as well.

There are fewer HG Blue labels so its not unheard of to have Blues go for more than Yellow when this happens. In this case the Blues have seemed outperformed the Yellows.

The last Yellow sale was 2012 9.0 at $1434. The following year it was $2500 in Blue and in 2005 it was $1750. Now I can say these are the reasons the book has been going up. But there seems to be more than one sale that seems to suggest that the blue label may have something to do with this.

 

Lackluster according to you? But what if the book has gone down then up in between your arbitrary timeline of 10 years, then what? At what point does it not become lackluster?

 

I make no claims of Overstreet values and how he comes to his conclusions.

 

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rip

[Jaydogrules]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

 

Actually that part is true I made the error first then caught it.

 

Despite that it would most certainly effect the performance and analysis.

 

Define lackluster performance?

 

It wouldn't, because as I said the outlier sale of the blue label 9.0 cerebus 1 is the only bright spot that you have been hanging your hat on the entire time. The 8.0 and 8.5 sales this year kill you, the book does not triple in value from an 8.5-9.0, there has been no 9.2 sale recorded in years, and in its highest grade (9.4), there has been price deflation. This is not a book where there is any evidence that a blue label would command a premium over an SS file copy. That is merely speculation on your part. SS copies routinely sell for more than blue (right or wrong), take for example the Hulk 181 9.2 SS copy going for $3700 in march.

 

Lackluster performance means a book that has seen either stagnant and/or declining sales figures over a ten year period from its top grade down, with waning collector interest, in a book that was already niche to begin with.

 

Granted you may still have some old school collectors who want one of the handful of copies of it available in its top one or two grades, but the book obviously has its best days behind it, and barring some mainstream media push caused by a cartoon or something, that is unlikely change. And while I don't necessarily disagree with Overstreet's value of it placed at $2100, I do vehemently disagree with the value placed on an IH 181 of $2,000, because the book cannot be had for that price in a 9.2. Overstreet got it wrong, hence the original point of this thread.

 

-J.

 

I've already addressed your claims regarding the 9.0 being the only bright spot numerous times. Please do not keep stating this.

The 9.4 sale is not a price drop, its a price raise from the 2010 sale.

Why are we to only count the high sale of 2004, and why not address the 2009, and 2010 sales for 7.7K And its a blue not a yellow. A 2014 sale is a more current sale which better establishes its current value. So even if its a price drop from 2004, the point is moot regarding current values.

 

I've already addressed your circular statement regarding the 8.5 sales as well.

Third time posting this, I'll just cut and paste.

"But how could the recent 8.5 price drag the price down if the 8.5 went up from last year when the 8.5 sold for $820 and the 9.0 sold for $2500 within a two month time period?

Can we agree this statement is false where you claim:

"Going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that. I would argue that the 8.5 sale of cerebus 1 that just sold for $850 a few weeks ago drags down the current value of that 9.0 to more in the $1500 range. "

 

Also if we add the Comiclink sale, then there was also a $1050 sale this year. Does that not count, even after the sale is no longer on the site?

 

I have already addressed the blue label staements as well.

There are fewer HG Blue labels so its not unheard of to have Blues go for more than Yellow when this happens. In this case the Blues have seemed outperformed the Yellows.

The last Yellow sale was 2012 9.0 at $1434. The following year it was $2500 in Blue and in 2005 it was $1750. Now I can say these are the reasons the book has been going up. But there seems to be more than one sale that seems to suggest that the blue label may have something to do with this.

 

Lackluster according to you? But what if the book has gone down then up in between your arbitrary timeline of 10 years, then what? At what point does it not become lackluster?

 

I make no claims of Overstreet values and how he comes to his conclusions.

 

I have responded to these statements ad nauseum. You consider a $33 increase in price over a year's period in an 8.5 to be something other than "flat", "stagnant", "menial", or "meaningless"? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

You believe that a book that sold for $10.6K in 2004 in its highest grade (9.4) and then $9k in 2014, with some zig zags in between that still left the book with a net loss of about 15% over a 10 year period is a book that's hot, in demand, and on the move? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

You want to use an unverified "pending sale" on Comic Link as a "comp", and pretend the other 5 books or so in similar grades haven't been languishing on there for months with nothing but low ball offers that are in line with last year's prices or below? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

You want to believe that a blue label book is more valuable than a file copy/ SS signed by the creator of the book? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

Basically, you can go right on ahead believing whatever you need to believe, and studying that lone sale of 9.0 so you can feel good about a book that the market at large forgot about a long time ago. Because without that random, outlier 9.0 sale there would be nothing but a piddling little price difference of only a couple hundred dollars in even that grade from 2005-2012. Which, again, is why I say that 9.0 is the one and only sale that even remotely helps you. But not really.

 

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

You believe that a book that sold for $10.6K in 2004 in its highest grade (9.4) and then $9k in 2014,

 

This is not what happened. You are talking about two entirely different types of books.

[Rip]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

 

Actually that part is true I made the error first then caught it.

 

Despite that it would most certainly effect the performance and analysis.

 

Define lackluster performance?

 

It wouldn't, because as I said the outlier sale of the blue label 9.0 cerebus 1 is the only bright spot that you have been hanging your hat on the entire time. The 8.0 and 8.5 sales this year kill you, the book does not triple in value from an 8.5-9.0, there has been no 9.2 sale recorded in years, and in its highest grade (9.4), there has been price deflation. This is not a book where there is any evidence that a blue label would command a premium over an SS file copy. That is merely speculation on your part. SS copies routinely sell for more than blue (right or wrong), take for example the Hulk 181 9.2 SS copy going for $3700 in march.

 

Lackluster performance means a book that has seen either stagnant and/or declining sales figures over a ten year period from its top grade down, with waning collector interest, in a book that was already niche to begin with.

 

Granted you may still have some old school collectors who want one of the handful of copies of it available in its top one or two grades, but the book obviously has its best days behind it, and barring some mainstream media push caused by a cartoon or something, that is unlikely change. And while I don't necessarily disagree with Overstreet's value of it placed at $2100, I do vehemently disagree with the value placed on an IH 181 of $2,000, because the book cannot be had for that price in a 9.2. Overstreet got it wrong, hence the original point of this thread.

 

-J.

 

I've already addressed your claims regarding the 9.0 being the only bright spot numerous times. Please do not keep stating this.

The 9.4 sale is not a price drop, its a price raise from the 2010 sale.

Why are we to only count the high sale of 2004, and why not address the 2009, and 2010 sales for 7.7K And its a blue not a yellow. A 2014 sale is a more current sale which better establishes its current value. So even if its a price drop from 2004, the point is moot regarding current values.

 

I've already addressed your circular statement regarding the 8.5 sales as well.

Third time posting this, I'll just cut and paste.

"But how could the recent 8.5 price drag the price down if the 8.5 went up from last year when the 8.5 sold for $820 and the 9.0 sold for $2500 within a two month time period?

Can we agree this statement is false where you claim:

"Going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that. I would argue that the 8.5 sale of cerebus 1 that just sold for $850 a few weeks ago drags down the current value of that 9.0 to more in the $1500 range. "

 

Also if we add the Comiclink sale, then there was also a $1050 sale this year. Does that not count, even after the sale is no longer on the site?

 

I have already addressed the blue label staements as well.

There are fewer HG Blue labels so its not unheard of to have Blues go for more than Yellow when this happens. In this case the Blues have seemed outperformed the Yellows.

The last Yellow sale was 2012 9.0 at $1434. The following year it was $2500 in Blue and in 2005 it was $1750. Now I can say these are the reasons the book has been going up. But there seems to be more than one sale that seems to suggest that the blue label may have something to do with this.

 

Lackluster according to you? But what if the book has gone down then up in between your arbitrary timeline of 10 years, then what? At what point does it not become lackluster?

 

I make no claims of Overstreet values and how he comes to his conclusions.

I have already addressed all of your claims ad nauseum. You consider a $33 increase in price over a year's period in an 8.5 is something other than "flat", "stagnant", "menial", or "meaningless"? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

False claim regarding "addressed all of your claims ad nauseum".

You believe that a book that sold for $10.6K in 2004 and then $9k in 2014, with some zig zags in between that still left the book with a net loss of about 15% from 10 years ago is a book that's hot, in demand, and on the move? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

Never made any claims of hot, But I did state you were incorrect regarding a drop in value. So indeed your claims regarding only a 9.0 sale to support claims was incorrect.

You want to use an unverified "pending sale" on Comic Link as a "comp", and pretend the other 5 books or so in similar grades haven't been languishing on there for months with nothing but low ball offers that are in line with last year's prices or below? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

I have already shown why pending is meaningless on Comiclink, and by the way, it is no longer pending. Similar grades is a moot point. It wasn't about other grades. Low ball offers, moot. Glad I don't need to quote myself another time (thumbs u

You want to believe that a blue label book is more valuable than a file copy SS signed by the creator of the book? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

That's fine. You can disagree here. Clearly since there are limited sales.

Basically, you can go right on ahead believing whatever you need to believe, and studying that lone sale of 9.0 so you can feel good about a book that the market at large forgot about a long time ago. Because without that random, outlier 9.0 sale there would be a very insignificant price change in even that grade from 2005-2012. Which, again, is why I say that 9.0 is the one and only sale that even remotely helps you. (thumbs u

 

-J.

But its wrong everytime you state that only the 9.0 sale helps. The 9.4 at 9K in addition of a recent 9.0 sales helps determine the price of a high grade copy. If I only had the recent 9.0, then I would have a harder time making claims regarding current values.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rip

[Jaydogrules]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

 

Actually that part is true I made the error first then caught it.

 

Despite that it would most certainly effect the performance and analysis.

 

Define lackluster performance?

 

It wouldn't, because as I said the outlier sale of the blue label 9.0 cerebus 1 is the only bright spot that you have been hanging your hat on the entire time. The 8.0 and 8.5 sales this year kill you, the book does not triple in value from an 8.5-9.0, there has been no 9.2 sale recorded in years, and in its highest grade (9.4), there has been price deflation. This is not a book where there is any evidence that a blue label would command a premium over an SS file copy. That is merely speculation on your part. SS copies routinely sell for more than blue (right or wrong), take for example the Hulk 181 9.2 SS copy going for $3700 in march.

 

Lackluster performance means a book that has seen either stagnant and/or declining sales figures over a ten year period from its top grade down, with waning collector interest, in a book that was already niche to begin with.

 

Granted you may still have some old school collectors who want one of the handful of copies of it available in its top one or two grades, but the book obviously has its best days behind it, and barring some mainstream media push caused by a cartoon or something, that is unlikely change. And while I don't necessarily disagree with Overstreet's value of it placed at $2100, I do vehemently disagree with the value placed on an IH 181 of $2,000, because the book cannot be had for that price in a 9.2. Overstreet got it wrong, hence the original point of this thread.

 

-J.

 

I've already addressed your claims regarding the 9.0 being the only bright spot numerous times. Please do not keep stating this.

The 9.4 sale is not a price drop, its a price raise from the 2010 sale.

Why are we to only count the high sale of 2004, and why not address the 2009, and 2010 sales for 7.7K And its a blue not a yellow. A 2014 sale is a more current sale which better establishes its current value. So even if its a price drop from 2004, the point is moot regarding current values.

 

I've already addressed your circular statement regarding the 8.5 sales as well.

Third time posting this, I'll just cut and paste.

"But how could the recent 8.5 price drag the price down if the 8.5 went up from last year when the 8.5 sold for $820 and the 9.0 sold for $2500 within a two month time period?

Can we agree this statement is false where you claim:

"Going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that. I would argue that the 8.5 sale of cerebus 1 that just sold for $850 a few weeks ago drags down the current value of that 9.0 to more in the $1500 range. "

 

Also if we add the Comiclink sale, then there was also a $1050 sale this year. Does that not count, even after the sale is no longer on the site?

 

I have already addressed the blue label staements as well.

There are fewer HG Blue labels so its not unheard of to have Blues go for more than Yellow when this happens. In this case the Blues have seemed outperformed the Yellows.

The last Yellow sale was 2012 9.0 at $1434. The following year it was $2500 in Blue and in 2005 it was $1750. Now I can say these are the reasons the book has been going up. But there seems to be more than one sale that seems to suggest that the blue label may have something to do with this.

 

Lackluster according to you? But what if the book has gone down then up in between your arbitrary timeline of 10 years, then what? At what point does it not become lackluster?

 

I make no claims of Overstreet values and how he comes to his conclusions.

I have already addressed all of your claims ad nauseum. You consider a $33 increase in price over a year's period in an 8.5 is something other than "flat", "stagnant", "menial", or "meaningless"? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

False claim regarding "addressed all of your claims ad nauseum".

You believe that a book that sold for $10.6K in 2004 and then $9k in 2014, with some zig zags in between that still left the book with a net loss of about 15% from 10 years ago is a book that's hot, in demand, and on the move? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

Never made any claims of hot, But I did state you were incorrect regarding a drop in value. So indeed your claims regarding only a 9.0 sale to support claims was incorrect.

You want to use an unverified "pending sale" on Comic Link as a "comp", and pretend the other 5 books or so in similar grades haven't been languishing on there for months with nothing but low ball offers that are in line with last year's prices or below? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

I have already shown why pending is meaningless on Comiclink, and by the way, it is no longer pending. Similar grades is a moot point. Low ball offers, moot. Glad I don't need to quote myself another time (thumbs u

You want to believe that a blue label book is more valuable than a file copy SS signed by the creator of the book? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

That's fine. You can disagree here. Clearly since there are limited sales.

Basically, you can go right on ahead believing whatever you need to believe, and studying that lone sale of 9.0 so you can feel good about a book that the market at large forgot about a long time ago. Because without that random, outlier 9.0 sale there would be a very insignificant price change in even that grade from 2005-2012. Which, again, is why I say that 9.0 is the one and only sale that even remotely helps you. (thumbs u

 

-J.

But its wrong everytime you state that only the 9.0 sale helps. The 9.4 at 9K in addition of a recent 9.0 sales helps determine the price of a high grade copy. If I only had the recent 9.0, then I would have a harder time making claims regarding current values.

 

A) You don't know if that sale on comic link ever closed or consummated either way. Further, (and regardless) it would not be a publicly available sale and will never be reported by GPA, even if it happened. And oh yeah, current offers on the same book in grade do kinda matter, as they are suggestive and representative of market trends and where the book is actually headed, don't-cha think?

 

B) The 9.0 is obviously an outlier since the book never showed an annual appreciation of more than about 2.5% the ten years prior in that grade. Take out that one outlier sale and the book is a complete dud for the last decade in pretty much all grades, top down.

 

C) I have never actually disputed Overstreet's value of 2100 in a 9.2. That is probably correct and what one would go for now. But a Hulk 181 in the same grade goes for more. So overstreet got that part wrong.

 

D) You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I for one certainly would not suggest investing your money into a short box of cerebus 1's anytime soon. As there seems to be very few interested buyers for the inordinately large amount of copies that are already available on the market. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Rip]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

 

Actually that part is true I made the error first then caught it.

 

Despite that it would most certainly effect the performance and analysis.

 

Define lackluster performance?

 

It wouldn't, because as I said the outlier sale of the blue label 9.0 cerebus 1 is the only bright spot that you have been hanging your hat on the entire time. The 8.0 and 8.5 sales this year kill you, the book does not triple in value from an 8.5-9.0, there has been no 9.2 sale recorded in years, and in its highest grade (9.4), there has been price deflation. This is not a book where there is any evidence that a blue label would command a premium over an SS file copy. That is merely speculation on your part. SS copies routinely sell for more than blue (right or wrong), take for example the Hulk 181 9.2 SS copy going for $3700 in march.

 

Lackluster performance means a book that has seen either stagnant and/or declining sales figures over a ten year period from its top grade down, with waning collector interest, in a book that was already niche to begin with.

 

Granted you may still have some old school collectors who want one of the handful of copies of it available in its top one or two grades, but the book obviously has its best days behind it, and barring some mainstream media push caused by a cartoon or something, that is unlikely change. And while I don't necessarily disagree with Overstreet's value of it placed at $2100, I do vehemently disagree with the value placed on an IH 181 of $2,000, because the book cannot be had for that price in a 9.2. Overstreet got it wrong, hence the original point of this thread.

 

-J.

 

I've already addressed your claims regarding the 9.0 being the only bright spot numerous times. Please do not keep stating this.

The 9.4 sale is not a price drop, its a price raise from the 2010 sale.

Why are we to only count the high sale of 2004, and why not address the 2009, and 2010 sales for 7.7K And its a blue not a yellow. A 2014 sale is a more current sale which better establishes its current value. So even if its a price drop from 2004, the point is moot regarding current values.

 

I've already addressed your circular statement regarding the 8.5 sales as well.

Third time posting this, I'll just cut and paste.

"But how could the recent 8.5 price drag the price down if the 8.5 went up from last year when the 8.5 sold for $820 and the 9.0 sold for $2500 within a two month time period?

Can we agree this statement is false where you claim:

"Going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that. I would argue that the 8.5 sale of cerebus 1 that just sold for $850 a few weeks ago drags down the current value of that 9.0 to more in the $1500 range. "

 

Also if we add the Comiclink sale, then there was also a $1050 sale this year. Does that not count, even after the sale is no longer on the site?

 

I have already addressed the blue label staements as well.

There are fewer HG Blue labels so its not unheard of to have Blues go for more than Yellow when this happens. In this case the Blues have seemed outperformed the Yellows.

The last Yellow sale was 2012 9.0 at $1434. The following year it was $2500 in Blue and in 2005 it was $1750. Now I can say these are the reasons the book has been going up. But there seems to be more than one sale that seems to suggest that the blue label may have something to do with this.

 

Lackluster according to you? But what if the book has gone down then up in between your arbitrary timeline of 10 years, then what? At what point does it not become lackluster?

 

I make no claims of Overstreet values and how he comes to his conclusions.

I have already addressed all of your claims ad nauseum. You consider a $33 increase in price over a year's period in an 8.5 is something other than "flat", "stagnant", "menial", or "meaningless"? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

False claim regarding "addressed all of your claims ad nauseum".

You believe that a book that sold for $10.6K in 2004 and then $9k in 2014, with some zig zags in between that still left the book with a net loss of about 15% from 10 years ago is a book that's hot, in demand, and on the move? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

Never made any claims of hot, But I did state you were incorrect regarding a drop in value. So indeed your claims regarding only a 9.0 sale to support claims was incorrect.

You want to use an unverified "pending sale" on Comic Link as a "comp", and pretend the other 5 books or so in similar grades haven't been languishing on there for months with nothing but low ball offers that are in line with last year's prices or below? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

 

I have already shown why pending is meaningless on Comiclink, and by the way, it is no longer pending. Similar grades is a moot point. Low ball offers, moot. Glad I don't need to quote myself another time (thumbs u

You want to believe that a blue label book is more valuable than a file copy SS signed by the creator of the book? Good for you, you're entitled to your opinion. But I disagree.

That's fine. You can disagree here. Clearly since there are limited sales.

Basically, you can go right on ahead believing whatever you need to believe, and studying that lone sale of 9.0 so you can feel good about a book that the market at large forgot about a long time ago. Because without that random, outlier 9.0 sale there would be a very insignificant price change in even that grade from 2005-2012. Which, again, is why I say that 9.0 is the one and only sale that even remotely helps you. (thumbs u

 

-J.

But its wrong everytime you state that only the 9.0 sale helps. The 9.4 at 9K in addition of a recent 9.0 sales helps determine the price of a high grade copy. If I only had the recent 9.0, then I would have a harder time making claims regarding current values.

 

A) You don't know if that sale on comic link ever closed or consummated either way. Further, (and regardless) it would not be a publicly available sale and will never be reported by GPA, even if it happened. And oh yeah, current offers on the same book in grade do kinda matter, as they are suggestive and representative of market trends and where the book is actually headed, don't-cha think?

 

B) The 9.0 is obviously an outlier since the book never showed an annual appreciation of more than about 2.5% the ten years prior in that grade. Take out that one outlier sale and the book is a complete dud for the last decade in pretty much all grades, top down.

 

C) I have never actually disputed Overstreet's value of 2100 in a 9.2. That is probably correct and what one would go for now. But a Hulk 181 in the same grade goes for more. So overstreet got that part wrong.

 

D) You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I for one certainly would not suggest investing your money into a short box of cerebus 1's anytime soon. As there seems to be very few interested buyers for the inordinately large amount of copies that are already available on the market. (thumbs u

 

-J.

A. Moving the goal posts. Your claim earlier "the sale is consummated when it no longer appears as "pending" on the site and the listing poofs." But we also know this is incorrect as well as sales are finished far before. Why are we now to add yet another extra scrutiny on this sale? So only GPA sales now? Do I have to call Comiclink now?

Ever sell a book before?

JDog, meet Comiclink.

http://www.comiclink.com/ You'll find low ball offers are common.

But since you begged the question the current offer is $850.

 

B. But if we look at the 9.4 sale then it seems to fall in line nicely.

 

C. Don't care what Overstreet claims.

 

D. Lots of rare books are on the MKT.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rip

[Gatsby77]

This thread is awesome.

 

At various points, you have

 

- called both the 2014 9.4 and 2013 9.0 sales "outliers" that should be discarded,

- missed, misinterpreted or ignored the (albeit slight) upward trend among 8.5 copies,

- argued that no Comiclink sales should be included because of the quirk of the "Sales Pending" language that they report for _all_ sold books,

- and used a blanket "lack of demand for lower grade copies" argument to support your incorrect assumptions regarding demand for high grade (i.e., 9.0+) copies.

 

And, to review, the count is now five folks who have posted _in this thread_ that they'd take a 9.2 Cerebus over a 9.2 Hulk, in addition to the >2:1 margin in favor of Cerebus among the 32 folks who've weighed in on the poll.

 

Keep on trucking, man!

[Rip]

This thread is awesome.

 

At various points, you have

 

- called both the 2014 9.4 and 2013 9.0 sales "outliers" that should be discarded,

- missed, misinterpreted or ignored the (albeit slight) upward trend among 8.5 copies,

- argued that no Comiclink sales should be included because of the quirk of the "Sales Pending" language that they report for _all_ sold books,

- and used a blanket "lack of demand for lower grade copies" argument to support your incorrect assumptions regarding demand for high grade (i.e., 9.0+) copies.

 

And, to review, the count is now five folks who have posted _in this thread_ that they'd take a 9.2 Cerebus over a 9.2 Hulk, in addition to the >2:1 margin in favor of Cerebus among the 32 folks who've weighed in on the poll.

 

Keep on trucking, man!

 

Don't forget moving the goal posts.

As even when the sales "go poof" on Comiclink, sales are not to be counted.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rip

[Prince Namor]

Its not unreasonable to say that non signed copies will likely sell for more than SS copies based on the sales data.

A 9.0 Blue sold for $2500 last year. A 9.2 yellow sold for $1,434 in 2012 and a signed file copy sold for $1725 in 2010.

A lot less buyers and sellers make the book a more questionable investment but, I'd take the Cerebus 1 for 9.0 and above in a Blue Label. And if a Cerebus 1 got a 9.2, it would be the only one, so yes I believe it would go for more than a Hulk 181 in 9.0-9.4, at least in blue.

 

 

It was your post quoted above, bother.

 

Although, ironically, it does not actually affect the analysis or conclusions in the least about the book's lackluster performance over the last ten years. *sorry*

 

-J.

 

Actually that part is true I made the error first then caught it.

 

Despite that it would most certainly effect the performance and analysis.

 

Define lackluster performance?

 

It wouldn't, because as I said the outlier sale of the blue label 9.0 cerebus 1 is the only bright spot that you have been hanging your hat on the entire time. The 8.0 and 8.5 sales this year kill you, the book does not triple in value from an 8.5-9.0, there has been no 9.2 sale recorded in years, and in its highest grade (9.4), there has been price deflation. This is not a book where there is any evidence that a blue label would command a premium over an SS file copy. That is merely speculation on your part. SS copies routinely sell for more than blue (right or wrong), take for example the Hulk 181 9.2 SS copy going for $3700 in march.

 

Lackluster performance means a book that has seen either stagnant and/or declining sales figures over a ten year period from its top grade down, with waning collector interest, in a book that was already niche to begin with.

 

Granted you may still have some old school collectors who want one of the handful of copies of it available in its top one or two grades, but the book obviously has its best days behind it, and barring some mainstream media push caused by a cartoon or something, that is unlikely change. And while I don't necessarily disagree with Overstreet's value of it placed at $2100, I do vehemently disagree with the value placed on an IH 181 of $2,000, because the book cannot be had for that price in a 9.2. Overstreet got it wrong, hence the original point of this thread.

 

-J.

 

[AlexanderM]

This thread is awesome.

 

At various points, you have

 

- called both the 2014 9.4 and 2013 9.0 sales "outliers" that should be discarded,

- missed, misinterpreted or ignored the (albeit slight) upward trend among 8.5 copies,

- argued that no Comiclink sales should be included because of the quirk of the "Sales Pending" language that they report for _all_ sold books,

- and used a blanket "lack of demand for lower grade copies" argument to support your incorrect assumptions regarding demand for high grade (i.e., 9.0+) copies.

 

And, to review, the count is now five folks who have posted _in this thread_ that they'd take a 9.2 Cerebus over a 9.2 Hulk, in addition to the >2:1 margin in favor of Cerebus among the 32 folks who've weighed in on the poll.

 

Keep on trucking, man!

 

This is not kinder garten where the one who hits hardest, shouts loudest, or has most friends is right.

 

Jay couldn't care less how many says the moon is made of cheese if he is not convinced that it is.

 

And he deserves respect for that when at the same time his arguments (at least for the most part) are solid.