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FF 67 or Thor 165?

Started by JollyComics,

173 posts in this topic

gaz973

gaz973

Posted
Posted
How FF 67 can be called a "cameo" when the character appears on the cover, has several pages of dialogue (including a full page panel), and is talked about throughout the story is beyond me. The fact that he doesn't emerge from the cocoon till the last page is irrelevant.

His cocoon appears on the cover, you don't see him on the cover.

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Forbush-Man

Forbush-Man

Posted
Posted
Back then, Thor 165 wasn't a key, just another chapter in the story, same as the Premieres.

 

Exactly. FF 66/67 was unquestionably the first appearance but, as Keith Contario pointed out in one of his Overstreet Update market reports, Marvel Premiere 1 was the most important book, as it's when Him became Warlock and (more importantly) received the Soul Gem, the source of his powers.

 

Thor 165-166 were just Him appearances, definitely 2nd fiddle to the FF books.

 

I stand by Marvel Premiere 1 as the first appearance of Warlock. The prior books are, at best, prototypes in the vein of the Sgt. Rock prototype issues prior to OAAW 83.

 

And no...I have no financial stake, as I owned all of these books & sold them all within the last six months.

 

No one's arguing MP1 is the 1st warlock - because it is. The first appearance of the character who later becomes warlock (Him) is FF67. Nuff said

 

 

 

If only people and the price guides referred to it as that.

 

Still no MP #1 in the poll. :baiting:

 

Yeah, I can't vote in the poll because it leaves the correct answer off; you get to vote on which HIM story is more important, and that's FF67. The two Thor appearances are just that,....appearances, Not keys. :sumo:

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted

ST 178 He becomes the Warlock we know-the Starlin Warlock with ties to Thanos etc that make him what he is. As 'Him' and Gil Kane Warlock he was still a nobody. It was Starlin who brought him to life.

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prez

prez

Posted
Posted
I thought we settled this already?

 

1. FF67 - 1st appearance / origin

2. Thor 165 - 1st COVER APPEARANCE

3. MP1 - 1st HIM BECOMES WARLOCK

 

I have all 3 copies so I say... Buy them all!!

 

Now it's settled.

 

Done

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CBT

CBT

Posted
Posted
Back then, Thor 165 wasn't a key, just another chapter in the story, same as the Premieres.

 

Exactly. FF 66/67 was unquestionably the first appearance but, as Keith Contario pointed out in one of his Overstreet Update market reports, Marvel Premiere 1 was the most important book, as it's when Him became Warlock and (more importantly) received the Soul Gem, the source of his powers.

 

Thor 165-166 were just Him appearances, definitely 2nd fiddle to the FF books.

 

I stand by Marvel Premiere 1 as the first appearance of Warlock. The prior books are, at best, prototypes in the vein of the Sgt. Rock prototype issues prior to OAAW 83.

 

And no...I have no financial stake, as I owned all of these books & sold them all within the last six months.

 

:applause:

 

board hyping has jacked up the thors imo

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted

You know how you can never find a book you're looking for? Went to go check condition on my Thor 165 and of course I found every other ish but.....165

sigh

 

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SquareChaos

SquareChaos

Posted
Posted
Well if he was officially named Warlock in Thor I can see why that's the hot book. That book is first High Evolutionary too right? And another first I can't remember.

 

It’s not named Warlock in Thor, and the first apperance of the High Evolutionary is #134, the first appearance of Man-Beast is #135.

All these events precede the developments Thomas would have conceived in Warlock #1.

 

Thor #164-165 are just an intermediary "interim" story where Thor clashes with "Him" while "Him" is still in search of his own path.

 

FF #66-67 (and partly #65, where the story somewhat starts in the background as Alicia is kidnapped by the scientist passing through the wall) is where everything starts and where Him/Warlock is "created". To say the Thors are more important just means one either has not even read the stories or doesn’t care for the character.

 

This is just my opinion, and I know a lot of it has been said before, but I just felt the need to reiterate. Not that this topic wasn't a dead horse before the thread was even opened :laugh:

 

I think this question should be very clear to anyone that sits down and reads all of the stories.

 

It is clear that 'Adam Warlock' is 'HIM' as far as the character goes. From the time he comes out of his shell in #67 all the way through to the Starlin run... the character's internal monologue and growth remain consistent - that of a super powered man with the number of life experiences equivalent to a child. A god-like being trying to find his way and his purpose. Basically every single early arc came out of this idea... that and the very conceit that saw the character created in the first place which was the concept of a 'god-like' being created via science to save mankind.

 

If all that matters is a characters power set and the name that people call them, this entire hobby would make damn near no sense except for when it comes to the big guns... and sometimes, even those guys make significant changes back and forth for a few runs here and there.

 

I personally pin this sort of decision on the consistency of the character in question. Unless there is a complete and total revision on the character's origin and motivations, then no matter what happens, it is the same character in my book... the story just moved in a different direction, but the players are the same. Does this mean Marvel Premiere is important? Yes, very much so... but it is no more than a major event in the progression of the character originally known as HIM.

 

Finally, as others have said, the market has clearly spoken on this and for the time being Thor #165 = ^^ , so this is all somewhat moot, but I still think the core of the character is what matters, and he is obviously the same 'character' from the early FFs, through the Thor arc [pretty crappy story frankly, especially when compared to the FFs and Starlin's work], and all the way in to his own series and Starlin's great works.

 

No other argument really resonates with me very deeply, but then this is a very subjective topic.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted
Back then, Thor 165 wasn't a key, just another chapter in the story, same as the Premieres.

 

Exactly. FF 66/67 was unquestionably the first appearance but, as Keith Contario pointed out in one of his Overstreet Update market reports, Marvel Premiere 1 was the most important book, as it's when Him became Warlock and (more importantly) received the Soul Gem, the source of his powers.

 

Thor 165-166 were just Him appearances, definitely 2nd fiddle to the FF books.

 

I stand by Marvel Premiere 1 as the first appearance of Warlock. The prior books are, at best, prototypes in the vein of the Sgt. Rock prototype issues prior to OAAW 83.

 

And no...I have no financial stake, as I owned all of these books & sold them all within the last six months.

 

:applause:

 

board hyping has jacked up the thors imo

 

I'm kinda waiting for that in my sales thread. I think everyone here has a copy of all three...

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SquareChaos

SquareChaos

Posted
Posted
Back then, Thor 165 wasn't a key, just another chapter in the story, same as the Premieres.

 

Exactly. FF 66/67 was unquestionably the first appearance but, as Keith Contario pointed out in one of his Overstreet Update market reports, Marvel Premiere 1 was the most important book, as it's when Him became Warlock and (more importantly) received the Soul Gem, the source of his powers.

 

Thor 165-166 were just Him appearances, definitely 2nd fiddle to the FF books.

 

I stand by Marvel Premiere 1 as the first appearance of Warlock. The prior books are, at best, prototypes in the vein of the Sgt. Rock prototype issues prior to OAAW 83.

 

And no...I have no financial stake, as I owned all of these books & sold them all within the last six months.

 

:applause:

 

board hyping has jacked up the thors imo

 

I'm kinda waiting for that in my sales thread. I think everyone here has a copy of all three...

 

I still need a nice MP #1, I have a real beater of a Thor #165 but I don't want a better one. I hate to say it, but that arc really sucks so I just don't care to pursue it even if it does somehow turn out to be "the" Warlock book to own.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted
Thor 165-166 were just Him appearances, definitely 2nd fiddle to the FF books.

 

That's actually what I thought... Until someone pointed out that I had a Thor 165 next to my two FF 67s in my old picture. I was a big Adam Warlock fan back then, so I must have felt that it deserved some prominence to be up on the wall next to his first appearance, Power of Warlock #1, Warlock #10 and ST #181 (not sure why I had that one up there...)

 

This really doesn't prove anything other than the argument can be made that the debate of FF67 vs Thor 165 has probably been going on for a long time.

 

This was my wall at my comic shop in 1996:

 

GENX04.jpg

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted
Back then, Thor 165 wasn't a key, just another chapter in the story, same as the Premieres.

 

Exactly. FF 66/67 was unquestionably the first appearance but, as Keith Contario pointed out in one of his Overstreet Update market reports, Marvel Premiere 1 was the most important book, as it's when Him became Warlock and (more importantly) received the Soul Gem, the source of his powers.

 

Thor 165-166 were just Him appearances, definitely 2nd fiddle to the FF books.

 

I stand by Marvel Premiere 1 as the first appearance of Warlock. The prior books are, at best, prototypes in the vein of the Sgt. Rock prototype issues prior to OAAW 83.

 

And no...I have no financial stake, as I owned all of these books & sold them all within the last six months.

 

:applause:

 

board hyping has jacked up the thors imo

 

I'm kinda waiting for that in my sales thread. I think everyone here has a copy of all three...

 

I still need a nice MP #1, I have a real beater of a Thor #165 but I don't want a better one. I hate to say it, but that arc really sucks so I just don't care to pursue it even if it does somehow turn out to be "the" Warlock book to own.

 

I got two solid VFs in my sales thread... :)

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