Will non-key issues become nearly worthless??

[FutureFlash]

I'm one of those back after 15 years being a collector in the mid 80s to through the 90s. I'd have to say it was the movies and the TWD show that sucked me back in.

 

Since I've started back up, I've given a bit of thought about the whole non-key issues being worth while in getting since you can get most stuff digital and in trades now. In the end I'd rather have the real thing. If non keys end up becoming worthless, then so be it, I'm only spending entertainment money. Besides the trades are never going to be worth anything anyway at least the comic has a chance.

 

Also I do see a lot of younger women and men buying comics these days, so maybe the popularity of comics on the upswing. The sales numbers that have been published seem to reflect that versus 10 years ago.

[Boba]

I don't really agree with much of this. I think the books are still highly desirable, and I still have many, many people completing runs and collections. There are always going to be people working on the runs they grew up reading.

 

If there are people who grow up collecting only keys, because they were told they were good investments, or because they saw a movie about them may or may not collect the issues of the books.

 

One consequence of all this stuff is that someone had to read the books to find the first appearance of Nebula and Livewire, etc.

 

And there is a whole untapped world of potential out there. Its called DC.

 

Amen that (thumbs u

[SquareChaos]

I know about comichron, but what I mean is, I don't see any tracking being done by anyone to see where these people came from. Comic sales went up and down when there were no movies to speak of, so it could be correlation, I don't know.

 

I have to think Marvel has done studies, even if they are not releasing them.

 

And, yeah, there are always new readers and collectors to the hobby, but we don't know why they're here. Again, there were new readers and collectors before the movies.

 

There's no up and down in the data since the first big-budget, heavily marketed movie push starting in 2000 (with X-men). It increases every year.

 

If you're looking for definitive proof, you're not going to find it publicly. It's pretty easy to surmise that billions of dollars in movie revenue is going to drive people to buy like products from the company that produces the characters to which those billion dollar movies are based upon.

 

Did the Twilight movies increase book sales? Yes. Did the Harry Potter movies increase book sales? Yes. It's called brand awareness, and it turns potential customers into paying customers because they are constantly immersed in the imagery and discussion of the brand.

 

Anyone with a small bit of interest can be easily turned onto the product becuase it's all around them. This is how advertising works, and while it's measureable - which I'm sure Marvel has statistics on that - it's not going to be information that is obtained for free, because it's costly to procure.

 

If you choose to be skeptical, you're in the minority - since there is a wide variety of evidence showing that comic books are more on-topic and profitable now that they have been in the past. Just because the specific data you want to see isn't available does not mean that there's some underhanded misconception at work here. Movies have increased the awareness of comics and driven up revenue.

 

I do hope you're correct. However I don't personally believe this to be the case. I do believe people may buy a trade or three based on enjoying a movie but I do not think it pulls many of them in to the hobby beyond that.

 

I also think comparing the popular book franchises to the comics is an apple to oranges. Comics are notoriously difficult to follow. The numbering system is terrible and getting a "complete" story is nearly impossible to a new reader. The hobby is anything but newbie friendly and the industry response to that is to basically just print a new 1 every now and then.

 

Anyway my opinion is basically made up - I absolutely could be wrong and I sort of hope I am.

[kimik]

I do 10+ comic conventions a year as a seller/ vendor and I am definitely seeing new buyers of comicbooks. In fact I am seeing that a strong percentage of my buyers are female under age 25.

 

From your standpoint do you see a weakening in demand for non-key books or was the demand never really there for a Spiderman 172 or an Avengers 115 so its hard to say?

 

I am part of the posse that does shows with Artboy99.

 

To answer your questions:

 

Keys and 1st apps sell steadily. Outside of top tier titles, you have to discount common/non-key books to sell them.

 

WRT female collectors, it is a mix. Harley Quinn is by far the best selling book with them, followed by some other new 52 titles, but I am noticing a number that are chasing older books as well.

 

That being said, all you have to do to make $$$$ is buy a stack of the latest Harley issues from a LCS the day before the show, put them out at double to tripple cover, and watch them fly.

[ItsJustRyan]

I believe we are in a current hot trend bubble.

 

 

It's been a bubble for more than two years now (they've been talking about it since before I got here).

 

When does it get shifted from being labeled a "bubble" to being labeled (more correctly) a trend?

 

 

[SquareChaos]

I know about comichron, but what I mean is, I don't see any tracking being done by anyone to see where these people came from. Comic sales went up and down when there were no movies to speak of, so it could be correlation, I don't know.

 

I have to think Marvel has done studies, even if they are not releasing them.

 

And, yeah, there are always new readers and collectors to the hobby, but we don't know why they're here. Again, there were new readers and collectors before the movies.

 

All I have is my own confirmation bias-based story - I've never met anyone that was a collector that said they got into it due to the Avengers or Iron Man movies, but I'm sure they're out there. One may even be reading this now and preparing to respond!

 

I'm not sure about new collectors, but I'm sure that the movies have gotten some people who collected back in the 70's and 80's back into the fold. You can see many people saying as much on the boards when they tell how they got back into collecting in the last 15 years. "I saw the X-Men movie/Spiderman Movie/Batman Begins movie/Amazing Spiderman movie and thought of those old comics I used to have. Thought I'd see if I could pick them back up and here I am 14/12/9/2 years later..." I myself collected in the 70's and 80's even owning a comics store in the late 80's then got out of it in the 90's until I got the bug in the early 2000's. A third of that was because of finding the old collection in the basement, a third of that was because of having a bit more extra money, and a third of that was because some of the great movies coming out at the time.

 

I agree with the statement that the public awareness brings a lot of us "home again". I think that would be hard to argue against. Still... those people already had the bug at one point. It isn't quite the same as bringing in new blood.

[vaillant]

The definition of "key" books is now more problematic than before. It no longer corresponds to what a "key" book should be, according to its content.

 

If one loves the characters and what they represented, a huge number of "key" books and runs are not those the market of collectors demand.

 

All in all "collectors" in a certain vein are responsible of all this damage.

Because, in the long term, it will be just damage, at least if people will continue to be so acritical to reason in terms of "keys" without a care.

[CBT]

I don't really agree with much of this. I think the books are still highly desirable, and I still have many, many people completing runs and collections. There are always going to be people working on the runs they grew up reading.

 

And there is a whole untapped world of potential out there. Its called DC.

 

 

Well said, except regarding the last sentence, i dont think people want to see movies where a color is a super power

[Limited66]

If Gaurdians of the Galaxy and the appearance of Deathlok in Agents of Shield can make books that no one really thought of as "keys" per se into hotter books, who knows what the future could hold. Maybe it won't last, but maybe it will. So, hold onto that Proty 1st app!

[Tony S]

I don't really agree with much of this. I think the books are still highly desirable, and I still have many, many people completing runs and collections. There are always going to be people working on the runs they grew up reading.

 

If there are people who grow up collecting only keys, because they were told they were good investments, or because they saw a movie about them may or may not collect the issues of the books.

 

One consequence of all this stuff is that someone had to read the books to find the first appearance of Nebula and Livewire, etc.

 

And there is a whole untapped world of potential out there. Its called DC.

 

Amen that (thumbs u

 

Add Gold Key to that "world of untapped potential" as well as several others. Last year, DreamWorks purchased the Classics Media Library. This includes the rights to Magnus, Robot Fighter, Doctor Solar, Turok, Little Lulu, Lassie, Underdog and Frostie the Snowman from Gold Key. Other notables include Mr. Magoo, Casper, Richie Rich, He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, Rocky & Bullwinkle, George of the Jungle and Tracy.

 

I think it is a safe bet that DreamWorks DOES NOT plan on publishing comic books. We are looking at films down the road. Some of those characters have already had films (Casper, Richie Rich, George of the Jungle, Tracy for instance) Others look like GREAT movie candidates. Turok IMO isa no-brainer as far as a movie goes. Masters of the Universe too.

 

A lot more than DC out there that has untapped potential.

[Westy Steve]

To answer the OP's question....No...non-keys won't go worthless. Look at coin collecting as an analogy. I can go to shows and see lots of people trying to fill the holes in their collections...that creates demand. But also, there are some old coins that are super hard to find in problem free condition in series. For example, try to collect Batman #100 to #200 in VF. It would take you a long, long time. That level of difficulty is why people pay....they pay to avoid the wait...which is what keeps prices up.

 

And as for this being a bubble. I've observed that prices are almost exactly triple of what they were when I first got into collecting key comics really heavily. I'm hard pressed to find any that got left behind, regardless of whether they had a movie or not. And I don't see that tripling is unexpected for the amount of time.

 

FWIW, I subscribe to a group on Facebook that has a lot of collectors who are not as well versed as some of us are. It's neat to see what they are interested in. Things that many of us consider drek are coveted. These collectors are younger than most here...but I think the future is in good hands.

[1950's war comics]

the coin hobby can give some insight to this discussion, almost all coins since 1950 were saved in huge quantity but over the years many have been melted or spent and now they are finding out that many once common coins are not so anymore in higher grade example: 1983 uncirculated washington quarter rolls @ $200.00 (I think that is the year)

so even though common non key issues might taper off in popularity, the day will come when many particular issues will become somewhat rare due to fires, floods, etc, etc

the bad news is that it will take another lifetime for this to be realized so at least our grandkids might reap the benefit !!

[WebSlinger]

 

FWIW, I subscribe to a group on Facebook that has a lot of collectors who are not as well versed as some of us are. It's neat to see what they are interested in. Things that many of us consider drek are coveted. These collectors are younger than most here...but I think the future is in good hands.

 

I can't believe the stuff kids buy, and even more surprised by the stuff they have no idea what it is and just pass by it. It makes me wonder if in 20 years or whatever, will anyone really be looking for these old non-key books??

[RockMyAmadeus]

the coin hobby can give some insight to this discussion, almost all coins since 1950 were saved in huge quantity but over the years many have been melted or spent and now they are finding out that many once common coins are not so anymore in higher grade example: 1983 uncirculated washington quarter rolls @ $200.00 (I think that is the year)

so even though common non key issues might taper off in popularity, the day will come when many particular issues will become somewhat rare due to fires, floods, etc, etc

the bad news is that it will take another lifetime for this to be realized so at least our grandkids might reap the benefit !!

 

In 1982 and 1983, the US Mint did not make mint sets, and the only avenue for getting these was in circulation, which reduced most of them to AU or worse.

 

That's the specific reason why 1983 25c is worth so much. A non-BU example is worth whatever 25c will buy.

[FineCollector]

The erosion of the price on non-keys is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If everyone keeps saying non-keys aren't worth anything, people who are on the fence will agree with you, and not buy books they might have bought. We're the experts, right? Why wouldn't they listen to us?

 

I don't doubt that guys like Mile High are selling non-key drek for real money. He's sorted them, he's graded them (not necessarily accurately...), probably even put a bag and a board on them. I'm tired of crawling under tables looking through boxes that are barely alphabetized, where the books are rolling around until they're VGs. I'm paying good money for clean back issues, and I don't have a store within driving distance that even knows if they have the issues I need or not. It's frustrating.

 

If you're putting out unsorted boxes at 25 cents apiece and complaining that there's no money in non-key issues, the fault is entirely your own. If you're swimming in these issues, you must have enough books to make sets, or have clean runs of singles to pick from? Make the books appealing to buy, and people will spend. Otherwise, have fun jousting with everyone for a copy of FF 45... best of luck to you.

[thehumantorch]

The movies are great for visibility, but if they don't bring in new readers, and all they do is drive keys out of the reach of most collectors, then overall I don't know how it could be anything but detrimental.

 

You don't have to buy expensive books to be a comic book fan. And I believe the movies are bringing new readers, but the younger demographic are also going to gravitate to reading books digitally.

 

I remember back when I was 11 years old, I wasn't concerned with the fact I couldn't pay for a Daredevil #1 with my allowance. I was more concerned about reading the new issue. I'm sure that part of the hobby hasn't changed.

 

I've never seen a conclusive argument that shows the movies are bringing in new readers, but it is a hard thing to track unless someone is specifically studying it.

 

 

It's happening.

 

We're getting tons of customers who've seen the tv shows and movies, they love certain characters and now they want to check out the comic. I suspect many of them have never read a print comic before. Some will buy a few comics and move on. Some will like a few of the comics and start collecting. Some will move on to keys and first appearances.

[Dale Roberts]

I do 10+ comic conventions a year as a seller/ vendor and I am definitely seeing new buyers of comicbooks. In fact I am seeing that a strong percentage of my buyers are female under age 25.

 

From your standpoint do you see a weakening in demand for non-key books or was the demand never really there for a Spiderman 172 or an Avengers 115 so its hard to say?

 

I am part of the posse that does shows with Artboy99.

 

To answer your questions:

 

Keys and 1st apps sell steadily. Outside of top tier titles, you have to discount common/non-key books to sell them.

 

WRT female collectors, it is a mix. Harley Quinn is by far the best selling book with them, followed by some other new 52 titles, but I am noticing a number that are chasing older books as well.

 

That being said, all you have to do to make $$$$ is buy a stack of the latest Harley issues from a LCS the day before the show, put them out at double to tripple cover, and watch them fly.

 

Well, I guess it depends on what books you are talking about. I don't have to discount non key silver age books to sell them. In fact, I have to restock stuff every show, and some shows, I restock a lot.

 

If you are talking about 1980s and 1990s books, then I would pretty much agree with you. But there time is coming.

[Heronext]

Finally, a thread about comic books

[1Cool]

I do 10+ comic conventions a year as a seller/ vendor and I am definitely seeing new buyers of comicbooks. In fact I am seeing that a strong percentage of my buyers are female under age 25.

 

From your standpoint do you see a weakening in demand for non-key books or was the demand never really there for a Spiderman 172 or an Avengers 115 so its hard to say?

 

I am part of the posse that does shows with Artboy99.

 

To answer your questions:

 

Keys and 1st apps sell steadily. Outside of top tier titles, you have to discount common/non-key books to sell them.

 

WRT female collectors, it is a mix. Harley Quinn is by far the best selling book with them, followed by some other new 52 titles, but I am noticing a number that are chasing older books as well.

 

That being said, all you have to do to make $$$$ is buy a stack of the latest Harley issues from a LCS the day before the show, put them out at double to tripple cover, and watch them fly.

 

Well, I guess it depends on what books you are talking about. I don't have to discount non key silver age books to sell them. In fact, I have to restock stuff every show, and some shows, I restock a lot.

 

If you are talking about 1980s and 1990s books, then I would pretty much agree with you. But there time is coming.

 

What do you think the other dealers who expressed this concern in the OPG are doing wrong. I see most dealers at the cons having to discount their prices by 30% or more to get people to look through their boxes of back stock. And I seem to remember you having to discount a lot of the generic books in your sales thread and the hotter key books were grabbed in minutes. And you are a mega dealer - most of us don't have your customer base you have.

[Dale Roberts]

I do 10+ comic conventions a year as a seller/ vendor and I am definitely seeing new buyers of comicbooks. In fact I am seeing that a strong percentage of my buyers are female under age 25.

 

From your standpoint do you see a weakening in demand for non-key books or was the demand never really there for a Spiderman 172 or an Avengers 115 so its hard to say?

 

I am part of the posse that does shows with Artboy99.

 

To answer your questions:

 

Keys and 1st apps sell steadily. Outside of top tier titles, you have to discount common/non-key books to sell them.

 

WRT female collectors, it is a mix. Harley Quinn is by far the best selling book with them, followed by some other new 52 titles, but I am noticing a number that are chasing older books as well.

 

That being said, all you have to do to make $$$$ is buy a stack of the latest Harley issues from a LCS the day before the show, put them out at double to tripple cover, and watch them fly.

 

Well, I guess it depends on what books you are talking about. I don't have to discount non key silver age books to sell them. In fact, I have to restock stuff every show, and some shows, I restock a lot.

 

If you are talking about 1980s and 1990s books, then I would pretty much agree with you. But there time is coming.

 

What do you think the other dealers who expressed this concern in the OPG are doing wrong. I see most dealers at the cons having to discount their prices by 30% or more to get people to look through their boxes of back stock. And I seem to remember you having to discount a lot of the generic books in your sales thread and the hotter key books were grabbed in minutes. And you are a mega dealer - most of us don't have your customer base you have.

 

Honestly, I am not going to come on here and talk about what other dealers are doing wrong. Its disrespectful to them, and if there is something that I think I am doing better than them, I don't see any reason to help the competition. Bob, Harley, Jamie, Ted, Richard, JHV, and numerous other guys don't have trouble selling books.