When will the New Mutants 98 bubble burst? 1 1

[awe4one]

The CGC boards...where you are not only held to things you said, but may have changed your mind about later, from a decade ago...you're also held to the things you DIDN'T say.

 

 

Not complaining, the alternative, where no one is ever held to anything they say, is much, much worse.

 

 

So now you admit you were wrong?

 

Jim

[Gatsby77]

Are you aware, for example, that the Capital City order numbers for X-Men #273, the book that came out the same month as NM #98, are nearly DOUBLE NM #98's numbers? And that Spiderman #7, also the same month, are nearly quadruple? And that was before the madness really kicked into high gear.

 

Yeah, but c'mon, man. Spider-Man #7 had Ghost Rider in it! It deserved to have that print run, son!

[VintageComics]

That's the Jim I remember.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

That is a mischaracterization. RMA's position has been to refute broad statements like "NM98 had a massive print run." It did not, for the time frame in which it debuted.

 

No. NM98 was a hot comic at the time. All X-comics were. He claimed that they weren't until #100. That's untrue. 98 sold really well and is demonstrated by the number of HG copies graded and sold. This comic is relatively common and not an overlooked comic. Did people then know Deadpool would be what he is today? No. But the comic sold really well at the time and the remanents are now being shown. He denied that years ago.

 

Jim

 

Not correct, and, as always, context is everything.

 

#98 was a "hot comic" like all New Mutants at the time were hot comics. You won't find a quote of me saying "New Mutants #98 wasn't a hot comic", or something along those lines (and, of course, what does "hot" actually mean? It's useless when discussing sales and the like.)

 

In this thread, you'll find fairly exhaustive analyses of this book, by myself and others, giving it context of where it was at the time, relative to everything happening around it.

 

Are you aware, for example, that the Capital City order numbers for X-Men #273, the book that came out the same month as NM #98, are nearly DOUBLE NM #98's numbers? And that Spiderman #7, also the same month, are nearly quadruple? And that was before the madness really kicked into high gear.

 

You'll have to find the exact quote of mine you're referring to. I suspect you won't find it, because I've never said anything like that, much less denied that it sold really well.

 

Sorry. Maybe you're thinking of someone else...?

 

No. You implied it was a comic that didn't find much distribution. If I remember right it was barely a 100K. You implied no one was watching the title and as a result was rarer. That is definitely not true. Comic dealers were buying boatloads of X-Marvel comics since Wolverine #1 came out. Wish Arch could resurrect the thread to show the hypo racy.

 

Jim

 

Ok.

 

Would you mind finding that post?

 

I'm not sure why you're calling me a hypocrite. I suspect you have either A. the person confused, or B. the subject confused.

 

But, please, if you could find that post, let's examine what I said, in context.

 

That's a reasonable request, is it not...?

 

(PS. Comic dealers were buying boatloads of X-Marvel comics since Paul Smith came out.)

[RockMyAmadeus]

Are you aware, for example, that the Capital City order numbers for X-Men #273, the book that came out the same month as NM #98, are nearly DOUBLE NM #98's numbers? And that Spiderman #7, also the same month, are nearly quadruple? And that was before the madness really kicked into high gear.

 

Yeah, but c'mon, man. Spider-Man #7 had Ghost Rider in it! It deserved to have that print run, son!

 

Pffft. Spiderman #7 had HOBGOBLIN in it.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The CGC boards...where you are not only held to things you said, but may have changed your mind about later, from a decade ago...you're also held to the things you DIDN'T say.

 

 

Not complaining, the alternative, where no one is ever held to anything they say, is much, much worse.

 

 

So now you admit you were wrong?

 

Jim

 

I'd like to see the post(s) you're referring to. If I was wrong about something, I'd like the opportunity to be corrected.

 

However, I'm pretty sure that I've been consistent about this subject for the entire duration of my time here.

 

Who knows, I could be wrong.

 

But if you could please post the pertinent comments, let's examine them.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Would you mind finding that post?

 

[awe4one]

That is a mischaracterization. RMA's position has been to refute broad statements like "NM98 had a massive print run." It did not, for the time frame in which it debuted.

 

No. NM98 was a hot comic at the time. All X-comics were. He claimed that they weren't until #100. That's untrue. 98 sold really well and is demonstrated by the number of HG copies graded and sold. This comic is relatively common and not an overlooked comic. Did people then know Deadpool would be what he is today? No. But the comic sold really well at the time and the remanents are now being shown. He denied that years ago.

 

Jim

 

Not correct, and, as always, context is everything.

 

#98 was a "hot comic" like all New Mutants at the time were hot comics. You won't find a quote of me saying "New Mutants #98 wasn't a hot comic", or something along those lines (and, of course, what does "hot" actually mean? It's useless when discussing sales and the like.)

 

In this thread, you'll find fairly exhaustive analyses of this book, by myself and others, giving it context of where it was at the time, relative to everything happening around it.

 

Are you aware, for example, that the Capital City order numbers for X-Men #273, the book that came out the same month as NM #98, are nearly DOUBLE NM #98's numbers? And that Spiderman #7, also the same month, are nearly quadruple? And that was before the madness really kicked into high gear.

 

You'll have to find the exact quote of mine you're referring to. I suspect you won't find it, because I've never said anything like that, much less denied that it sold really well.

 

Sorry. Maybe you're thinking of someone else...?

 

No. You implied it was a comic that didn't find much distribution. If I remember right it was barely a 100K. You implied no one was watching the title and as a result was rarer. That is definitely not true. Comic dealers were buying boatloads of X-Marvel comics since Wolverine #1 came out. Wish Arch could resurrect the thread to show the hypo racy.

 

Jim

 

Ok.

 

Would you mind finding that post?

 

I'm not sure why you're calling me a hypocrite. I suspect you have either A. the person confused, or B. the subject confused.

 

But, please, if you could find that post, let's examine what I said, in context.

 

That's a reasonable request, is it not...?

 

CGC has purged the archives. Can't pull it up but you and I know it's true. And those who have been here awhile. Don't try the cop "if you can't find the post" it's untrue. You were very adamant about it at the time and should own up to it. Unless you have Alzheimer's it's not difficult to remember.

 

Jim

[bababooey]

Would you mind finding that post?

 

That link isn't working.

[RockMyAmadeus]

That is a mischaracterization. RMA's position has been to refute broad statements like "NM98 had a massive print run." It did not, for the time frame in which it debuted.

 

No. NM98 was a hot comic at the time. All X-comics were. He claimed that they weren't until #100. That's untrue. 98 sold really well and is demonstrated by the number of HG copies graded and sold. This comic is relatively common and not an overlooked comic. Did people then know Deadpool would be what he is today? No. But the comic sold really well at the time and the remanents are now being shown. He denied that years ago.

 

Jim

 

Not correct, and, as always, context is everything.

 

#98 was a "hot comic" like all New Mutants at the time were hot comics. You won't find a quote of me saying "New Mutants #98 wasn't a hot comic", or something along those lines (and, of course, what does "hot" actually mean? It's useless when discussing sales and the like.)

 

In this thread, you'll find fairly exhaustive analyses of this book, by myself and others, giving it context of where it was at the time, relative to everything happening around it.

 

Are you aware, for example, that the Capital City order numbers for X-Men #273, the book that came out the same month as NM #98, are nearly DOUBLE NM #98's numbers? And that Spiderman #7, also the same month, are nearly quadruple? And that was before the madness really kicked into high gear.

 

You'll have to find the exact quote of mine you're referring to. I suspect you won't find it, because I've never said anything like that, much less denied that it sold really well.

 

Sorry. Maybe you're thinking of someone else...?

 

No. You implied it was a comic that didn't find much distribution. If I remember right it was barely a 100K. You implied no one was watching the title and as a result was rarer. That is definitely not true. Comic dealers were buying boatloads of X-Marvel comics since Wolverine #1 came out. Wish Arch could resurrect the thread to show the hypo racy.

 

Jim

 

Ok.

 

Would you mind finding that post?

 

I'm not sure why you're calling me a hypocrite. I suspect you have either A. the person confused, or B. the subject confused.

 

But, please, if you could find that post, let's examine what I said, in context.

 

That's a reasonable request, is it not...?

 

CGC has purged the archives. Can't pull it up but you and I know it's true. And those who have been here awhile. Don't try the cop "if you can't find the post" it's untrue. You were very adamant about it at the time and should own up to it. Unless you have Alzheimer's it's not difficult to remember.

 

Jim

 

Ok. Remember that time when you insisted that Spiderman first appeared in Action Comics #1? Yes, you were totally adamant about it, I remember. You also implied that Venom's first appearance was in Pep #47, via a flashback retcon. He and Snoopy were tracking down the Phantom Stranger, as I recall you saying, and you insisted that Lois Lane was married to Batman, which made her Lois Lane-Wayne.

 

 

I don't have an issue with you, Jim, but if you can't find what I said, how can you POSSIBLY, in good conscience, make claims about it? I say a lot of things, and I say a lot of things with nuance. The devil is in the details. What is a "high print run" in this context, is a "tiny print run" in that one. But without knowing the context of the discussion, neither you nor I can possibly know what exactly was said, by who, why, and how.

 

So, no, I don't "admit I was wrong" to a conversation you think you remember from "years ago" but cannot provide the actual quotes to, and I wouldn't dream of asking anyone else to do the same.

 

That's not at all reasonable.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's possible that the book you're referring to was actually New Mutants #87, which DID have a much lower print run/distribution than later issues. The "100k" figure, while inaccurate, could be based on the 110k figure that was tossed around (I think even by Liefeld) in the early 90's.

 

 

[the blob]

That is a mischaracterization. RMA's position has been to refute broad statements like "NM98 had a massive print run." It did not, for the time frame in which it debuted.

 

No. NM98 was a hot comic at the time. All X-comics were. He claimed that they weren't until #100. That's untrue. 98 sold really well and is demonstrated by the number of HG copies graded and sold. This comic is relatively common and not an overlooked comic. Did people then know Deadpool would be what he is today? No. But the comic sold really well at the time and the remanents are now being shown. He denied that years ago.

 

Jim

 

Oy gavolt...NM 98 had a print-run in line with a Marvel second tier title at the time, not X-Men, Spidey, etc.

 

So, plenty of copies to go around, but not a crazy amount. Big by today's standards, sure.

[the blob]

No. You implied it was a comic that didn't find much distribution. If I remember right it was barely a 100K. You implied no one was watching the title and as a result was rarer. That is definitely not true. Comic dealers were buying boatloads of X-Marvel comics since Wolverine #1 came out. Wish Arch could resurrect the thread to show the hypo racy.

 

---------

 

The print run numbers I think were conceded to be 250K or so (not high by Marvel early 90s standards, but not a title on the brink of being cancelled either), but a chunk of that were newsstand copies and it may not have been so easy to figure out how many got returned.

Edited March 10, 2016 by the blob

[Lazyboy]

That is a mischaracterization. RMA's position has been to refute broad statements like "NM98 had a massive print run." It did not, for the time frame in which it debuted.

 

No. NM98 was a hot comic at the time. All X-comics were. He claimed that they weren't until #100. That's untrue. 98 sold really well and is demonstrated by the number of HG copies graded and sold. This comic is relatively common and not an overlooked comic. Did people then know Deadpool would be what he is today? No. But the comic sold really well at the time and the remanents are now being shown. He denied that years ago.

 

Jim

 

Not correct, and, as always, context is everything.

 

#98 was a "hot comic" like all New Mutants at the time were hot comics. You won't find a quote of me saying "New Mutants #98 wasn't a hot comic", or something along those lines (and, of course, what does "hot" actually mean? It's useless when discussing sales and the like.)

 

In this thread, you'll find fairly exhaustive analyses of this book, by myself and others, giving it context of where it was at the time, relative to everything happening around it.

 

Are you aware, for example, that the Capital City order numbers for X-Men #273, the book that came out the same month as NM #98, are nearly DOUBLE NM #98's numbers? And that Spiderman #7, also the same month, are nearly quadruple? And that was before the madness really kicked into high gear.

 

You'll have to find the exact quote of mine you're referring to. I suspect you won't find it, because I've never said anything like that, much less denied that it sold really well.

 

Sorry. Maybe you're thinking of someone else...?

 

No. You implied it was a comic that didn't find much distribution. If I remember right it was barely a 100K. You implied no one was watching the title and as a result was rarer. That is definitely not true. Comic dealers were buying boatloads of X-Marvel comics since Wolverine #1 came out.

 

Statements of Ownership:

from New Mutants 89 - Avg. Print Run: 313,910 Avg. Distribution: 210,460

from New Mutants 99 - Avg. Print Run: 289,387 Avg. Distribution: 182,599

 

Wish Arch could resurrect the thread to show the hypo racy.

 

Jim

 

Find it yourself. The boards' native search function may does suck, but a hypothetical thread where RMA said NM98 had a tiny print run/low distribution wasn't likely "deleted" (moved to moderation section). You don't need Arch.

 

[the blob]

from New Mutants 89 - Avg. Print Run: 313,910 Avg. Distribution: 210,460

from New Mutants 99 - Avg. Print Run: 289,387 Avg. Distribution: 182,599

 

-------

 

that would imply that NM was selling worse during liefield's run than before. that doesn't make a lot of sense.

[the blob]

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7162146#Post7162146

 

the thread we are discussing is still on the first page in copper and was last posted to on 2/27!!

[awe4one]

It's possible that the book you're referring to was actually New Mutants #87, which DID have a much lower print run/distribution than later issues. The "100k" figure, while inaccurate, could be based on the 110k figure that was tossed around (I think even by Liefeld) in the early 90's.

 

 

Nope #98. You defended, hotly, where it was a bottom dweller that wasn't "out there". Ridiculous. Your case was wildly_fanciful_statement at the time and still. Did you have a case of the comics at the time? Because others did. I can tell many stories of the Mannheim shows where there stacks of comics. Arch. Where are you? Release that discussion. If not for a historical perspective.

 

Jim

[RockMyAmadeus]

from New Mutants 89 - Avg. Print Run: 313,910 Avg. Distribution: 210,460

from New Mutants 99 - Avg. Print Run: 289,387 Avg. Distribution: 182,599

 

-------

 

that would imply that NM was selling worse during liefield's run than before. that doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

It was. Remember, that SOO only covers up to issue #96, and includes newsstand returns. New Mutants was not an ultra hot seller, and the first Liefeld book to crack 500,000 copies printed was #100.

 

And, of course, those are averages. On average, the book's sales continued to steadily decline...about 13% that year....until you get to X-Tinction Agenda, but that would not have contained #97 (which had a higher print run than #98), or the rest of the run.

[VintageComics]

Arch. Where are you? Release that discussion. If not for a historical perspective.

 

There was a time when Arch actually hung around here. You'd be lucky to PM him and get a reply within a week now a days.

[the blob]

"Cap City*** for issues cover dated 2/91:

 

New Mutants #98 - 55,200

 

Alpha Flight #93 - 21,400

 

Excalibur #34 - 37,400 (PS. Excalibur numbers blew New Mutants out of the water for all of 1989 and half of 1990.)

 

West Coast Avengers #67 - 28,500

 

Conan #241 - 11,800

 

Thor #429 - 36,000

 

Daredevil #289 - 25,200

 

Captain America #382 - 28,800

 

Iron Man #265 - 31,800

 

You are comparing a title that WAS just coming off an incredibly successful crossover, was gaining a lot of popularity because of Cable and Liefeld, and was a mutant title. Comparing it to the absolute dregs of the Marvel line at the time doesn't say much, but it does say something that the Cap City orders for NM #98 were only about double those.

 

***Cap City accounted for about 20-30% of the market at this point."

 

The above puts it in perspective. NM 98 was 1/2 - 1/4 of "hot" titles, but it was beating up a number of mainstream titles that none of us would associate with being uncommon.