1st Teen Titans 3 3

[nearmint]

It's Friday night gents...... youse guys need to go out and scout some tush..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Pretty sure Jesus didn't talk that way about women.

 

Maybe. But he totally hoarded BB54s, so I guess we know where he stands.

[HighStakesComics]

It's Friday night gents...... youse guys need to go out and scout some tush..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Pretty sure Jesus didn't talk that way about women.

 

Maybe. But he totally hoarded BB54s, so I guess we know where he stands.

 

Since the Gospel of Matthew kicks off the New Testament, I can see Jesus being more of a BB 60 guy, considering it precedes many of the older gospels in the bible that were written before it.

 

Yes, this thread has been going on for so long that this was actually touched upon once before, roughly 30 or so pages ago

[jimjum12]

It's Friday night gents...... youse guys need to go out and scout some tush..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Pretty sure Jesus didn't talk that way about women.

 

Maybe. But he totally hoarded BB54s, so I guess we know where he stands.

 

Since the Gospel of Matthew kicks off the New Testament, I can see Jesus being more of a BB 60 guy, considering it precedes many of the older gospels in the bible that were written before it.

 

Yes, this thread has been going on for so long that this was actually touched upon once before, roughly 30 or so pages ago

 

..... was that 30 pages A.D. or B.C.? GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[HighStakesComics]

Shouldn't you be out on the town trying to pull some wool tonight, Jimbo?

[jimjum12]

I've got my gal, already. She bought a NM run of Strange Tales (Dr. Strange issues...) at an early 80's Chicago Con for $ 150 ........ that's my baby GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Sqeggs]

It's Friday night gents...... youse guys need to go out and scout some tush..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Pretty sure Jesus didn't talk that way about women.

 

Maybe. But he totally hoarded BB54s, so I guess we know where he stands.

 

Since the Gospel of Matthew kicks off the New Testament, I can see Jesus being more of a BB 60 guy, considering it precedes many of the older gospels in the bible that were written before it.

 

Yes, this thread has been going on for so long that this was actually touched upon once before, roughly 30 or so pages ago

 

Probably only Mark was written before Matthew, with Luke being written about the same time, and John significantly later.

 

Some theologians argue, though, that in Mark the Apostles are just 12 guys. Their first appearance as a team is in Matthew.

[HighStakesComics]

It's Friday night gents...... youse guys need to go out and scout some tush..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Pretty sure Jesus didn't talk that way about women.

 

Maybe. But he totally hoarded BB54s, so I guess we know where he stands.

 

Since the Gospel of Matthew kicks off the New Testament, I can see Jesus being more of a BB 60 guy, considering it precedes many of the older gospels in the bible that were written before it.

 

Yes, this thread has been going on for so long that this was actually touched upon once before, roughly 30 or so pages ago

 

Probably only Mark was written before Matthew, with Luke being written about the same time, and John significantly later.

 

Some theologians argue, though, that in Mark the Apostles are just 12 guys. Their first appearance as a team is in Matthew.

 

As well they should. Why? Because Matthew casts away any doubt.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I should not get involved, but just this one thing.

 

Keep in mind I have not read this entire thread (who has time for that) - but doesn't the last page posted of BB54 proclaim "Once again a startling new team of DC heroes has triumphed!"

 

 

This has been addressed, as you probably guessed.

 

DC was using the term "team" at this time to describe the team-ups in this title. They didn't switch to "team-up" until later.

 

For example, here's an ad for the very first team-up, in #50, describing how every issue of the title is going to feature a new "team":

 

 

 

Incorrect. The above ad you link discusses the concept of having "two heroes," "teamed' together. Which is different than announcing a "new team" of superheros as we see in the last panel of BB54 -- a comic which clearly falls outside the concept announced this ad which is limited to "two heroes from the DC hall of fame."

 

This isn't really the case. The idea wasn't "two heroes teamed together"...it was heroes teamed together, and for B&B #50, it happened to be two of them.

 

There is nothing in the ad that suggests that the concept was limited to two characters...in fact, it implicitly states otherwise, by leaving the team-up suggestions up to the readers...which probably explains B&B #54.

 

DC may have intended for the team-ups to be limited to "two heroes", but this limitation...if it ever existed...was dropped by the 3rd issue of this new "title."

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

HANEY: I did a lot of my best work on Brave and Bold. I did good solid stories and plots and I had some fairly, reasonably imaginative ways of linking up the characters, or creating a plot that tied in with the particular guest star. Even Batman himself. I can remember half a dozen stories that I thought were superior.

 

A lot of kids a lot of our fans liked it. We got a lot of letters. The book sold well. And I did the damn book for what? Thirteen years?

 

CATRON: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

 

HANEY: I even got huzzahs from Paul Levitz. [Laughs.] Until he fired me off the book years later.

 

CATRON: [Laughs.] Well, Ive got some early issues here. Heres the first one, apparently, Green Arrow and Manhunter from Mars.

 

HANEY: Yeah, thats it. Yeah.

 

CATRON: Then theres a Flash/Manhunter from Mars.

 

HANEY: Right, right.

 

CATRON: Thats just a couple issues later. And Flash and Doom Patrol.

 

HANEY: Right.

 

CATRON: And, of course, Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad.

 

HANEY: Yeah, the first Teen Titans.

 

 

If there's one person who is an absolute authority on continuity, it's definitely Bob Haney.

 

I guess we're going to leave out the very next thing said in the interview ?

 

CATRON: And, of course, Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad.

HANEY: Yeah, the first Teen Titans.

CATRON: Right. Before they were called the Teen Titans. It was just a three-way team-up, apparently.

HANEY: Right. I came up with the name.Teen Titans.

 

Haney did not contradict himself in the span of two sentences. He didn't say "the first Teen Titans" and then immediately say in the next breath "except, it wasn't the Teen Titans at all." Haney's only saying that he came up with the name, in reply to Catron saying "Before they were called the Teen Titans."

 

No, he explicitly says "the first Teen Titans", referring to issue #54.

[RockMyAmadeus]

HANEY: I did a lot of my best work on Brave and Bold. I did good solid stories and plots and I had some fairly, reasonably imaginative ways of linking up the characters, or creating a plot that tied in with the particular guest star. Even Batman himself. I can remember half a dozen stories that I thought were superior.

 

A lot of kids a lot of our fans liked it. We got a lot of letters. The book sold well. And I did the damn book for what? Thirteen years?

 

CATRON: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

 

HANEY: I even got huzzahs from Paul Levitz. [Laughs.] Until he fired me off the book years later.

 

CATRON: [Laughs.] Well, Ive got some early issues here. Heres the first one, apparently, Green Arrow and Manhunter from Mars.

 

HANEY: Yeah, thats it. Yeah.

 

CATRON: Then theres a Flash/Manhunter from Mars.

 

HANEY: Right, right.

 

CATRON: Thats just a couple issues later. And Flash and Doom Patrol.

 

HANEY: Right.

 

CATRON: And, of course, Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad.

 

HANEY: Yeah, the first Teen Titans.

 

 

If there's one person who is an absolute authority on continuity, it's definitely Bob Haney.

 

I guess we're going to leave out the very next thing said in the interview ?

 

CATRON: And, of course, Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad.

HANEY: Yeah, the first Teen Titans.

CATRON: Right. Before they were called the Teen Titans. It was just a three-way team-up, apparently.

HANEY: Right. I came up with the name.Teen Titans.

 

Haney's unprompted recollection of BB54 as the "first Teen Titans" is a lot more significant to me than Catron's comment. Especially given Haney's recollection that BB54 resulted from his editor's directive to come with a JJLA issue (in line with what DC hinted they'd do 24 issues earlier) and it was only "later" that the group was instead dubbed with the name he came up with: Teen Titans. Catron had nothing to do with the creation of the group, so your bolding of Catron's comment to obscure Haney's unprompted recollection just tells me how desperate you are to muddy the waters.

 

So you purposely leave out pertinent parts of the discussion between the 2 individuals, skewing information to again to try and be right, then at the same time decide to be the arbiter of what should be viewed as relevant and what shouldn't and I'm the desperate one ? I guess Haney agreeing with these statements is irrelevant because he can't think for himself.

 

Continue using hyperbole including disparaging comments to people, it's really helping to prove your point.

 

I'm confused as to what you think was the "disparaging comment" that sfcityduck made to you in this post...? Is calling you "desperate to muddy the waters" a "disparaging comment"...? If so, I think you're overreacting.

 

Haney's remarks do indeed carry much more weight than Catron's, because Haney is the one who wrote the stories in question. Yes, absolutely Haney's comments are far, far more relevant. That should go without saying. You have misred Haney's statements as "agreeing with (Catron)", even though Catron himself doesn't say it was NOT the Teen Titans...he says they hadn't been named yet, and it was "just a three-way team-up, apparently."

 

After all...Catron doesn't say "Right. Before they became the Teen Titans." He says "Right. Before they were called the Teen Titans."

 

That's a significant difference, and Haney's response might have been, too, if Catron was making the former, and not the latter, claim.

[RockMyAmadeus]

HANEY: I did a lot of my best work on Brave and Bold. I did good solid stories and plots and I had some fairly, reasonably imaginative ways of linking up the characters, or creating a plot that tied in with the particular guest star. Even Batman himself. I can remember half a dozen stories that I thought were superior.

 

A lot of kids a lot of our fans liked it. We got a lot of letters. The book sold well. And I did the damn book for what? Thirteen years?

 

CATRON: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

 

HANEY: I even got huzzahs from Paul Levitz. [Laughs.] Until he fired me off the book years later.

 

CATRON: [Laughs.] Well, Ive got some early issues here. Heres the first one, apparently, Green Arrow and Manhunter from Mars.

 

HANEY: Yeah, thats it. Yeah.

 

CATRON: Then theres a Flash/Manhunter from Mars.

 

HANEY: Right, right.

 

CATRON: Thats just a couple issues later. And Flash and Doom Patrol.

 

HANEY: Right.

 

CATRON: And, of course, Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad.

 

HANEY: Yeah, the first Teen Titans.

 

 

If there's one person who is an absolute authority on continuity, it's definitely Bob Haney.

 

I guess we're going to leave out the very next thing said in the interview ?

 

CATRON: And, of course, Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad.

HANEY: Yeah, the first Teen Titans.

CATRON: Right. Before they were called the Teen Titans. It was just a three-way team-up, apparently.

HANEY: Right. I came up with the name.Teen Titans.

 

Haney's unprompted recollection of BB54 as the "first Teen Titans" is a lot more significant to me than Catron's comment. Especially given Haney's recollection that BB54 resulted from his editor's directive to come with a JJLA issue (in line with what DC hinted they'd do 24 issues earlier) and it was only "later" that the group was instead dubbed with the name he came up with: Teen Titans. Catron had nothing to do with the creation of the group, so your bolding of Catron's comment to obscure Haney's unprompted recollection just tells me how desperate you are to muddy the waters.

 

So you purposely leave out pertinent parts of the discussion between the 2 individuals, skewing information to again to try and be right, then at the same time decide to be the arbiter of what should be viewed as relevant and what shouldn't and I'm the desperate one ? I guess Haney agreeing with these statements is irrelevant because he can't think for himself.

 

Continue using hyperbole including disparaging comments to people, it's really helping to prove your point.

 

When Haney was shown BB54 he reacted, without any prompting, by stating: "Yeah, the first Teen Titans." Catron's immediate response? "Right." So do you think Catron agreed that BB54 was the first Teen Titans? It sure looks like it under your theory that saying "Right" is an adoptive admission of what was said before.

 

Here's the transcript again:

 

CATRON: And, of course, Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad.

HANEY: Yeah, the first Teen Titans.

CATRON: Right. Before they were called the Teen Titans. It was just a three-way team-up, apparently.

HANEY: Right. I came up with the name.Teen Titans.

 

Me, however, I think you have to read a conversation with the recognition that some of what people say is clear and some is ambiguous. And what's clear about this conversation is that when shown BB54, Haney's immediate reaction was "Yeah, the first Teen Titans."

 

Catron then said "Right," apparently agreeing that BB54 was the "first Teen Titans." You, I think, would disagree that this is what Catron meant because it would contradict your reading of the passage.

 

Then Catron said "Before they were called the Teen Titans," a factual statement that all of us can agree with.

 

And then Catron made a wishy washy and vague statement that could, if read one way, contradict the "Right" he'd uttered a few second before: "It was just a three-way team-up, apparently."

 

[What Catron did not say is: "BB60 is really the first appearance of the Teen Titans." So it is by no means clear that his last statement was intended to contradict his apparent agreement that BB54 is the "first Teen Titans."]

 

Haney then confuses things further by saying "Right," without indicating what it is he's saying "Right" in response to. Could be Catron's agreement that BB54 was the "first Teen Titans," and/or Catron's statement that BB54 was before they were called the Teen Titans, and/or Catron's statement it was "just a three-way team-up, apparently." It could be one, two or all three.

 

Haney does, however, make a clear statement that "I came up with the name Teen Titans," which strongly indicates that all Haney was agreeing with was Catron's statement about BB54 pre-dating the name Teen Titans.

 

In short, if you're being intellectually honest, you have to admit that the only clear statements made by Haney in that interview were: (1) BB is "the first Teen Titans" and (2) "I came up with the name Teen Titans."

 

Anything else we might infer was said by Haney (or Catron) is based on speculation as to what they meant when they said "Right."

 

So, no, this interview doesn't help you at all.

 

Especially, when you consider what else Haney said about the creation of the Teen Titans in other interviews. Like I said, this is a desperate attempt.

 

This is stated better.

[RockMyAmadeus]

After 78 pages...

 

If after 78 pages this can't be decided then it's possible that both sides are right.

 

 

I suppose people will be referring to page counts on the board forever, even though page count is different for everyone who doesn't have their post/page counts set to the default of "10." Referring to post count, rather than page count, is the only way to ensure that everyone is looking at the same number.

 

I also suppose that repeating this multiple times still won't get people to realize, and make adjustment for, that fact.

 

[JTLarsen]

Why? We already know that the conventional wisdom says BB 54 is their first appearance. Lazyboy's citation is, actually, more interesting, because it's an example of a departure from the norm. Now, that said, comics.org is the single most authoritative source for comics info. And they don't consider BB 54 the first appearance of the Teen Titans. If I were interested in the Teen Titans, I'd definitely find that interesting.

I'm not trying to debate which was the first appearance, I'm more trying to learn in this instance. That being said, comics.org is not infallible. I think the indexers and editors there do a terrific job of compiling data, but how would they know any more than those of us here which comic was the first appearance other than by their own interpretation and perspective?

 

Well, by their experience for one thing. Meaning, they've read a lot of comic books and so have more experience than newbies do at determining what distinguishes a Superhero Team from a superhero team-up.

 

Secondly, their high profile ensures that they are liable to get pushback from fellow experts if/when they screw something up. So, these two factors and related factors are what help give them more credibility than some average schmo.

 

In other words, empiricism and epistemology matter. Not everything is mere opinion.

[JTLarsen]

It's Friday night gents...... youse guys need to go out and scout some tush..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Excuse me, friend of Jesus? Could you speak about women in some way that doesn't reduce them to a sexualized body part? We're trying to make this hobby an inclusive one, so let's act as if people of all kinds may be checking this forum out. Pretty sure Jesus didn't talk that way about women.

 

Well, as long as you are apologizing, I guess it's ok. But please try to avoid this behavior in the future.

 

Not all posters here are men, my friends. Lotsa of ladies out there ❤️ the 60 ?

 

... my apologies if anyone took offense. It was intended as a joke. I watched a 20 something female cosplayer buy a 2 issue Byrne X-Men arc from my friend Gene at the last show..... we talked for a minute and she said her Dad was a collector and that these two issues were her favorite story and she wanted her OWN copies. I like seeing the gals get involved..... comics are fun. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

.... I showed Judy this thread and she agreed that a night on the town would be a good idea for some of the posters (...she reads comics too )

 

..... D.C. had an ongoing strategy of trying new concepts out to gauge reader response..... it would seem BB 54 was a gamble that paid off....

 

I wasn't offended, but I appreciate and thank you for the apology. I'm sure we, myself included, can all do better to ensure that this forum and other public spaces in our hobby are as inclusive and welcoming to everyone as possible. (That way, more people want to buy our comics some day!)

[jimjum12]

It's Friday night gents...... youse guys need to go out and scout some tush..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Excuse me, friend of Jesus? Could you speak about women in some way that doesn't reduce them to a sexualized body part? We're trying to make this hobby an inclusive one, so let's act as if people of all kinds may be checking this forum out. Pretty sure Jesus didn't talk that way about women.

 

Well, as long as you are apologizing, I guess it's ok. But please try to avoid this behavior in the future.

 

Not all posters here are men, my friends. Lotsa of ladies out there ❤️ the 60 ?

 

... my apologies if anyone took offense. It was intended as a joke. I watched a 20 something female cosplayer buy a 2 issue Byrne X-Men arc from my friend Gene at the last show..... we talked for a minute and she said her Dad was a collector and that these two issues were her favorite story and she wanted her OWN copies. I like seeing the gals get involved..... comics are fun. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

.... I showed Judy this thread and she agreed that a night on the town would be a good idea for some of the posters (...she reads comics too )

 

..... D.C. had an ongoing strategy of trying new concepts out to gauge reader response..... it would seem BB 54 was a gamble that paid off....

 

I wasn't offended, but I appreciate and thank you for the apology. I'm sure we, myself included, can all do better to ensure that this forum and other public spaces in our hobby are as inclusive and welcoming to everyone as possible. (That way, more people want to buy our comics some day!)

 

I must confess, when you first confronted me, my "inner child" bristled..... but after a more objective analysis I couldn't help but determine that I may have been a bit of a boorish . Sometimes a refreshing slap in the face can be a positive motivator (.... after the fact, of course ) GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[JTLarsen]

It's Friday night gents...... youse guys need to go out and scout some tush..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Excuse me, friend of Jesus? Could you speak about women in some way that doesn't reduce them to a sexualized body part? We're trying to make this hobby an inclusive one, so let's act as if people of all kinds may be checking this forum out. Pretty sure Jesus didn't talk that way about women.

 

Well, as long as you are apologizing, I guess it's ok. But please try to avoid this behavior in the future.

 

Not all posters here are men, my friends. Lotsa of ladies out there ❤️ the 60 ?

 

... my apologies if anyone took offense. It was intended as a joke. I watched a 20 something female cosplayer buy a 2 issue Byrne X-Men arc from my friend Gene at the last show..... we talked for a minute and she said her Dad was a collector and that these two issues were her favorite story and she wanted her OWN copies. I like seeing the gals get involved..... comics are fun. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

.... I showed Judy this thread and she agreed that a night on the town would be a good idea for some of the posters (...she reads comics too )

 

..... D.C. had an ongoing strategy of trying new concepts out to gauge reader response..... it would seem BB 54 was a gamble that paid off....

 

I wasn't offended, but I appreciate and thank you for the apology. I'm sure we, myself included, can all do better to ensure that this forum and other public spaces in our hobby are as inclusive and welcoming to everyone as possible. (That way, more people want to buy our comics some day!)

 

I must confess, when you first confronted me, my "inner child" bristled..... but after a more objective analysis I couldn't help but determine that I may have been a bit of a boorish . Sometimes a refreshing slap in the face can be a positive motivator (.... after the fact, of course ) GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Appreciate that. For what it's worth, it wasn't intended as a slap. "Excuse me," I should have realized, can sound very snotty. I intended it in a tap-on-the-shoulder way, but should've realized it could've been seen otherwise. So, thanks for being open-minded and focusing on my intent rather than my communication style.

[VintageComics]

I scouted some tush and found it. I just happened to marry it. Does that make me a Teen Titan?

[sfcityduck]

I found this kind of interesting.

I find the Teen Titans Archives vol. 1 (starts with BB 54) and Teen Titans: A Celebration of 50 Years (keys off of BB 54) much more interesting.

 

Why? We already know that the conventional wisdom says BB 54 is their first appearance. Lazyboy's citation is, actually, more interesting, because it's an example of a departure from the norm. Now, that said, comics.org is the single most authoritative source for comics info. And they don't consider BB 54 the first appearance of the Teen Titans. If I were interested in the Teen Titans, I'd definitely find that interesting.

 

You have got to be kidding! Comics.org is a wiki. And it sure looks to me like someone out there is manipulating every wiki they can find to try and create the appearance that BB 60 is the first Teen Titans. It's a sad example of market manipulation if that is what is happening.

[HighStakesComics]

I found this kind of interesting.

I find the Teen Titans Archives vol. 1 (starts with BB 54) and Teen Titans: A Celebration of 50 Years (keys off of BB 54) much more interesting.

 

Why? We already know that the conventional wisdom says BB 54 is their first appearance. Lazyboy's citation is, actually, more interesting, because it's an example of a departure from the norm. Now, that said, comics.org is the single most authoritative source for comics info. And they don't consider BB 54 the first appearance of the Teen Titans. If I were interested in the Teen Titans, I'd definitely find that interesting.

 

You have got to be kidding! Comics.org is a wiki. And it sure looks to me like someone out there is manipulating every wiki they can find to try and create the appearance that BB 60 is the first Teen Titans. It's a sad example of market manipulation if that is what is happening.

 

Out of curiousity, what would make you say comics.org is a wiki?

[Crimebuster]

 

You have got to be kidding! Comics.org is a wiki. And it sure looks to me like someone out there is manipulating every wiki they can find to try and create the appearance that BB 60 is the first Teen Titans. It's a sad example of market manipulation if that is what is happening.

 

You constantly ascribe nefarious motives to everyone who disagrees with you. If people are changing resources online to reflect the fact that #60 is the Teen Titans' first appearance, it's likely because they believe that to be correct, not because of some sinister "market manipulation."

 

You're probably seeing these changes happen a lot because you're wrong and they are right. It doesn't mean that there's some evil conspiracy by villainous grifters.