1st Teen Titans 3 3

[50 CENT LONG BOX]

Worthless without a poll!

[JTLarsen]

Worthless without a poll!

 

Well, no. I don't think anyone's arguing that more people consider BB60 the first appearance. We're not talking about what people think. We're talking about what's actually IN BB54. And what's not--i.e., a superhero team.

 

I'm sure most people aren't aware of that. Yet.

[HighStakesComics]

We had a poll 40 or so pages ago. It was roughly a 60/40 split in favor of BB 60. If someone would like to start up another Id be curious to see if the results would differ.

[sfcityduck]

No one is reading this thread but a small handfull of stubborn posters. This thread isn't convincing anyone of anything. The real poll is on eBay, and on eBay dealers overwhelmingly, in fact universally (including you HighStakesComics), list BB54 as a TT comic with all but one saying "first appearance."

 

 

[sfcityduck]

I'm confused. Isn't Bob Haney the one who wrote BB 60, which included Robin telling Batman that "after Kid Flash, Aqualad and I helped the teenagers of Hatton Corners" he set up the Teen Titans?

 

Which means:

1. The Teen Titans did not spontaneously form when the three sidekicks met and worked together

2. It was "Kid Flash, Aqualad and I (Robin)" rather than "the Teen Titans" who helped the teenagers of Hatton Corners

3. "After" is still a very important word in that panel despite the people who insist the Teen Titans appeared in BB 54 ignoring it constantly

 

Why would Bob Haney need to explain anything years after the fact when it's all clearly visible on the pages he wrote?

 

Still ignoring this post, sfcityduck? Maybe hoping if you ignore it long enough it will just disappear?

 

All of those positions have been addressed over and over.

 

Let me make it simple enough you can understand.

 

The group now known as the TT formed in BB54 when Robin, Kid Flash and Aqualad came together for the very first time in a shared adventure against a common menace. That story is essentially the same as Avengers 1. Heroes come together due to common menace, come into conflict, learn to work together.

 

We also know that behind the scenes this comic was created in response to fan demand leading to an editorial directive for a "Junior Justice League" issue. Bob Haney explained this in interviews because its an interesting topic and he was asked. He certainly knows what happened.

 

What did not happen in BB54 is the naming of that team as the JJL. Instead, six issues later, the team was named the "Teen Titans." The editorial narrative was that the team was formed as a result of the events in BB54 and the team name was selected after that, but before BB60. The continuity is clear. Team forms, then picks up name. Haney concurs.

 

So does DC, Overstreet, dealers, fans, etc.

 

Keep spitting against the wind.

 

 

[Lazyboy]

I'm confused. Isn't Bob Haney the one who wrote BB 60, which included Robin telling Batman that "after Kid Flash, Aqualad and I helped the teenagers of Hatton Corners" he set up the Teen Titans?

 

Which means:

1. The Teen Titans did not spontaneously form when the three sidekicks met and worked together

2. It was "Kid Flash, Aqualad and I (Robin)" rather than "the Teen Titans" who helped the teenagers of Hatton Corners

3. "After" is still a very important word in that panel despite the people who insist the Teen Titans appeared in BB 54 ignoring it constantly

 

Why would Bob Haney need to explain anything years after the fact when it's all clearly visible on the pages he wrote?

 

Still ignoring this post, sfcityduck? Maybe hoping if you ignore it long enough it will just disappear?

 

[Lazyboy]

[sfcityduck]

What sfcityduck really sees:

 

Well, let's take a look at the 'brief' history of the TEEN TITANS.

 

About a year and a half ago, THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD No. 54 came out with a trio of your favorite teen heroes - ROBIN, AQUALAD, and KID FLASH.

 

Get it? Way back when Teen Titans no. 1 came out DC stated that the "history of the Teen Titans" starts with BB 54!

 

The book [bB 54] took off like a Gemini rocket - and right then and there we sensed we were building another winner.

 

Next time around, in B&B No. 60, we took the lead form the vast number of fans who called for the addition of WONDER GIRL to the teen team, ...

 

Get it? BB 60 was just the "next time" the team appears and Wonder Girl was just an "addition ... to the teen team." So way back when Teen Titans no. 1 came out it was already recognized that the team was created in BB 54, BB 60 was the "next time" the "team" appeared, and Wonder Girl was an "addition" to the "team."

 

Do I really need to go on explaining plain English to you?

 

... we introduced them to comicdom as the TEEN TITANS. The little Amazon worked wonders, all right. She helped the world's first team of teen super-heroes soar to new heights of acclaim.

 

Get it? In BB 60 they introduced the name "Teen Titans," and the "addition" of Wonder Girl helped the "team ... soar to new heights of acclaim." Meaning, more popularity and favorable response then their original appearance in BB 54.

 

This is really obvious.

 

You don't need to photoshop the text. It's all plain there to see. I suggest you read it with an open mind.

 

Edited September 2, 2015 by sfcityduck

[Crimebuster]

That story is essentially the same as Avengers 1.

 

 

No it isn't, as you well know, since we've gone over this before. Because Avengers #1 has a half page sequence where they actually form a team.

 

I bolded that to make it easier for you to see.

 

 

 

[nearmint]

What sfcityduck really sees:

 

Well, let's take a look at the 'brief' history of the TEEN TITANS.

 

About a year and a half ago, THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD No. 54 came out with a trio of your favorite teen heroes - ROBIN, AQUALAD, and KID FLASH.

 

Get it? Way back when Teen Titans no. 1 came out DC stated that the "history of the Teen Titans" starts with BB 54!

 

The book [bB 54] took off like a Gemini rocket - and right then and there we sensed we were building another winner.

 

Next time around, in B&B No. 60, we took the lead form the vast number of fans who called for the addition of WONDER GIRL to the teen team, ...

 

Get it? BB 60 was just the "next time" the team appears and Wonder Girl was just an "addition ... to the teen team." So way back when Teen Titans no. 1 came out it was already recognized that the team was created in BB 54, BB 60 was the "next time" the "team" appeared, and Wonder Girl was an "addition" to the "team."

 

Do I really need to go on explaining plain English to you?

 

... we introduced them to comicdom as the TEEN TITANS. The little Amazon worked wonders, all right. She helped the world's first team of teen super-heroes soar to new heights of acclaim.

 

Get it? In BB 60 they introduced the name "Teen Titans," and the "addition" of Wonder Girl helped the "team ... soar to new heights of acclaim." Meaning, more popularity and favorable response then their original appearance in BB 54.

 

This is really obvious.

 

You don't need to photoshop the text. It's all plain there to see. I suggest you read it with an open mind.

 

All good points.

[Lazyboy]

Of course BB 54 is part of the history of the Teen Titans, in a similar way as Tec 38, Flash 110 and Adventure 269 are, but more closely tied to the team. BB 60 isn't comparable since Wonder Girl's first appearance is the same as the team's.

 

In reality, BB 54 was a test to gauge fan reaction to a team-up of teen sidekicks. In the story, it inspired Robin to later set up a team of teen superheroes.

 

It is appropriate to include BB 54 in a written or collected history of the Teen Titans, despite no team, named or otherwise, appearing in the story.

[HighStakesComics]

Of course neither one of you guys are even acknowledging the sentence about "introducing them to the world as the Teen Titans". If that doesn't quantify a 1st appearance I'm not sure what does? It doesn't say "the team that formed in 54 became the Teen Titans" even though I'm sure you would like it to. To put it another way, I'll refer to the 2015 Overstreet Price Guide.....

 

 

 

 

[Lazyboy]

What sfcityduck really sees:

 

Well, let's take a look at the 'brief' history of the TEEN TITANS.

 

About a year and a half ago, THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD No. 54 came out with a trio of your favorite teen heroes - ROBIN, AQUALAD, and KID FLASH.

 

Get it? Way back when Teen Titans no. 1 came out DC stated that the "history of the Teen Titans" starts with BB 54!

 

The book [bB 54] took off like a Gemini rocket - and right then and there we sensed we were building another winner.

 

Next time around, in B&B No. 60, we took the lead form the vast number of fans who called for the addition of WONDER GIRL to the teen team, ...

 

Get it? BB 60 was just the "next time" the team appears and Wonder Girl was just an "addition ... to the teen team." So way back when Teen Titans no. 1 came out it was already recognized that the team was created in BB 54, BB 60 was the "next time" the "team" appeared, and Wonder Girl was an "addition" to the "team."

 

Do I really need to go on explaining plain English to you?

 

... we introduced them to comicdom as the TEEN TITANS. The little Amazon worked wonders, all right. She helped the world's first team of teen super-heroes soar to new heights of acclaim.

 

Get it? In BB 60 they introduced the name "Teen Titans," and the "addition" of Wonder Girl helped the "team ... soar to new heights of acclaim." Meaning, more popularity and favorable response then their original appearance in BB 54.

 

This is really obvious.

 

You don't need to photoshop the text. It's all plain there to see. I suggest you read it with an open mind.

 

It continues to amaze me how you ignore the contents between the covers of BB 54 and BB 60 in favour of loosely chosen words (especially DC's constant use of "team" and "team-up" as if they were interchangeable) from interviews and articles as well as decades of misinformation from the OPG.

[sfcityduck]

Of course neither one of you guys are even acknowledging the sentence about "introducing them to the world as the Teen Titans". If that doesn't quantify a 1st appearance I'm not sure what does?

 

You need to sharpen your reading (and reasoning) skills. Read this:

 

What sfcityduck really sees: ...

 

The book [bB 54] took off like a Gemini rocket - and right then and there we sensed we were building another winner.

 

Next time around, in B&B No. 60, we took the lead form the vast number of fans who called for the addition of WONDER GIRL to the teen team, ...

 

Get it? BB 60 was just the "next time" the team appears and Wonder Girl was just an "addition ... to the teen team." So way back when Teen Titans no. 1 came out it was already recognized that the team was created in BB 54, BB 60 was the "next time" the "team" appeared, and Wonder Girl was an "addition" to the "team."

 

Do I really need to go on explaining plain English to you?

 

... we introduced them to comicdom as the TEEN TITANS. The little Amazon worked wonders, all right. She helped the world's first team of teen super-heroes soar to new heights of acclaim.

 

Get it? In BB 60 they introduced the name "Teen Titans," and the "addition" of Wonder Girl helped the "team ... soar to new heights of acclaim." Meaning, more popularity and favorable response then their original appearance in BB 54.

 

This is really obvious.

 

You don't need to photoshop the text. It's all plain there to see. I suggest you read it with an open mind.

[sfcityduck]

That OPG article is just wrong. Fortunately, the way the book is listed is correct.

[passion4comics]

After 78 pages is it possible that both BB54 and BB60 are both the first appearance of the Teen Titans. 54 has them together as a group and they are officially named in 60 and both books would share the same weight as being the first with 54 only having an edge of them being together as a group for the first time? Then it would be up to the collector like 180 and 181 is a debatable first appearance.

 

If after 78 pages this can't be decided then it's possible that both sides are right.

 

This is a Jack and Coke rant.

[VintageComics]

 

He calls them a trio in BB #54, The Teen Titans in #60 and then the 'fabulous new foresome' in SC #59. Does that mean they weren't the Teen Titans in SC #59?

 

Again, I agree with SFCD's logic.

 

They were a trio (a team) of teen heroes in BB #54, they were resurrected for BB #60 and finally named the TT.

 

I don't not consider them TT in #54 just because they weren't named then. They are basically the same group with a female addition. And it's more than a prototype. It's a full appearance of 3 of the 4 members as a group. Not a regular group, but a group nevertheless.

[Sqeggs]

 

He calls them a trio in BB #54, The Teen Titans in #60 and then the 'fabulous new foresome' in SC #59. Does that mean they weren't the Teen Titans in SC #59?

 

Again, I agree with SFCD's logic.

 

They were a trio (a team) of teen heroes in BB #54, they were resurrected for BB #60 and finally named the TT.

 

I don't not consider them TT in #54 just because they weren't named then. They are basically the same group with a female addition. And it's more than a prototype. It's a full appearance of 3 of the 4 members as a group. Not a regular group, but a group nevertheless.

 

Roy, Please track me down 9.2 or higher copies of both. OW-W pq or better if possible.

 

Add a small premium to whichever issue is the true first appearance.

 

Thanks.

[VintageComics]

Of course BB 54 is part of the history of the Teen Titans, in a similar way as Tec 38, Flash 110 and Adventure 269 are, but more closely tied to the team. BB 60 isn't comparable since Wonder Girl's first appearance is the same as the team's.

 

In reality, BB 54 was a test to gauge fan reaction to a team-up of teen sidekicks. In the story, it inspired Robin to later set up a team of teen superheroes.

 

It is appropriate to include BB 54 in a written or collected history of the Teen Titans, despite no team, named or otherwise, appearing in the story.

 

So the discussion is between what constitutes a team vs. a team-up?

 

That's what it sounds like to me.

[VintageComics]

 

Roy, Please track me down 9.2 or higher copies of both. OW-W pq or better if possible.

 

Add a small premium to whichever issue is the true first appearance.

 

Thanks.

 

You missed out on a #54 9.6 some time ago.

 

I actually don't add any sort of a premium. I try to price all my books based on what the market in total thinks (ie. GPA, OSPG, etc).

 

I just like the debate. Personally, I can't stand DC.