Where in the world was the Quality Control at CGC??? 43 43

[lostboys]

On 3/8/2022 at 12:08 PM, JJ-4 said:

Thanks for the great response.  Good to hear some folks here are satisfied with their hard earned dollars and are happy with the results and getting books back timely.

On the topic of critics it seems to me as an outsider that some of them had really positive interactions with CGC in the past but the general trend has been more issues with quality, price, and TAT's.

Years ago I used to go to a mechanic that had a sign hanging up in the office that said something like "My Independent shop has the following 1) Industry Leading Quality 2) Better Prices, We Beat the Competition 3) Speed - Get Your Vehicle Back Fast," and at the bottom it said "Please Select the 2 that are important to you".

It seems CGC delivers exactly zero.

Good

Fast

Cheap

Pick any 2 of the 3 options

Good and fast isn't cheap

Fast and cheap isn't good

Good and cheap isn't fast

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:32 PM, lostboys said:

Good and fast isn't cheap

Fast and cheap isn't good

Good and cheap isn't fast

                                       

[The Lions Den]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:35 AM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Something I've been wondering about: how do the plastic shards end up being encapsulated?  Do they come from other slabs?

Tiny pieces of plastic can break off the edges of the outer holder during encapsulation and wind up inside the slab...  

[The Lions Den]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:17 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

80% of the time all my modern books are shifted all the way to the right in the CGC holder when I open up the box from CGC.  Since most books dont have over hang they are fine after I nicely bang the holder to center the books there after.  However any overhang is 100% damaged every single time now from CGC I get in the modern tier. 

Many books used to be rejected for overhang...  

[JJ-4]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:32 AM, lostboys said:

Good

Fast

Cheap

Pick any 2 of the 3 options

Good and fast isn't cheap

Fast and cheap isn't good

Good and cheap isn't fast

 

You have to have good so it boils down to do you pay out of your *nose* to get it quick or would you rather get the good job done when he can get around to it on the less expensive rate.

[awakeintheashes]

Filing this straight under WTF

Previous label was mislabeled as a Hans variant…new label below. 

Glad I could ship them my book for them to hold onto it for a month or whatever they did. This is the Sway retailer incentive Variant…

Edited March 8, 2022 by awakeintheashes

[NewWorldOrder]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:38 AM, The Lions Den said:

Many books used to be rejected for overhang...  

Not for slight 

[GACollectibles]

On 3/8/2022 at 4:23 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Not for slight 

You probably should stop submitting that drek, it's obvious slowing down the TATs.

[The Lions Den]

On 3/8/2022 at 4:23 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Not for slight 

That is true, but it was always a judgement call. 

The problem is that even a slight overhang is inherently weak. If the book shifts around in the holder, it's usually going to result in damage...  

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:34 PM, The Lions Den said:

That is true, but it was always a judgement call. 

The problem is that even a slight overhang is inherently weak. If the book shifts around in the holder, it's usually going to result in damage...  

SCS bumps and bruises are maddening.   

[wombat]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:00 AM, Gaard said:

 Unless there's some kind of "use them all, and we'll reslab those that people complain about" decision from management.

 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 3/8/2022 at 4:34 PM, The Lions Den said:

That is true, but it was always a judgement call. 

The problem is that even a slight overhang is inherently weak. If the book shifts around in the holder, it's usually going to result in damage...  

Every single modern book shifts to the right in the CGC holder via shipping back from CGC.  I always have to nicely hit them on my desk into the center again.  Every single one of them.  Just got 50 books back today with 3 more SCS at the bottom right from slight over hang, and all the rest were crunched up to the right of the inner well as per usual.

GA/SA/BA are you usually not a problem since they fit very well in the inner well most of the time due to their size. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:42 PM, The Lions Den said:

Tiny pieces of plastic can break off the edges of the outer holder during encapsulation and wind up inside the slab...  

 

On 3/9/2022 at 12:34 AM, The Lions Den said:

The problem is that even a slight overhang is inherently weak. If the book shifts around in the holder, it's usually going to result in damage...  

I like to read your posts Lion, as you are one of the few members here with direct experience of the CGC operation.

For the sake of discussion, and not putting you on the spot personally, if we take the above two statements as true - that pieces of rogue plastic can find themselves encased and that a book can shift in the inner holder - what would your views be on the recent record breaking Heritage AF15:

 

Using the scans provided by Heritage, I see a piece of rogue plastic in the back cover image:

Do you see that? It may be a trick of the light, or perhaps something on the scanner bed, but you would have thought that Heritage would have spotted that, wouldn't you. The fact that it is clearly present in these magnifiable images lends weight to the possibility of it being in the case.

More importantly though, it is clear from the scans that the book has leeway to move within the inner holder. There is a graduating gap of a few millimetres at the top...

...at the side and, again on a graduating basis, the bottom:

 

The book appears to have a back cover overhang - very visible in the back cover image (which presumably explains the recess):

 

...and which is still visible, but not so pronounced from the front:

 

My thinking is that if the book were to move upwards in the holder, the fact that it is not in alignment with the top of the inner holder means that that back left corner overhang is going to hit the top first, about an inch in, at an angle, and get dented by the curve of the inner holder recess edge. Indeed, the image gives the impression that it has already done so:

Another trick of the light?

If this book were to get damaged as I have illustrated, I presume it would no longer qualify for a 9.6 with obvious implications.

What do you think? Is there scope for that book to get damaged within the inner holder, just by sliding upwards, or should we put it all down to bad camera work / optical illusions, exacerbated by magnification?

[The Lions Den]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:00 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

 

I like to read your posts Lion, as you are one of the few members here with direct experience of the CGC operation.

For the sake of discussion, and not putting you on the spot personally, if we take the above two statements as true - that pieces of rogue plastic can find themselves encased and that a book can shift in the inner holder - what would your views be on the recent record breaking Heritage AF15:

 

Using the scans provided by Heritage, I see a piece of rogue plastic in the back cover image:

Do you see that? It may be a trick of the light, or perhaps something on the scanner bed, but you would have thought that Heritage would have spotted that, wouldn't you. The fact that it is clearly present in these magnifiable images lends weight to the possibility of it being in the case.

More importantly though, it is clear from the scans that the book has leeway to move within the inner holder. There is a graduating gap of a few millimetres at the top...

...at the side and, again on a graduating basis, the bottom:

 

The book appears to have a back cover overhang - very visible in the back cover image (which presumably explains the recess):

 

...and which is still visible, but not so pronounced from the front:

 

My thinking is that if the book were to move upwards in the holder, the fact that it is not in alignment with the top of the inner holder means that that back left corner overhang is going to hit the top first, about an inch in, at an angle, and get dented by the curve of the inner holder recess edge. Indeed, the image gives the impression that it has already done so:

Another trick of the light?

If this book were to get damaged as I have illustrated, I presume it would no longer qualify for a 9.6 with obvious implications.

What do you think? Is there scope for that book to get damaged within the inner holder, just by sliding upwards, or should we put it all down to bad camera work / optical illusions, exacerbated by magnification?

Thank you for the informative and interesting post! 

My sense of it is that you're correct---it looks like the book has already moved around in the holder. For something like this, encapsulation usually uses a wedge (a small piece of reinforcing plastic) to keep the book from moving. That slight overhang on the top edge is a perfect example of what I was previously referring to---inherently weak and easily damaged.   

The other issue you've highlighted could be a sliver of plastic, but it could also just be a tiny piece of paper encased in (or simply stuck to) the holder. 

For a book of this magnitude, it literally blows my mind that these issues are considered acceptable... 

[The Lions Den]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:32 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Every single modern book shifts to the right in the CGC holder via shipping back from CGC.  I always have to nicely hit them on my desk into the center again.  Every single one of them.  Just got 50 books back today with 3 more SCS at the bottom right from slight over hang, and all the rest were crunched up to the right of the inner well as per usual.

GA/SA/BA are you usually not a problem since they fit very well in the inner well most of the time due to their size. 

I am sorry to hear this. It sounds like the wells they're using could benefit from a wedge or two...  

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/9/2022 at 12:11 PM, The Lions Den said:

Thank you for the informative and interesting post! 

My sense of it is that you're correct---it looks like the book has already moved around in the holder. For something like this, encapsulation usually uses a wedge (a small piece of reinforcing plastic) to keep the book from moving. That slight overhang on the top edge is a perfect example of what I was previously referring to---inherently weak and easily damaged.   

The other issue you've highlighted could be a sliver of plastic, but it could also just be a tiny piece of paper encased in (or simply stuck to) the holder. 

For a book of this magnitude, it literally blows my mind that these issues are considered acceptable... 

Thanks Lion. It's sort of the point of my post really. If a book of that magnitude - a book which will be scrutinised above all others - can be encapsulated and presented in that fashion, then what does that say about the whole slabbing gig full stop? If books of a certain age have covers that sit proud of the guts by design, then what is the logical conclusion for any that sit in a holder in which movement is possible?

And yet here we are, twenty years later, with a multi-million pound organisation pumping them out in their thousands to the majority approval of the industry. Puzzling in a way, isn't it.

[The Lions Den]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:31 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Thanks Lion. It's sort of the point of my post really. If a book of that magnitude - a book which will be scrutinised above all others - can be encapsulated and presented in that fashion, then what does that say about the whole slabbing gig full stop? If books of a certain age have covers that sit proud of the guts by design, then what is the logical conclusion for any that sit in a holder in which movement is possible?

And yet here we are, twenty years later, with a multi-million pound organisation pumping them out in their thousands to the majority approval of the industry. Puzzling in a way, isn't it.

I'm puzzled by a lot of things these days...  

[Sigur Ros]

 

Quote

I don't know about "throw away", but it's logical to assume that if CGC spends their time/money to reslab these slabs, they would probably not want them used in the first place. Unless there's some kind of "use them all, and we'll reslab those that people complain about" decision from management.

Like most companies, they are likely banking on the fact that most people won't send them back.

It's probably worth it to them to risk that.  

The plastic is probably very inexpensive so all they have is min. wage labor costs... and it's not like they go out of their way to hurry and fix them.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Sigur Ros

[Iceman399]

They def create more work for themselves than need be.

Fills out invoice of why I need a bunch of books mechanically fixed.

Emails to get a label from them. 

*waits for CS to reply 24-48 hrs*

We need to know why you need a label for the mechanical errors to see if they qualify.

Lists the reasons on the books

*waits for CS to reply 24-48 hrs*

[djzombi]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:32 PM, wombat said:

The really sad part is we have no idea if that is terrible grading or just a mistake on the label. If that submission had two of the same book..........

Yep.  I had two Spidey Vol. 2 #36 return to me (same submission), one 9.6, the other 9.8.  The 9.6 looks better to me than the 9.8.  Were the labels accidentally swapped at CGC?  Who knows?  
After that, now I don't send dupes in the same submission, and instead split them between two different orders.