Grader Notes - What a joke

[BeachBum]

 

Really? I'd venture a guess and say that far more people care about the rollback of the modern tier to 1975 than whether the graders' notes are free or not. I personally would much rather have CGC focus on getting the turnaround times back on track :shrug:

 

I will easily concede turnaround times as the priority over notes. I should not have overlooked that. However, the tier for what was considered modern submissions was a set level where people simply accepted it even if they disagreed. Notes were once free. Charging for them led to an outcry that was not seen nor discussed in regards to discussions pertaining to the line drawn for what constitutes a modern book and what does not.

 

 

Honestly - compared to the outcry here on the boards when the modern tier was pushed to 1980, the noise level on the graders' notes has been minimal (albeit persistent).

 

The truth is that outside of these boards nobody cares about the notes to any significant extent - they didn't care when you could get them for free (which, btw, was never acknowledged publicly by CGC), and they don't care now when you have to pay for them. It's just not the big deal that you're trying to make it out to be :shrug:

 

It's no secret that I work a fair number of shows for CGC as a CAW - the top 3 complaints I hear at every show are:

 

1) Turnaround times

2) Shipping prices (which is usually from people who don't understand why they paid $32 for USPS shipping and receive a box with a postage label stating $15 worth of postage, not realizing that the $15 is only the regular USPS priority mail cost and doesn't include the $12+ Registered Mail fee nor the cost of the USPS insurance).

3) Invoice fee

 

Graders' notes aren't even a blip on the radar.

 

I would disagree with that. At my last two LCS, I was one of the few if not the only guy that submitted books to CGC. The major complaint was and is, how do you know what is going on inside the book? At this time CGC should be enticing those within the collecting community that do not subscribe to their services a reason to start. The Signature Series was the last time I saw some type of innovation to bring in people that would not normally have encapsulated their books to do so. Every now and then I bring in one of my Golden Age books to the LCS because he likes to check them out. A recent conversation with another customer asked about how CGC determined the grade assigned and how you can find out. His response was pretty rational. Why should you pay to have the book assessed and then pay again to find out how they arrived at the assessment. He immediately said "No thanks" to CGC.

 

Pushing the timeline of what is considered old and what is considered new is inevitable (in my opinion). Eventually even the books that are coming out next week will be considered "non-moderns." That is reasonable. It is unreasonable to charge for notes, as that is in my eyes, and many others, double charging for the same service.

 

And you lie. Your biggest complaints at shows are probably:

 

1 - "What do you mean you cannot accept this book? I waited in line all day! I swear to God that (insert comic talent) sketched / signed this book!!"

 

2 - "I cracked the book out that (insert comic talent) had signed last year myself so (insert comic talent) could sign it. What do you mean you cannot verify the book."

 

3 - "Turnaround time is what?" (Told you I agree with that)

 

Pretty harsh.

So he gave you his notes for free and you don't trust them?

 

Reread the conversation - that is not what I said in the slightest. He was stating the three most heard comments when he works shows with CGC. I said he lies in a sarcastic tone as he mostly deals with signature series. That is why I said the comments that he must hear the most is along the lines of people who cannot get with the rules of the SS program.

 

Nah, Schmidt is on point. I spend a lot of time around the CGC booth at shows since I submit so much. The biggest thing people complain about are $$$ and turnaround times. You do get the random person walking up with a book that got signed on their own because they didn't know they needed a witness but most people walk up and ask what they need to do beforehand and a CGC rep fills them in on the process.

 

To say Schmidt is lying (even in sarcasm) is not fair. He's one of the most professional standup guys in the business.

[Buzzetta]

 

Really? I'd venture a guess and say that far more people care about the rollback of the modern tier to 1975 than whether the graders' notes are free or not. I personally would much rather have CGC focus on getting the turnaround times back on track :shrug:

 

I will easily concede turnaround times as the priority over notes. I should not have overlooked that. However, the tier for what was considered modern submissions was a set level where people simply accepted it even if they disagreed. Notes were once free. Charging for them led to an outcry that was not seen nor discussed in regards to discussions pertaining to the line drawn for what constitutes a modern book and what does not.

 

 

Honestly - compared to the outcry here on the boards when the modern tier was pushed to 1980, the noise level on the graders' notes has been minimal (albeit persistent).

 

The truth is that outside of these boards nobody cares about the notes to any significant extent - they didn't care when you could get them for free (which, btw, was never acknowledged publicly by CGC), and they don't care now when you have to pay for them. It's just not the big deal that you're trying to make it out to be :shrug:

 

It's no secret that I work a fair number of shows for CGC as a CAW - the top 3 complaints I hear at every show are:

 

1) Turnaround times

2) Shipping prices (which is usually from people who don't understand why they paid $32 for USPS shipping and receive a box with a postage label stating $15 worth of postage, not realizing that the $15 is only the regular USPS priority mail cost and doesn't include the $12+ Registered Mail fee nor the cost of the USPS insurance).

3) Invoice fee

 

Graders' notes aren't even a blip on the radar.

 

I would disagree with that. At my last two LCS, I was one of the few if not the only guy that submitted books to CGC. The major complaint was and is, how do you know what is going on inside the book? At this time CGC should be enticing those within the collecting community that do not subscribe to their services a reason to start. The Signature Series was the last time I saw some type of innovation to bring in people that would not normally have encapsulated their books to do so. Every now and then I bring in one of my Golden Age books to the LCS because he likes to check them out. A recent conversation with another customer asked about how CGC determined the grade assigned and how you can find out. His response was pretty rational. Why should you pay to have the book assessed and then pay again to find out how they arrived at the assessment. He immediately said "No thanks" to CGC.

 

Pushing the timeline of what is considered old and what is considered new is inevitable (in my opinion). Eventually even the books that are coming out next week will be considered "non-moderns." That is reasonable. It is unreasonable to charge for notes, as that is in my eyes, and many others, double charging for the same service.

 

And you lie. Your biggest complaints at shows are probably:

 

1 - "What do you mean you cannot accept this book? I waited in line all day! I swear to God that (insert comic talent) sketched / signed this book!!"

 

2 - "I cracked the book out that (insert comic talent) had signed last year myself so (insert comic talent) could sign it. What do you mean you cannot verify the book."

 

3 - "Turnaround time is what?" (Told you I agree with that)

 

Pretty harsh.

So he gave you his notes for free and you don't trust them?

 

Reread the conversation - that is not what I said in the slightest. He was stating the three most heard comments when he works shows with CGC. I said he lies in a sarcastic tone as he mostly deals with signature series. That is why I said the comments that he must hear the most is along the lines of people who cannot get with the rules of the SS program.

 

Nah, Schmidt is on point. I spend a lot of time around the CGC booth at shows since I submit so much. The biggest thing people complain about are $$$ and turnaround times. You do get the random person walking up with a book that got signed on their own because they didn't know they needed a witness but most people walk up and ask what they need to do beforehand and a CGC rep fills them in on the process.

 

To say Schmidt is lying (even in sarcasm) is not fair. He's one of the most professional standup guys in the business.

 

It was not my intention for people to think I am accusing him of lying. Again, read it in context. It was a joke. I am not calling him a liar.

[VintageComics]

To say Schmidt is lying (even in sarcasm) is not fair.

 

Dude, I'm quite sure it was a joke.

 

He agrees with Mike on one point and puts across two more sarcastic points.

[mschmidt]

 

Really? I'd venture a guess and say that far more people care about the rollback of the modern tier to 1975 than whether the graders' notes are free or not. I personally would much rather have CGC focus on getting the turnaround times back on track :shrug:

 

I will easily concede turnaround times as the priority over notes. I should not have overlooked that. However, the tier for what was considered modern submissions was a set level where people simply accepted it even if they disagreed. Notes were once free. Charging for them led to an outcry that was not seen nor discussed in regards to discussions pertaining to the line drawn for what constitutes a modern book and what does not.

 

 

Honestly - compared to the outcry here on the boards when the modern tier was pushed to 1980, the noise level on the graders' notes has been minimal (albeit persistent).

 

The truth is that outside of these boards nobody cares about the notes to any significant extent - they didn't care when you could get them for free (which, btw, was never acknowledged publicly by CGC), and they don't care now when you have to pay for them. It's just not the big deal that you're trying to make it out to be :shrug:

 

It's no secret that I work a fair number of shows for CGC as a CAW - the top 3 complaints I hear at every show are:

 

1) Turnaround times

2) Shipping prices (which is usually from people who don't understand why they paid $32 for USPS shipping and receive a box with a postage label stating $15 worth of postage, not realizing that the $15 is only the regular USPS priority mail cost and doesn't include the $12+ Registered Mail fee nor the cost of the USPS insurance).

3) Invoice fee

 

Graders' notes aren't even a blip on the radar.

 

I would disagree with that. At my last two LCS, I was one of the few if not the only guy that submitted books to CGC. The major complaint was and is, how do you know what is going on inside the book? At this time CGC should be enticing those within the collecting community that do not subscribe to their services a reason to start. The Signature Series was the last time I saw some type of innovation to bring in people that would not normally have encapsulated their books to do so. Every now and then I bring in one of my Golden Age books to the LCS because he likes to check them out. A recent conversation with another customer asked about how CGC determined the grade assigned and how you can find out. His response was pretty rational. Why should you pay to have the book assessed and then pay again to find out how they arrived at the assessment. He immediately said "No thanks" to CGC.

 

Pushing the timeline of what is considered old and what is considered new is inevitable (in my opinion). Eventually even the books that are coming out next week will be considered "non-moderns." That is reasonable. It is unreasonable to charge for notes, as that is in my eyes, and many others, double charging for the same service.

 

And you lie. Your biggest complaints at shows are probably:

 

1 - "What do you mean you cannot accept this book? I waited in line all day! I swear to God that (insert comic talent) sketched / signed this book!!"

 

2 - "I cracked the book out that (insert comic talent) had signed last year myself so (insert comic talent) could sign it. What do you mean you cannot verify the book."

 

3 - "Turnaround time is what?" (Told you I agree with that)

 

Pretty harsh.

So he gave you his notes for free and you don't trust them?

 

Reread the conversation - that is not what I said in the slightest. He was stating the three most heard comments when he works shows with CGC. I said he lies in a sarcastic tone as he mostly deals with signature series. That is why I said the comments that he must hear the most is along the lines of people who cannot get with the rules of the SS program.

 

Nah, Schmidt is on point. I spend a lot of time around the CGC booth at shows since I submit so much. The biggest thing people complain about are $$$ and turnaround times. You do get the random person walking up with a book that got signed on their own because they didn't know they needed a witness but most people walk up and ask what they need to do beforehand and a CGC rep fills them in on the process.

 

To say Schmidt is lying (even in sarcasm) is not fair. He's one of the most professional standup guys in the business.

 

It was not my intention for people to think I am accusing him of lying. Again, read it in context. It was a joke. I am not calling him a liar.

 

I saw it as a joke too - it's all good :thumbsup:

[passion4comics]

I never found the grader notes from CGC to be useful at all

 

I did one time. Called for notes as book I was wanting to buy looked better than the grade. Book had a small tear on one page. I bought the book anyway.

 

Notes were free then.

 

Yeah, back when they were free and you had to call in, I did the same for a beautiful-looking comic graded 7.5 by the CGC. Graders notes: "no grader's notes."

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

 

Someone can argue the book is a 10 then or was not looked at by 3 graders.

[passion4comics]

I'd be curious to see the early graders notes from the "Other Guys" compared to today seeing how backed up they are now. If your example was an early book, they might have tried to make it more detailed but I wonder how they are now and if that was recently graded, given they are now months behind as well...

 

Either way, they should be free, or built into the cost of all the books, along with that bogus invoice fee, even if it costs raising every tier a buck or something....

 

Sounds like a fair piece of market share is jumping ship. Since grader notes are a sticking point, wouldn't you try to level that playing field?

[jsilverjanet]

I'd be curious to see the early graders notes from the "Other Guys" compared to today seeing how backed up they are now. If your example was an early book, they might have tried to make it more detailed but I wonder how they are now and if that was recently graded, given they are now months behind as well...

 

Either way, they should be free, or built into the cost of all the books, along with that bogus invoice fee, even if it costs raising every tier a buck or something....

 

Sounds like a fair piece of market share is jumping ship. Since grader notes are a sticking point, wouldn't you try to level that playing field?

 

Theres no proof that people are jumping ship

 

Could be people who weren't submitting books to CGC to begin with

 

I'm sure they have taken a market share but to suggest it's significant without any real numbers is pure speculation

 

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

Both companies should be putting grading notes on the back of labels.

 

Oh hell no.

 

I don't want that DREK on any part of the label.

 

Makes it look ugly.

 

CBCS's label is bad enough.

[Wall-Crawler]

What I don't get is why does CGC not try to take some wind out of the competition's sails? Why "give them" anything they can say they do "better" and/or "cheaper" than you?

 

Ditch the $5 invoice fee. That is just a grubby cash grab.

 

Offer free notes. Put them on the back of the slab and/or make them available online when you do a certification look up. You are paying for your book to be graded. Bottom line, charging for graders notes, after you have paid for the book to be graded, is just "double-dipping".

 

While these will not address the larger issue of turnaround times, to me, it seems like two relatively "simple" changes CGC could make that would result in better goodwill from their customers and result in even less incentive to try the "other guy".

 

 

PS - I was very pleased they expanded the modern tier though. I have subbed a lot more books since that came into effect than I normally would have this past year.

[NewWorldOrder]

What I don't get is why does CGC not try to take some wind out of the competition's sails? Why "give them" anything they can say they do "better" and/or "cheaper" than you?

 

Ditch the $5 invoice fee. That is just a grubby cash grab.

 

Offer free notes. Put them on the back of the slab and/or make them available online when you do a certification look up. You are paying for your book to be graded. Bottom line, charging for graders notes, after you have paid for the book to be graded, is just "double-dipping".

 

While these will not address the larger issue of turnaround times, to me, it seems like two relatively "simple" changes CGC could make that would result in better goodwill from their customers and result in even less incentive to try the "other guy".

 

 

PS - I was very pleased they expanded the modern tier though. I have subbed a lot more books since that came into effect than I normally would have this past year.

 

Until CBCS becomes "real" competition nothing will change. All CGC had to do is make the modern 1975 tier change so far and their profits soared.

 

CBCS is holding themselves back so far.

 

Don't get me started on their terrible comic holders and their signature series program of verifying dead guys. Come on Man........

[BeachBum]

 

Really? I'd venture a guess and say that far more people care about the rollback of the modern tier to 1975 than whether the graders' notes are free or not. I personally would much rather have CGC focus on getting the turnaround times back on track :shrug:

 

I will easily concede turnaround times as the priority over notes. I should not have overlooked that. However, the tier for what was considered modern submissions was a set level where people simply accepted it even if they disagreed. Notes were once free. Charging for them led to an outcry that was not seen nor discussed in regards to discussions pertaining to the line drawn for what constitutes a modern book and what does not.

 

 

Honestly - compared to the outcry here on the boards when the modern tier was pushed to 1980, the noise level on the graders' notes has been minimal (albeit persistent).

 

The truth is that outside of these boards nobody cares about the notes to any significant extent - they didn't care when you could get them for free (which, btw, was never acknowledged publicly by CGC), and they don't care now when you have to pay for them. It's just not the big deal that you're trying to make it out to be :shrug:

 

It's no secret that I work a fair number of shows for CGC as a CAW - the top 3 complaints I hear at every show are:

 

1) Turnaround times

2) Shipping prices (which is usually from people who don't understand why they paid $32 for USPS shipping and receive a box with a postage label stating $15 worth of postage, not realizing that the $15 is only the regular USPS priority mail cost and doesn't include the $12+ Registered Mail fee nor the cost of the USPS insurance).

3) Invoice fee

 

Graders' notes aren't even a blip on the radar.

 

I would disagree with that. At my last two LCS, I was one of the few if not the only guy that submitted books to CGC. The major complaint was and is, how do you know what is going on inside the book? At this time CGC should be enticing those within the collecting community that do not subscribe to their services a reason to start. The Signature Series was the last time I saw some type of innovation to bring in people that would not normally have encapsulated their books to do so. Every now and then I bring in one of my Golden Age books to the LCS because he likes to check them out. A recent conversation with another customer asked about how CGC determined the grade assigned and how you can find out. His response was pretty rational. Why should you pay to have the book assessed and then pay again to find out how they arrived at the assessment. He immediately said "No thanks" to CGC.

 

Pushing the timeline of what is considered old and what is considered new is inevitable (in my opinion). Eventually even the books that are coming out next week will be considered "non-moderns." That is reasonable. It is unreasonable to charge for notes, as that is in my eyes, and many others, double charging for the same service.

 

And you lie. Your biggest complaints at shows are probably:

 

1 - "What do you mean you cannot accept this book? I waited in line all day! I swear to God that (insert comic talent) sketched / signed this book!!"

 

2 - "I cracked the book out that (insert comic talent) had signed last year myself so (insert comic talent) could sign it. What do you mean you cannot verify the book."

 

3 - "Turnaround time is what?" (Told you I agree with that)

 

Pretty harsh.

So he gave you his notes for free and you don't trust them?

 

Reread the conversation - that is not what I said in the slightest. He was stating the three most heard comments when he works shows with CGC. I said he lies in a sarcastic tone as he mostly deals with signature series. That is why I said the comments that he must hear the most is along the lines of people who cannot get with the rules of the SS program.

 

Nah, Schmidt is on point. I spend a lot of time around the CGC booth at shows since I submit so much. The biggest thing people complain about are $$$ and turnaround times. You do get the random person walking up with a book that got signed on their own because they didn't know they needed a witness but most people walk up and ask what they need to do beforehand and a CGC rep fills them in on the process.

 

To say Schmidt is lying (even in sarcasm) is not fair. He's one of the most professional standup guys in the business.

 

It was not my intention for people to think I am accusing him of lying. Again, read it in context. It was a joke. I am not calling him a liar.

 

That's why I pointed out "even in sarcasm". People read through that text quickly and could easily take it the wrong way.

[Transplant]

Until CBCS becomes "real" competition nothing will change. All CGC had to do is make the modern 1975 tier change so far and their profits soared.

 

CBCS is holding themselves back so far.

 

Don't get me started on their terrible comic holders and their signature series program of verifying dead guys. Come on Man........

FYI, I hit the mod button on this post. If people can't discuss CBCS in a positive light without posts getting deleted, they shouldn't be allowed to slam them either.

[jsilverjanet]

[BeachBum]

[Transplant]

 

Amen. What's your favorite flavor?

[stippy52]

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'd just prefer they not grade as harshly as they are at this moment....

 

 

Great time to be a buyer.

 

I was thinking the same thing. They are tight as heck again.

 

I've gotten quite a few books, both for myself and my clients, that are just a single grade level under where they should be, including a book that was a cracked 9.0, pressed out some significant flaws, and it came back...9.0. Also have a gorgeous FF #1 GRR that has a printer's crease that was graded as a regular crease, and hammered down to an 8.5.

 

That, of course, shouldn't be. I love CGC...really do...but this over-tightness hurts substantially.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I never found the grader notes from CGC to be useful at all

 

I did one time. Called for notes as book I was wanting to buy looked better than the grade. Book had a small tear on one page. I bought the book anyway.

 

Notes were free then.

 

Yeah, back when they were free and you had to call in, I did the same for a beautiful-looking comic graded 7.5 by the CGC. Graders notes: "no grader's notes."

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

 

Someone can argue the book is a 10 then or was not looked at by 3 graders.

 

The books aren't (usually) looked at by 3 graders. They haven't been for years.

 

"a) CGC guarantees that two or more comic professionals will review every comic book submitted for grading."

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/faq/index.asp#sectionGrading

 

 

[slym2none]

Yeah, I heard that the 3rd comic-grader only comes in if there's a major dispute between the first two.

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

I never found the grader notes from CGC to be useful at all

 

I did one time. Called for notes as book I was wanting to buy looked better than the grade. Book had a small tear on one page. I bought the book anyway.

 

Notes were free then.

 

Yeah, back when they were free and you had to call in, I did the same for a beautiful-looking comic graded 7.5 by the CGC. Graders notes: "no grader's notes."

 

:shrug:

 

Someone can argue the book is a 10 then or was not looked at by 3 graders.

 

The book looks to be an easy 9.2 with a good possibility of 9.4 - but there has to be something I am overlooking. A minor water spot, or stain somewhere? IDK, and for a book that looks that nice in the slab (much less, it still looks that good after I cracked it out) to be graded 7.5, one would think that the grader's notes would tell what the flaw is.

 

That's all I am saying.

 

 

 

 

-slym