Grader Notes - What a joke

[BeachBum]

What? CGC has been a little on the loose side for a while.

 

Might depend on the tier.

 

I've had a few come back in the same grade or lower and they weren't overgraded the first time.

 

Moderns are tight at CGC, have been for awhile but that's fine with me. I'm usually not surprised when a book fails 9.8 pre-screen. Marvels and IDWs are tough at the moment. Print run quality at Marvel varies from week to week.

 

From what I've seen so far the other company they are a bit loose on Moderns, especially with the uber higher grades. This is from firsthand experience, cases in hand. But that's just my opinion and what do I know, right?

 

I'm in even bigger disagreement here. They are giving gifts out like a drunk Santa Claus in moderns. The other company is actually not giving production defects a pass for moderns and handing out tighter grades.

 

I'd need to know about what production defects on moderns are given a pass before I could respond to that. I saw a 10.0 Marvel (new release, not thick stock or special cover stock) from the other company at a show this past summer that had a huge dent coming out from the spine just above the bottom staple that was a such a glaring defect... A lot of people looked at that book.

 

When it comes to Moderns I couldn't sub to that company anyway since their turnaround time on Modern Tier looks on par or just a bit worse than CGC's are right now. The only other option is the $35 fast pass option which is not cost effective and based on their volume handling issues they couldn't handle my submission volume on a regular basis anyway. No way they get a 500 - 1000 book submission out in two days if I threw it at them under that tier.

[RockMyAmadeus]

As I said before...the real problem is the market, and it's ridiculous overreaction to the number on the case. It's leveled off SUBSTANTIALLY in the last 5 years, where a 9.4 X-Men #100 is only, say, $100 less than a 9.6, but it still can be quite extreme. If not for the wild swings in prices, a 9.2 vs. a 9.4 wouldn't be a problem.

 

I've said it a thousand times...it's time to add the odd grades in the 9s. 9.7, 9.5, 9.3, 9.1. It would smooth out the bumps substantially, across the board, and would make for a much more vibrant market. If a book is a $3000 book in 9.8, and a $1000 book in 9.6, I'd be much happier with...and much less interested in complaining about...a 9.7 that sells for $2000.

 

None of the excuses for why "they can't" are valid, and have never been. Coins have been doing it for 40 years. Time to catch up.

[BeachBum]

I know you two guys are top notch graders, but you're the last two I'd trust when getting an opinion on one company versus the other.

 

Why?

[rebelpk]

Wow this has shifted from Graders notes to grades.

[CKB]

Just a question:

 

With neither company publishing their standards, it is possible to compare the grade numbers AT ALL?

 

I believe you can only really compare them book among other books graded by the same company. Maybe 9.9 is a more achievable grade by the other company's standard than CGC? Do we even think we know?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The 9.9 and 10 grades have been zealously overprotected by CGC, and handed out far, far less than ratios should indicate.

 

That's fine on the one hand, but on the other, there are far, far too many really gorgeous books sitting in 9.8 slabs that have no business being in the same slab as a book with some corner softness, or incomplete spine rounding (aka "flecking"), or spine impressions.

 

Really a shame.

[revat]

Just a question:

 

With neither company publishing their standards, it is possible to compare the grade numbers AT ALL?

 

I believe you can only really compare them book among other books graded by the same company. Maybe 9.9 is a more achievable grade by the other company's standard than CGC? Do we even think we know?

 

I think for moderns, it would take someone like DRE (beachbum) who submits hundreds (?) per month AND has been doing so (therefore has a pretty firm grasp of grading) to maybe send half CGC and half elsewhere and compare them to his own expectations, and also to compare to his past percentages.

 

Like lets say for the past two years, dre has been averaging 3% 9.9 and 10.0, 3% 9.6, with the rest being 9.8 on moderns. If for the next year, he split his submissions and the CGC's kept getting similar percentages but the CBCS got significantly different (or similar) percentages, then you might be able to take some knowledge from that. But there is very little financial incentive to do that type of thing. Barring that, there's not too many ways to get direct comparisons (with enough sample size to draw conclusions).

 

You COULD resubmit books back and forth between companies, but what financial incentive would be there, just to have your own data points? And even if you did that with enough volume to draw conclusions, why would you tell anyone what you learned, since you spent all that money to gain the knowledge, and why would anyone even trust what you say?

 

 

[21Pittsburgh58]

Bottom line is that you will never see amazing consistency for either company, for any tier, for any age. Too many graders who consider defects differently. The primary reason for this is because grading is subjective. For everyone. One person's 9.6 is another person's 10 and vice versa, etc etc.

 

This is why graders notes are important and should be free from both companies.

 

P.S. I have never sent a book in for grading, ever. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

P.P.S. I do own graded books from both companies.

[mschmidt]

Bottom line is that you will never see amazing consistency for either company, for any tier, for any age. Too many graders who consider defects differently. The primary reason for this is because grading is subjective. For everyone. One person's 9.6 is another person's 10 and vice versa, etc etc.

 

That's not true at all.

 

If one company calls a book a 9.6 and another company calls it a 10.0, one company is in the wrong.

[DR.X]

Bottom line is that you will never see amazing consistency for either company, for any tier, for any age. Too many graders who consider defects differently. The primary reason for this is because grading is subjective. For everyone. One person's 9.6 is another person's 10 and vice versa, etc etc.

 

That's not true at all.

 

 

I have to agree on this. I don't believe in too much subjetivity. You either know how to grade in the ball park, or you don't.

[wombat]

Have people just adapted their grading to how they think CGC will come back as? I can see that happening over time.

[RockMyAmadeus]

. One person's 9.6 is another person's 10 and vice versa, etc etc.

.

 

When one person calls a book a 9.6, and the other calls it a 10, one or both of those people don't know how to grade.

[Logan510]

Have people just adapted their grading to how they think CGC will come back as? I can see that happening over time.

 

I know I have over the last few years. I started out too tight and generally think I'm still a little tighter than they are

[passion4comics]

What? CGC has been a little on the loose side for a while.

 

I have a sharp presenting 7.5 that makes an 8.0 look like a rag next to it. That .5 bump can mean tens of thousands.

 

The last book I subbed to CGC, also meaning the last book I will sub to CGC, was in the plastic with a seal from the publisher. This means it came off the press and was bagged by the publisher. It came back a 9.8; no graders notes available. Where are these defects that held it from a 10? Do they even look at moderns or just slap a 9.8 on them or if someone notices something a 9.6?

[kav]

they just slap

[Bomber-Bob]

What? CGC has been a little on the loose side for a while.

 

I have a sharp presenting 7.5 that makes an 8.0 look like a rag next to it. That .5 bump can mean tens of thousands.

 

The last book I subbed to CGC, also meaning the last book I will sub to CGC, was in the plastic with a seal from the publisher. This means it came off the press and was bagged by the publisher. It came back a 9.8; no graders notes available. Where are these defects that held it from a 10? Do they even look at moderns or just slap a 9.8 on them or if someone notices something a 9.6?

 

I was always under the assumption that there are no grading notes on a 9.8 . I would think what prevents a 9.8 from being a 10 is not really a flaw, or at least a correctable one. Things like staple placement, centering, 4 razor sharp corners, etc.

[porky]

What? CGC has been a little on the loose side for a while.

 

I have a sharp presenting 7.5 that makes an 8.0 look like a rag next to it. That .5 bump can mean tens of thousands.

 

The last book I subbed to CGC, also meaning the last book I will sub to CGC, was in the plastic with a seal from the publisher. This means it came off the press and was bagged by the publisher. It came back a 9.8; no graders notes available. Where are these defects that held it from a 10? Do they even look at moderns or just slap a 9.8 on them or if someone notices something a 9.6?

 

I was always under the assumption that there are no grading notes on a 9.8 . I would think what prevents a 9.8 from being a 10 is not really a flaw, or at least a correctable one. Things like staple placement, centering, 4 razor sharp corners, etc.

 

 

yup. most books come from the printers as 9.8 at best. to expect a 9.9 or 10 is just loony.

[joeypost]

What? CGC has been a little on the loose side for a while.

 

Might depend on the tier.

 

I've had a few come back in the same grade or lower and they weren't overgraded the first time.

 

Moderns are tight at CGC, have been for awhile but that's fine with me. I'm usually not surprised when a book fails 9.8 pre-screen. Marvels and IDWs are tough at the moment. Print run quality at Marvel varies from week to week.

 

From what I've seen so far the other company they are a bit loose on Moderns, especially with the uber higher grades. This is from firsthand experience, cases in hand. But that's just my opinion and what do I know, right?

 

I'm in even bigger disagreement here. They are giving gifts out like a drunk Santa Claus in moderns. The other company is actually not giving production defects a pass for moderns and handing out tighter grades.

 

I'd need to know about what production defects on moderns are given a pass before I could respond to that. I saw a 10.0 Marvel (new release, not thick stock or special cover stock) from the other company at a show this past summer that had a huge dent coming out from the spine just above the bottom staple that was a such a glaring defect... A lot of people looked at that book.

 

When it comes to Moderns I couldn't sub to that company anyway since their turnaround time on Modern Tier looks on par or just a bit worse than CGC's are right now. The only other option is the $35 fast pass option which is not cost effective and based on their volume handling issues they couldn't handle my submission volume on a regular basis anyway. No way they get a 500 - 1000 book submission out in two days if I threw it at them under that tier.

 

Are you saying CGC gives you preferential treatment based on the amount of books you submit?

[BeachBum]

What? CGC has been a little on the loose side for a while.

 

Might depend on the tier.

 

I've had a few come back in the same grade or lower and they weren't overgraded the first time.

 

Moderns are tight at CGC, have been for awhile but that's fine with me. I'm usually not surprised when a book fails 9.8 pre-screen. Marvels and IDWs are tough at the moment. Print run quality at Marvel varies from week to week.

 

From what I've seen so far the other company they are a bit loose on Moderns, especially with the uber higher grades. This is from firsthand experience, cases in hand. But that's just my opinion and what do I know, right?

 

I'm in even bigger disagreement here. They are giving gifts out like a drunk Santa Claus in moderns. The other company is actually not giving production defects a pass for moderns and handing out tighter grades.

 

I'd need to know about what production defects on moderns are given a pass before I could respond to that. I saw a 10.0 Marvel (new release, not thick stock or special cover stock) from the other company at a show this past summer that had a huge dent coming out from the spine just above the bottom staple that was a such a glaring defect... A lot of people looked at that book.

 

When it comes to Moderns I couldn't sub to that company anyway since their turnaround time on Modern Tier looks on par or just a bit worse than CGC's are right now. The only other option is the $35 fast pass option which is not cost effective and based on their volume handling issues they couldn't handle my submission volume on a regular basis anyway. No way they get a 500 - 1000 book submission out in two days if I threw it at them under that tier.

 

Are you saying CGC gives you preferential treatment based on the amount of books you submit?

 

Where in that does it say CGC gives me preferential treatment? I wait just as long for my books as the next guy. C'mon Joey.

 

Based on a two day turnaround at the 'other" company I can't see them getting 500 - 1000 books out the door in two days under their promised turnaround (their tier, not CGC).

[joeypost]

What? CGC has been a little on the loose side for a while.

 

Might depend on the tier.

 

I've had a few come back in the same grade or lower and they weren't overgraded the first time.

 

Moderns are tight at CGC, have been for awhile but that's fine with me. I'm usually not surprised when a book fails 9.8 pre-screen. Marvels and IDWs are tough at the moment. Print run quality at Marvel varies from week to week.

 

From what I've seen so far the other company they are a bit loose on Moderns, especially with the uber higher grades. This is from firsthand experience, cases in hand. But that's just my opinion and what do I know, right?

 

I'm in even bigger disagreement here. They are giving gifts out like a drunk Santa Claus in moderns. The other company is actually not giving production defects a pass for moderns and handing out tighter grades.

 

I'd need to know about what production defects on moderns are given a pass before I could respond to that. I saw a 10.0 Marvel (new release, not thick stock or special cover stock) from the other company at a show this past summer that had a huge dent coming out from the spine just above the bottom staple that was a such a glaring defect... A lot of people looked at that book.

 

When it comes to Moderns I couldn't sub to that company anyway since their turnaround time on Modern Tier looks on par or just a bit worse than CGC's are right now. The only other option is the $35 fast pass option which is not cost effective and based on their volume handling issues they couldn't handle my submission volume on a regular basis anyway. No way they get a 500 - 1000 book submission out in two days if I threw it at them under that tier.

 

Are you saying CGC gives you preferential treatment based on the amount of books you submit?

 

Where in that does it say CGC gives me preferential treatment? I wait just as long for my books as the next guy. C'mon Joey.

 

Based on a two day turnaround at the 'other" company I can't see them getting 500 - 1000 books out the door in two days (their tier, not CGC).

 

Thanks for straightening that out. I may have read between the lines when there was no between the lines. Regarding the statement itself,I would have to respectfully disagree, I know they could if they had to.