Silver age comics that are heating up 26 26

[GrasshopperFF]

On 4/11/2022 at 6:35 PM, supapimp said:

Compare that fugly FF52 to this ASM51 CGC 9.2 both with a color breaking corner crease. Which book looks 9.2 to you. 

This one. Damn. I was awfully close to picking up that fugly FF52 for over $21k. Pretty sure I was one bid away, which is hard to know for sure, but… glad I stopped! Side note: I’ve got a 9.2 ASM 69 and the black w/ Kingpin is one of my favorites. 

[Morganmi]

On 4/11/2022 at 6:06 PM, ninanina said:

Okay, in an attempt to understand what's going on here....okay, after thinking about it, I can't understand what's going on. If I sent in that 8.5 I would have expected at least a 9.4 and would have been very disappointed with the grade. Maybe it's something we don't see?

I see a light inch or so scratch near the bottom left corner in that 8.5 also when you look at the whites and yellows in the moon area the 8.5 looks a bit more soiled compared to the 9.2. I think gloss and the loss of it could also be a factor and something that's hard to tell from pictures especially of a book that's already slabbed. 

That said I think my ASM 97 6.5 looks better than that fugly 52 9.2. 

[mcduckz]

I love how everyone seems to think grading is based on cover only here.  Even though I know better in many cases, it makes me think many graded book collectors are people who migrated in from collected graded sports/trading cards where pretty much everything is visible that you can grade on.

There are waaaaaaay more pages inside the book than the two sheets that comprise the cover.  There could be any number of issues on the inside you are not seeing.  Without obtaining grader's notes on two books you are comparing (and even then grader's notes are often vague), you cannot know why the grade has been assigned.  A book that presents as a 9.8 but is graded 7.0 could have a massive catsup stain on the center page and you'd never know once encapsulated.

Edited April 12, 2022 by mcduckz

[kimik]

On 4/12/2022 at 8:46 AM, mcduckz said:

I love how everyone seems to think grading is based on cover only here.  Even though I know better in many cases, it makes me think many graded book collectors are people who migrated in from collected graded sports/trading cards where pretty much everything is visible that you can grade on.

There are waaaaaaay more pages inside the book than the two sheets that comprise the cover.  There could be any number of issues on the inside you are not seeing.  Without obtaining grader's notes on two books you are comparing (and even then grader's notes are often vague), you cannot know why the grade has been assigned.  A book that presents as a 9.8 but is graded 7.0 could have a massive catsup stain on the center page and you'd never know once encapsulated.

Regardless, the FF #52 is not a 9.2 with all of that visible cover damage even if the pages are the whitest you have ever seen with no hidden blemishes. It happens all the time. Buy the book, not the label.

[dikran]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:46 AM, mcduckz said:

I love how everyone seems to think grading is based on cover only here.  Even though I know better in many cases, it makes me think many graded book collectors are people who migrated in from collected graded sports/trading cards where pretty much everything is visible that you can grade on.

There are waaaaaaay more pages inside the book than the two sheets that comprise the cover.  There could be any number of issues on the inside you are not seeing.  Without obtaining grader's notes on two books you are comparing (and even then grader's notes are often vague), you cannot know why the grade has been assigned.  A book that presents as a 9.8 but is graded 7.0 could have a massive catsup stain on the center page and you'd never know once encapsulated.

All the more reason for clear, detailed grader's notes, especially for the tippy top of the market.  

[pickycollector]

On 4/12/2022 at 10:54 AM, kimik said:

Buy the book, not the label.

This. Period.

[KirbyJack]

Couldn’t agree more!

[bc]

On 4/12/2022 at 1:10 PM, KirbyJack said:

Couldn’t agree more!

Beautiful copy man!

-bc

[silverseeker]

On 4/12/2022 at 7:54 AM, dikran1 said:

All the more reason for clear, detailed grader's notes, especially for the tippy top of the market.  

I totally agree...since you can't see the interior of the book once it's slabbed, detailed graders notes for interior defects should be included to help people understand grades that might be considered questionable.

[Shrevvy]

All I know is that 9 out of 10 people on this board would have graded that FF a 9.2 or better if it was raw...

The FF may be a weak 9.2, but I would not call it fugly. Take away the big $$$ price and most any of us would be happy to have it in our collection.

[bc]

On 4/12/2022 at 3:32 PM, Hook, Line, and Sinker said:

So the company understands the consumers frustration. Step 1 completed! 

But then goes on to state they have no plans to remediate the frustration. 

I understand that grading is subjective, but after slabbing a gajillion books, think they would have a more documented/routinized process around graders notes (while retaining their proprietary intellectual capital used for grading).

Sounds like a Six Sigma Black Belt could do wonders for CGC.

-bc

[kimik]

On 4/12/2022 at 1:07 PM, Shrevvy said:

All I know is that 9 out of 10 people on this board would have graded that FF a 9.2 or better if it was raw...

The FF may be a weak 9.2, but I would not call it fugly. Take away the big $$$ price and most any of us would be happy to have it in our collection.

No, 9 out of 10 would have said 8.5 or lower. When I get gift grades back on books for my PC I sell them and hope that label chasers overpay so I can get a more accurately graded copy and have some cash left over.

[kimik]

On 4/12/2022 at 2:16 PM, bc said:

So the company understands the consumers frustration. Step 1 completed! 

But then goes on to state they have no plans to remediate the frustration. 

I understand that grading is subjective, but after slabbing a gajillion books, think they would have a more documented/routinized process around graders notes (while retaining their proprietary intellectual capital used for grading).

Sounds like a Six Sigma Black Belt could do wonders for CGC.

-bc

Greggy gets detailed notes on all of his submissions...........

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 4/12/2022 at 3:07 PM, Shrevvy said:

All I know is that 9 out of 10 people on this board would have graded that FF a 9.2 or better if it was raw...

The FF may be a weak 9.2, but I would not call it fugly. Take away the big $$$ price and most any of us would be happy to have it in our collection.

I think the repeated use of "fugly" is waaay over the top.  There are more measured ways to say you think a book might be overgraded.

[jimjum12]

On 4/12/2022 at 4:16 PM, bc said:

Sounds like a Six Sigma Black Belt could do wonders for CGC.

Just make everyone hate their jobs. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[KCOComics]

@The Lions Den once explained how graders notes worked. He can correct me, but it was more of an internal communication between two graders and never meant to be a catch all.  

Assuming notes are still used for a similar purpose, I understand Jennifer's response. 

With that said, CGC has evolved and so has the sophistication of their consumers.  I think providing more comprehensive notes is a reasonable expectation.... Let's just not ask them to add more work until the TATs are more manageable. 

 

[NP_Gresham]

On 4/12/2022 at 1:16 PM, bc said:

So the company understands the consumers frustration. Step 1 completed! 

But then goes on to state they have no plans to remediate the frustration. 

I understand that grading is subjective, but after slabbing a gajillion books, think they would have a more documented/routinized process around graders notes (while retaining their proprietary intellectual capital used for grading).

Sounds like a Six Sigma Black Belt could do wonders for CGC.

-bc

More like it is Friday at 5:30 PM and a large stack of books is waiting for grading. 
I can’t imagine the company complaining if the grader knocks out a quick stack with or without hitting them for OT. I don’t think CGC is different from any other company when an employee takes a short cut to bring more profits. 

[divad]

On 4/12/2022 at 6:49 PM, KCOComics said:

With that said, CGC has evolved and so has the sophistication of their consumers.  I think providing more comprehensive notes is a reasonable expectation.... Let's just not ask them to add more work until the TATs are more manageable. 

 

Well . . . the more notes provided, the lower the grade. 

[divad]

On 4/12/2022 at 1:16 PM, bc said:

but after slabbing a gajillion books,

I think it's gazillion, not gajillion . . . 

[ninanina]

On 4/12/2022 at 3:16 PM, bc said:

So the company understands the consumers frustration. Step 1 completed! 

But then goes on to state they have no plans to remediate the frustration. 

I understand that grading is subjective, but after slabbing a gajillion books, think they would have a more documented/routinized process around graders notes (while retaining their proprietary intellectual capital used for grading).

Sounds like a Six Sigma Black Belt could do wonders for CGC.

-bc

I'm glad they at least responded. It would have been worse if they simply ignored what's going on here as some of the posts do come across as marginally inflammatory; whether deserved or not. Moreover, they do give us the freedom to talk about it...that says a lot. CGC is trusted, they usually get it right and because of that are and will be  #1...better than most (they do have that reputation) and important to the hobby but no one is perfect. When you grade a kajillion books, not all are going to be accurate and more importantly everyone will have an opinion, good or bad,  on how they did. Simply the law of averages. When I think about all the ones they get right, IMO it's okay to get the odd one wrong. The day they get them all right, is the day AI will be doing the grading.