Lazyboy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Legion appearances were noted in the OPG for two reasons: 1. The Legion didn't appear in a continuous run of a single title, so the chronology info was valuable in a pre-internet era 2. Bob Overstreet was a big Legion fan! They were never all keys. What you are saying is that you don't consider them keys, but Bob Overstreet did. Only by your ridiculous "value makes keys" definition. Show me where Overstreet, either Bob or the Guide, ever called them keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 My definition of a key is pretty simple- when you find a run that has been cherry-picked, which books are missing? Those are the keys. Except that a lot of them aren't. I didn't realize that someone had declared you decider of what is "key". When a book costs 2-3 times what the books around it in a run cost, the market has said it is a "key" book regardless of whatever rules you've concocted in your head about what a "key" has to be. To my mind, the books that people are paying a premium for are "keys", regardless of the reason. I didn't realize that someone gave you the power to change the meaning of words. See definition 34, the adjective From the OPG (which, despite its many problems, cannot be completely dismissed in the hobby): KEY, KEY BOOK or KEY ISSUE An issue that contains a first appearance, origin, or other historically or artistically important feature considered especially desirable by collectors. Crossover appeal (from classic covers, popular guest/villain appearances, etc.) results in increased demand/value for many books compared to surrounding issues of the title, but that doesn't make them keys. Call me silly, if you like, but I was only commenting that classic covers should not fall under the umbrella of "key books". In my mind, it's what happens between the covers that determines whether a book is a key. You know, the story. Exactly. I was only mentioning things that affect demand/value that aren't important and don't make keys. My reference to classic covers had nothing to do with your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Legion appearances were noted in the OPG for two reasons: 1. The Legion didn't appear in a continuous run of a single title, so the chronology info was valuable in a pre-internet era 2. Bob Overstreet was a big Legion fan! They were never all keys. What you are saying is that you don't consider them keys, but Bob Overstreet did. It was never necessary to know what the 11th appearance of the LSH was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamlet Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Legion appearances were noted in the OPG for two reasons: 1. The Legion didn't appear in a continuous run of a single title, so the chronology info was valuable in a pre-internet era 2. Bob Overstreet was a big Legion fan! They were never all keys. What you are saying is that you don't consider them keys, but Bob Overstreet did. Only by your ridiculous "value makes keys" definition. Show me where Overstreet, either Bob or the Guide, ever called them keys. He called them out in the Guide and broke them out with higher prices than the issues surrounding them. The 2nd Legion appearance is listed as a $300 book in the 1989 price guide. That's more than any Spiderman book except AF15, and ASM 1+2. See, in 1989, people wanted all of the early appearances of their favorite characters, not just the first appearance. There were people paying through the nose for Adventure 267 because it was the 2nd Legion of Superheros. It was considered a key book. By your logic, the first Rocket Racer can be a key, but not Action 7, because its not the first anything. That doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Show me where Overstreet, either Bob or the Guide, ever called them keys. He called them out in the Guide and broke them out with higher prices than the issues surrounding them. The 2nd Legion appearance is listed as a $300 book in the 1989 price guide. That's more than any Spiderman book except AF15, and ASM 1+2. See, in 1989, people wanted all of the early appearances of their favorite characters, not just the first appearance. There were people paying through the nose for Adventure 267 because it was the 2nd Legion of Superheros. Except that Overstreet's definition of keys has nothing to do with value. It was considered a key book. By your logic, the first Rocket Racer can be a key, but not Action 7, because its not the first anything. That doesn't make sense to me. Why would Action 7 be considered a key? The only notable thing about the issue is that Superman is on the cover. Superman is on the cover of a lot of comics and it's not like it's his first cover or even a good cover. It might be more desirable than other early Actions to Superman collectors (especially in the age of encapsulation), likely most of all because it's their consolation prize for never being able to get his first cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Legion appearances were noted in the OPG for two reasons: 1. The Legion didn't appear in a continuous run of a single title, so the chronology info was valuable in a pre-internet era 2. Bob Overstreet was a big Legion fan! They were never all keys. What you are saying is that you don't consider them keys, but Bob Overstreet did. It was never necessary to know what the 11th appearance of the LSH was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Holy goosh, there's a lot of nerd angst in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markseifert Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Legion appearances were noted in the OPG for two reasons: 1. The Legion didn't appear in a continuous run of a single title, so the chronology info was valuable in a pre-internet era 2. Bob Overstreet was a big Legion fan! They were never all keys. What you are saying is that you don't consider them keys, but Bob Overstreet did. I have towering respect for Overstreet, but... yes, this. Largely. (and lots of people did subsequently and ABSOLUTELY considered those Legion apps keys in the 1970s/80s, and some still do to a point) Hamlet, you haven't even gotten to the fun part -- "Headlight" covers (we'll test how old people are by whether they remember that or not ) , Injury to the eye notations, and so on. Keys are in the eye of the beholder. There really is no other definition that you're going to make stick, like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamlet Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Holy goosh, there's a lot of nerd angst in here. Hey it wasn't long ago that you were bemoaning the fact that no one cares about ASM 135 anymore compared to 129. ? That is another second appearance that people thought of as a minor key while the Punisher was hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Holy goosh, there's a lot of nerd angst in here. Hey it wasn't long ago that you were bemoaning the fact that no one cares about ASM 135 anymore compared to 129. ? That is another second appearance that people thought of as a minor key while the Punisher was hot. Relative to Spidey #129, the value of #135 peaked in 1990. That's when #135 was approximately 25% of #129. Since then, #135 has never come close, even in 9.8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey's Wheatcake Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 books with higher demand/higher selling prices, are not necessarily "keys" as we define them in our little microcosm... That's just it. There isn't a generally accepted criteria for what constitutes a key beyond market demand. Even a first appearance needs demand to really be a key. First Spiderman-- key First Rocket Racer -- nope How about the first Rocket Racoon?-- before GotG, nope, afterwards, yup. Keys are simply the books that collectors feel are the most important, for any of a dozen+ reasons that change over time. It's really goofy to me that there are people insisting that Batman 227 isn't a key, even though most people would trade a dozen of the issues around it to get one. That's still not a "key". -J. Correct. Most reasonable people would consider it a grail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Lantern Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) So what's heating up on ebay? Just to show that people don't like PGX, here's a DD #1 current bid at $355 for a 6.5. It is restored though, so that will make a difference... http://www.ebay.ca/itm/281678931891?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT and a #2 that was a 6.0 that finished at $153.40. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400910056965?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT If these were CGC's you would expect them to go for a lot more right? Edited May 7, 2015 by Greatest Lantern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Pontoon Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Typically CGC books will fetch more as they should; buying a PGX slab is akin to buying a raw copy. Keep in mind though that this guy’s photos are lousy, and that’s not going to help his bottom line either. Prior to any boost from the TV show, DD #2 in 6.0 was costing around $200-$250 on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Lantern Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Typically CGC books will fetch more as they should; buying a PGX slab is akin to buying a raw copy. Keep in mind though that this guy’s photos are lousy, and that’s not going to help his bottom line either. Prior to any boost from the TV show, DD #2 in 6.0 was costing around $200-$250 on average. Yeah, I would only buy PGX as a last resort. I'm keeping my eye on a few early DD appearances hoping to score a yellow sometime over the next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearmint Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 buying a PGX slab is akin to buying a raw copy. I'd say it's worse than buying a raw copy. I see a PGX slab and immediately wonder what defects and/or resto are hiding inside that slab. At least I can inspect a raw book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGGIEZ Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Did Hawkman #4 just shoot up in value?? http://comicbook.com/2015/05/06/arrow-the-flash-spinoff-legends-of-tomorrow-to-debut-on-the-cw-i/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Man Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Legion appearances were noted in the OPG for two reasons: 1. The Legion didn't appear in a continuous run of a single title, so the chronology info was valuable in a pre-internet era 2. Bob Overstreet was a big Legion fan! They were never all keys. What you are saying is that you don't consider them keys, but Bob Overstreet did. I have towering respect for Overstreet, but... yes, this. Largely. (and lots of people did subsequently and ABSOLUTELY considered those Legion apps keys in the 1970s/80s, and some still do to a point) Hamlet, you haven't even gotten to the fun part -- "Headlight" covers (we'll test how old people are by whether they remember that or not ) , Injury to the eye notations, and so on. Keys are in the eye of the beholder. There really is no other definition that you're going to make stick, like it or not. Your last statement says it all. Keys are what is important and in demand in the marketplace. Could be a first appearance or a classic cover. If there are a lot of people wanting it, the price goes up because it is "key" to the general public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTLarsen Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Did Hawkman #4 just shoot up in value?? http://comicbook.com/2015/05/06/arrow-the-flash-spinoff-legends-of-tomorrow-to-debut-on-the-cw-i/ Why??? No mention of Zatanna there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbush-Man Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Silver age comics that are heating up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGGIEZ Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Did Hawkman #4 just shoot up in value?? http://comicbook.com/2015/05/06/arrow-the-flash-spinoff-legends-of-tomorrow-to-debut-on-the-cw-i/ Why??? No mention of Zatanna there. Sorry, mean B&B #34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
