SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17) 3 3

[fantastic_four]

Also, still have to give the nod to Spider-Man 2 as better.  This one was TONS more fun, but there weren't any scenes with the inspiration of the Aunt May "I believe there's a hero in all of us" scene, the focusing power of the moment with Ock telling Peter he'll "strip the flesh from her bones" scene, or the tenderness of the "he's just a kid" subway scene.  The ferry scene reminded me of the subway scene, but the subway scene from 2 was better.

[fantastic_four]

Homecoming's most memorable scene started with peter showing up to pick Liz up for homecoming, and climaxed with Toomes driving Peter and Liz to the homecoming dance and having their "dad talk."  Stunningly compelling tension throughout that sequence.  

[OrangeNemesis]

Saw it Sunday. I wasnt blown away like i felt after seeing Guardians for the first time, but teh movie is very fun and enjoyable. They will have alot of room to play with these characters which is good. I think they succeeded in doing what they wanted to with this film. Its also def a film you can bring the whole family too.

[fantastic_four]

This film also did to me what "Amazing Spider-Man" (the first Garfield film) was able to do--it made me want to get into parkour when I got home.  They've got a lot better at capturing Spidey's insane agility as the films have gone on.

 

[Lethal_Collector]

12 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

What does the Scorpion (Max Gargan) have to do with Venom?

Loved the film.  

Gargan takes the suit for a short time.  Could be nothing.....

 

Jerome

[Artboy99]

I saw this movie last night and it was very entertaining. Is it the best Spider-man movie so far? Debatable but I am not sure. I do agree that Holland is the best Spider-man so far. The best parts of the film are of Holland showing that he is learning as best as he can and that he is going to make mistakes in his journey to becoming a super-hero.

The best scene in the movie is when Peter arrives at Liz's house and the ride to the homecoming dance. Great scene and really sucks you in via the tension. Fantastic!

7 out of 10.

Why only 7 out of 10

Spoiler

1. As mentioned already Peter's motivation to be Spider-Man needs to be grounded in his family and Uncle Ben. It seemed very off that he was able to do the "ASM 33" because of the words of Tony Stark.

2. To many people already know Peter is Spider-man. Just bugs me that Ned Leeds, Tony Stark, Happy Hogan, I assume Pepper Potts, Aunt May and the Vulture all know Peter is Spider-man and it is only the first film of this new run.

3. Super suit. As said earlier in this thread: this ain't your Daddy's Spider-man. As Peter was learning he is also learning about the 10,000+ things his Stark suit can do and it even has a voice system computer within. Seems to much Iron Man or even Batman Beyond to me and less Spider-man. While it was entertaining to watch the exploration happen, and I laughed at many of the situations Peter is put into because of the suit it doesn't feel like it is the Spider-man I read for decades.

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

[jsilverjanet]

9 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I saw this movie last night and it was very entertaining. Is it the best Spider-man movie so far? Debatable but I am not sure. I do agree that Holland is the best Spider-man so far. The best parts of the film are of Holland showing that he is learning as best as he can and that he is going to make mistakes in his journey to becoming a super-hero.

The best scene in the movie is when Peter arrives at Liz's house and the ride to the homecoming dance. Great scene and really sucks you in via the tension. Fantastic!

7 out of 10.

Why only 7 out of 10

  Reveal hidden contents

1. As mentioned already Peter's motivation to be Spider-Man needs to be grounded in his family and Uncle Ben. It seemed very off that he was able to do the "ASM 33" because of the words of Tony Stark.

2. To many people already know Peter is Spider-man. Just bugs me that Ned Leeds, Tony Stark, Happy Hogan, I assume Pepper Potts, Aunt May and the Vulture all know Peter is Spider-man and it is only the first film of this new run.

3. Super suit. As said earlier in this thread: this ain't your Daddy's Spider-man. As Peter was learning he is also learning about the 10,000+ things his Stark suit can do and it even has a voice system computer within. Seems to much Iron Man or even Batman Beyond to me and less Spider-man. While it was entertaining to watch the exploration happen, and I laughed at many of the situations Peter is put into because of the suit it doesn't feel like it is the Spider-man I read for decades.

 

 

Spoiler

Great points. Even Liz was not motivation for him or seeing Aunt May again. The inspiration was Tony Stark.

also your right in all the other movies Spider-Man is trying to figure out his powers etc here it's about the suit. 

 

[Jaylam]

The angle of the Spider suit being Stark's invention instead of Peter's is a little much for an old timer like me. Maybe more plausible in today's day and age, but not the Spider-Man I'm familar with. It's essentially another Iron Man suit. I prefer the 'ol Spider-Sense. 

I liked how Toomes/Vulture was written and played by Michael Keaton. I think it was a nice touch by Toomes at the end....

[chezmtghut]

Two things I didn't like is that

Spoiler

Spidey needed Ned's help hacking the suite. Parker is suppose to be a genus & Ned's whole Micro to Punisher type vibe felt way off to me. Not too crazy about Stark creating the Spidey suite either, but at least Iron Man didn't overwhelm the film. Ned's role actually bothered me more than Stark's.

I was really happy to see

Spoiler

Gwyneth Paltrow back in the role of Pepper Pots.

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by chezmtghut

[Turtle]

As others have said, I really enjoyed it, but there are a number of things that keep this movie from topping Spider-man 2:

Spoiler

• First and foremost...Responsibility is the core of the character of Spider-man.  It's what drives him.  It's what makes us feel for him when he has to make big sacrifices in his personal life to maintain his identity as Spider-man.  It seems in this movie, Peter's only motivation is to impress Stark.  I understand the need to keep the mood light, but this shouldn't come at the expense of the central theme of the character.  As someone else mentioned, most of his exploits caused a LOT of collateral damage; the deli being destroyed, for example.  He didn't seem to feel that bad about when stuff like that happened despite being at least partially responsible. 
•  
• Make Flash Thompson come from any ethnic/cultural background you want, but make him an athlete.  Joe Manganiello played the role very well in the Raimi series.  Large, athletic, and very antagonistic toward Peter.  What I like about the character in the comics is how's he's always picking on Peter yet he's the president of the Spider-man fan club.  In this new movie, he's just kind of a small-ish jerk; like a yipping Chihuahua.  I couldn't take him seriously.  In the comics, Flash ends up as a Venom symbiote host as well.  I can see Joe Manganiello in that role.  I can't see this new guy. 
•  
• I get that the Vulture is trying to work covertly, but some of the biggest action sequences that he took part of was a jumbled mess of a dark costume against a night sky.  Maybe it was the theater I was in, but I couldn't make heads or tails out of the initial tussle between Spidey and Vulture, when Peter got dropped into the lake.  The same could be said, to a lesser extent, about the final heist.
•  
• As someone else said, I'm fine with most of what they are doing with MJ...I just don't understand changing her name to Michelle.  It seems they did that just to throw people off the scent for 2 hours.  It felt a lot like what they did with Robin in The Dark Knight Rises, only Nolan was a bit more artful in what he did.  I feel like calling MJ "Michelle" early on was an intentional red herring that could have been avoided completely if they just avoided calling her by her name until the end of the movie.  Now we are stuck with a non-Mary Jane MJ in this universe.  Strange. 
•  
• Also, where the heck are the Sekovia Accords and those who should enforce them?  So far as we know, the Accords are still in effect, meaning all enhanced/powered individuals mustn't act without authorization.  Given that Tony was very Pro-Accord (hence Civil War), it stands to reason that if Tony recruited Spidey to help fight Cap's team, Peter must have signed the accords, right?  So either he did sign and he's breaking the rules by acting on his own or he didn't sign and he's an outlaw that the government could ask Tony to bring to justice at any time. 
•  
• They stated that this movie's events take place 8 years after the Battle of New York.  For the most part, the MCU has been occurring in real time.  Different lines of dialogue both in the movies and in Agents of SHIELD seem to back this up.  Iron Man came about in 2008, the Battle of New York happened 4 years later in 2012.  But apparently this movie takes place 2 months after Civil War?  Is that 2020?  Does this movie take place in the future?  Has the Infinity War happened yet?  I've read that some of these dates have since been retconned.  The main point is that leaving the dates ambiguous gives more wiggle room and less chance for making an error while making the movies a little more timeless.  Just say "Years Later", not "8 Years Later"
•  
• We didn't get to see much swinging in this movie.  In fact, Peter mentioned he had never been so high up when he was on the Washington Monument.  I'm surprised he hasn't done much skyscraper work in NYC. 

But there was a lot of good.  The "Suit Lady" gave Spidey someone to talk to so the exposition didn't seem so forced.  Plus, the tech made for some pretty entertaining moments.  Insta-kill and Interrogation mode both made me laugh out loud.  But I still don't trust Stark building a suit for Spidey.  I can see it biting Peter in the long run.  In the comics when Tony gave Peter the Iron Spider suit, the suit was running scans while Peter wore it to give Stark the data he needed to build a counter to Peter's Spider-sense.  Stark is always working an angle.  Be wary. 

It was nice to see a young Peter.  From an age standpoint, this was the most comic-accurate movie to date.  In the comics, Peter was only 15 when he got the powers.  This movie felt very true to those origins.  Tom Holland did a great job with it.

I really like Michael Keaton as the Vulture.  Great job.  We also got nods to Tinkerer, Shocker, and Scorpion, which was nice.  Spider-man 3's video game adaptation had a great sub-plot with Mac Gargan/Scorpion.  It looks like if he's the main antagonist for the next movie, it won't be the same, but it's shaping up to be pretty good. 

I LOVED the webbing effects.  You really got the sense that the webs shot out with a good amount of force, which was cool to see. 

Overall, very enjoyable.  8/10.  I'd be happy to see it again, but Spider-man 2 is still the best Spidey movie in my book. 

[fantastic_four]

Zendaya's character isn't Mary Jane.  Feige explicitly said they may still introduce Mary Jane into the movies, and if they do, it won't be Zendaya.  She's just another potential love interest.

I figured Happy's job essentially was to make sure Peter didn't do anything to rise to a level where the Sekovia accords would apply to him.  Yes, theoretically, Stark could be asked to bring Peter to justice, and if he were I assume he'd go to Peter and say "stop fighting crime, or join the Avengers, or we're coming after you."  But as long as Peter is going after individual criminals and not Thanos, what he's doing doesn't rise to an international scale, so the people who enforce the Sekovia accords probably don't even know he exists.

Edited July 10, 2017 by fantastic_four

[piper]

I personally liked that they didn't do another retread storyline with Uncle Ben and with power comes responsibility....

They did an excellent job of modernizing the character without taking away the core elements of what makes spider-man cool and fun.

Tony Stark being the mentor was just away to tie him into the larger MCU. 

I never understand why people get upset when they don't translate things literally to the screen.

I would like to see what Feige could do with FF.  

Marvel IMHO appears to be able to do no wrong.  It will happen eventually but I'm just amazed at this string of successful movies.

 

[fantastic_four]

Just now, piper said:

I personally liked that they didn't do another retread storyline with Uncle Ben and with power comes responsibility....

Yea, I don't get those protests in the thread either.  Uncle Ben's death is his core, and we already know that.  They said they're not going to re-tell the origin because they've already done it twice, yet people seem to need a third rendering of it, a re-telling of it because it's a new iteration.  Tony Stark wasn't Peter's motivation in this film, he was just a motivation layered on top of his core motivation.

[fantastic_four]

Another Feige confirmation is that Aunt May does in fact learn Peter's secret identity in that last scene.

[Turtle]

1 hour ago, piper said:

I personally liked that they didn't do another retread storyline with Uncle Ben and with power comes responsibility....

They did an excellent job of modernizing the character without taking away the core elements of what makes spider-man cool and fun.

Tony Stark being the mentor was just away to tie him into the larger MCU. 

I never understand why people get upset when they don't translate things literally to the screen.

I would like to see what Feige could do with FF.  

Marvel IMHO appears to be able to do no wrong.  It will happen eventually but I'm just amazed at this string of successful movies.

 

I'm not sure if this was triggered by my post or not, but I'll bite in any case. 

I'm certainly not saying we need to re-hash the Uncle Ben storyline.  We already know the deal.  Similar to the way we didn't need to see a gamma bomb to know what happened to Bruce in the Incredible Hulk. 

My gripe is that we don't feel the sacrifice that Spidey exhibits in his early years as a hero in this movie.  Sure, he tells his academic decathlon team that he can't go to a meet, but he does it to be available to Stark, not because he feels any type of responsibility to the people of the city.  He also doesn't seem to feel any kind of remorse for the collateral damage he causes.  He doesn't seem to feel the burden of responsibility in this movie.  He showed it a bit in his introduction in Civil War, but not really here.  I only bring it up because I find responsibility central to his character.  It feels a bit like if Batman's parents hadn't have been murdered in front of him.  Without that defining event, his motivation would be muddled and the character wouldn't be the same. 

In Spider-man 2, we get that sense of responsibility without getting beaten over the head with it.  At this point, Peter is broke and seemingly only owns 2 outfits...Spidey and 1 civilian outfit.  He loses his job because he's helping people in trouble.  He can't have a relationship with the girl of his dreams who is practically throwing herself at him because he doesn't want to put her in danger.  We feel his heroic struggle without having to devote a lot of time to the Uncle Ben event. 

Regarding the Sekovia Accords, I have a hard time believing that the people who enforce the Accords don't know Spider-man exists.  His videos seems popular on youtube and he was hand-selected for a mission shortly after the Accords took effect by the pro-registration poster boy, Tony Stark.  If nothing else, Spidey's exploits at the Washington Monument would surely be enough to garner government attention if he didn't already have it.  The Accords don't seem to have any leeway when it comes to scale of activity.  Either you're registered and you're using your powers when told, or you're not using your powers.  Agents of SHIELD has shown a few examples of this.  Yo-yo started out only fighting local crime and was still brought in and registered, for example.  I'm not sure there will be a great explanation for the lack of Accords enforcement in this movie.  Just something to accept.  This type of thing is bound to happen when you start expanding your universe...certain liberties will need to be taken. 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the movie.  These are just a few of the things that came up when thinking about it after about 24 hours.  I think the fact that I'm still thinking about it is a testament to the movie itself. 

[fantastic_four]

21 minutes ago, Turtle said:

I'm not sure there will be a great explanation for the lack of Accords enforcement in this movie.  Just something to accept.

Stark was clearly intending to suck him into the Avengers throughout the film, and that explains it.  The Washington Monument incident could be what tipped the scale for the reason you outlined more than what he did against the Vulture.  The real question is why he allowed him to decline the Avengers invite without giving him a Sekovia Accords speech.

[fantastic_four]

30 minutes ago, Turtle said:

My gripe is that we don't feel the sacrifice that Spidey exhibits in his early years as a hero in this movie.  Sure, he tells his academic decathlon team that he can't go to a meet, but he does it to be available to Stark, not because he feels any type of responsibility to the people of the city.  He also doesn't seem to feel any kind of remorse for the collateral damage he causes.  He doesn't seem to feel the burden of responsibility in this movie.  He showed it a bit in his introduction in Civil War, but not really here.  I only bring it up because I find responsibility central to his character.  It feels a bit like if Batman's parents hadn't have been murdered in front of him.  Without that defining event, his motivation would be muddled and the character wouldn't be the same. 

Almost as if he were an immature 15-year old.  

[piper]

I think it's a top 5 MCU movie for me, maybe even WInter Soldier or Iron Man good. 

[Bosco685]

16 minutes ago, piper said:

I think it's a top 5 MCU movie for me, maybe even WInter Soldier or Iron Man good. 

Wow! It didn't have that impact on me. But that doesn't detract from your feelings about the movie. Just depending on the individual and what they expect I guess.

But I do agree Spider-Man: Homecoming was a good movie, and between Tom Holland and Michael Keaton they had nailed some top actors.