Mass Delusion and Comic Collecting?

[wombat]

 

 

Frances Mountain, left, sorts out Beanie Babies with her ex-husband, Harold Mountain, in a Las Vegas courtroom in 1999. The couple was unable to split the collection by themselves, so they spread it on the courtroom floor and divided it up under the judge’s supervision. Maple the Bear was the first to go.

 

[Vikingreed]

Wonder how they chose who went first...?

[Bookery]

As long as platinum savings accounts are yielding .02%, people will continue to buy comics, stocks, records, concert posters, coins, pretty much anything that doesn't require 360,000 years to double your money. Will it end well? Who knows, but do you have any better ideas on where to park part of your money? I look at Nasdaq 5000 and remember what happened the last time we got there and 10 year bonds at 1.9% are about as exciting as rubbing one off to a Readers Digest. International stocks look enticing but Europe keeps chasing good money after bad in Greece and oh so many foreign countries are dependent on higher oil prices.

 

Compared to some of this stuff blue-chip Golden Age Timely's look cheap.

 

 

My traditional investments have been doing pretty well for the last four years

 

10 year bonds are only 1.9%? What a rip off. I'm getting about that as a yearly dividend from my S&P index (and it's up on the year as well). And if Nasdaq at 5000 worries you (with a P/E ratio of about 22) how must comics at all time highs worry you (with a P/E ratio of ∞?).

 

This Time It's Different™

 

The Nasdaq composite is front loaded with tech giants with P/E ratios (Share Price/Earnings Per Share or profit over earnings-PE ratio) in the mid to high teens. AAPL, INTC, MSFT,CSCO are all massive companies with growth rates not necessarily attractive for PE's at these levels. The average PE for stocks throughout the last 60 years or so is a smidge above 15. So, yes, if you think expensive stocks in a lagging economy is a great place to park new money, be my guest. Just don't say I didn't try to warn you. The stock market is c urrently expensive.

 

Hulk head hurt ....

 

Yeah... I invested with Hulk during that brief time he worked as a broker for Merrill Lynch. I got sucked in by his catchy mottos, "Make more green with Green", and "Hulk profits smash other investments!". Problem was, everytime the DOW dipped he went on a rampage. My portfolio didn't end well.

 

 

[Hamlet]

One thing that I find interesting is that there still appears to be tons of E-bay sales of beanie babies, albeit at very low prices.

 

Lots of people are still buying and selling these things. A few of them even appear to still actually have some significant ($100+) value.

[1950's war comics]

Its amazing that some are giving advice that silver age keys are a surefire guarantee to go up in value. of course this is the internet and anyone can say just about anything, but to give investment recommendations without mentioning that past performance has no impact on future increase in value is not giving the whole story and hopefully nobody is being influenced by these reckless opinions.

It has been mentioned in other threads and i also believe that the movie hype is bringing in very few if any brand new comic collectors willing to spend thousands on silver age keys.

The rich and famous with hobby mentalities gravitate to coin collecting and other pursuits, not comic books- this could change, most likely not,,,

Comics are a very fun hobby, and everyone should have a hobby,....but comics are not liquid, they are perishable even when slabbed. they are not portable in anything more than small amounts.

when the time comes to sell it takes an enormous effort to sell for anywhere near their value.

My two cents worth.

[spidrvacc]

I worked with someone who spent alot of money on Beanie Babies , Was like 15 years ago I think. She was a financial trader in my office and got hooked. She was constantly getting reprimanded for spending work time on Beanie babies. We all thought she was crazy. She wound up losing alot of money. Was sad.

 

Heres a family that lost $100,000 on Beanie Babies

 

http://qz.com/114753/meet-the-family-who-lost-100000-when-the-beanie-baby-bubble-burst/

 

When Chris Robinson’s father started collecting Beanie Babies, he thought he could use the eventual profits to pay for five college tuitions. Instead, he ended up spending upwards of $100,000 (Robinson’s estimate, based on average cost for each) for a collection of 20,000 stuffed animals that still sit in his garage.

[spidrvacc]

 

 

Frances Mountain, left, sorts out Beanie Babies with her ex-husband, Harold Mountain, in a Las Vegas courtroom in 1999. The couple was unable to split the collection by themselves, so they spread it on the courtroom floor and divided it up under the judge’s supervision. Maple the Bear was the first to go.

 

 

 

That picture is embarrassing. Imagine being one of them looking back on that photo.

[spidrvacc]

I first hand also saw the Sports Card Market crash. Friend was a dealer. He litterally lost thousands overnight. Still has 100K in cards in sealed packs still in his attic last time I spoke to him about it 6-7 years ago. Literally overnight the sports card market just fell. Reminds me alot of the current Modern comic market . ALot of artificial collectibles. Did we not learn anything during the Valiant/Image fiasco. Lucky the comic book market survived.I know alot of guys who got burnt who never bought another comic. And absolutley tru story here. Just last week I told one of them (a Star Wars fan) to buy Darth Vader # 1 to read. I loved it. So did he but then he texts me that he just founf out there are all these other variant Darth Vader #1's . I explained it to him and told him just buy the regular to read, disregard the variant stuff. his exact response was "This is why I do not buy comic books anymore". Again I repeated just buy th regular issues to read, forget the variants , etc.

[1Cool]

 

 

Frances Mountain, left, sorts out Beanie Babies with her ex-husband, Harold Mountain, in a Las Vegas courtroom in 1999. The couple was unable to split the collection by themselves, so they spread it on the courtroom floor and divided it up under the judge’s supervision. Maple the Bear was the first to go.

 

 

 

That picture is embarrassing. Imagine being one of them looking back on that photo.

 

That sure is a "mountain" of beanie babies.

[SquareChaos]

Please I beg of everyone,,, do not commit financial suicide by slabbing moderns

 

While I agree it is a crazy, speculator heavy modern comic market... I completely disagree with this sort of thinking.

 

Slab what you want - I have many slabbed moderns. Not because I think they're worth something, but because I love them.

 

The argument could even be made for slabbing moderns for financial purposes... some people make a great deal of money doing so.

 

Can't you love them in their raw state?

 

 

Lets all do so for all of our comics, then there will be no need for CGC!

[Darkowl]

I have vague memories of listening to it 15 or so years ago when I had a job that kept me up all night working.

 

I remember lots of talk about Lizard people and giants.

 

The Lizard people are still around and they they still come up.

 

These shows are cool if unbelievable Just interesting to listen to. Problem is they come on way too late , like 2AM. Conspiracy radio shows also are interesting. Here in Nj used to get the Clyde Lewis show Ground Zero . All about the Illuminati etc.

 

Ground Zero!

 

They have a podcast now, so you don't need to listen to commercials.

[jcjames]

Pockets of the comic market definitely seem like this. Hopefully any eventual crash doesn't destroy the wider more mature market for established keys.

The elements of a "speculative craze" that jumped out at me were:

 

*Media hype (comic book movies on fire, he-got-rich articles, new tv shows, etc.)

*Manipulated Scarcity (dozens of variant covers, commons rare if "in grade" applied, etc.)

*A focus on future-wealth by acquiring newly produces items (latest hot item breakouts and chase, etc.)

 

To point out a few. And I don't think I'm imagining those things. They're going on, full throttle.

No, it's different this time.

 

 

 

[The-Collector]

As long as platinum savings accounts are yielding .02%, people will continue to buy comics, stocks, records, concert posters, coins, pretty much anything that doesn't require 360,000 years to double your money. Will it end well? Who knows, but do you have any better ideas on where to park part of your money? I look at Nasdaq 5000 and remember what happened the last time we got there and 10 year bonds at 1.9% are about as exciting as rubbing one off to a Readers Digest. International stocks look enticing but Europe keeps chasing good money after bad in Greece and oh so many foreign countries are dependent on higher oil prices.

 

Compared to some of this stuff blue-chip Golden Age Timely's look cheap.

 

 

My traditional investments have been doing pretty well for the last four years

 

10 year bonds are only 1.9%? What a rip off. I'm getting about that as a yearly dividend from my S&P index (and it's up on the year as well). And if Nasdaq at 5000 worries you (with a P/E ratio of about 22) how must comics at all time highs worry you (with a P/E ratio of ∞?).

 

This Time It's Different™

 

The Nasdaq composite is front loaded with tech giants with P/E ratios (Share Price/Earnings Per Share or profit over earnings-PE ratio) in the mid to high teens. AAPL, INTC, MSFT,CSCO are all massive companies with growth rates not necessarily attractive for PE's at these levels. The average PE for stocks throughout the last 60 years or so is a smidge above 15. So, yes, if you think expensive stocks in a lagging economy is a great place to park new money, be my guest. Just don't say I didn't try to warn you. The stock market is c urrently expensive.

 

Hulk head hurt ....

 

Yeah... I invested with Hulk during that brief time he worked as a broker for Merrill Lynch. I got sucked in by his catchy mottos, "Make more green with Green", and "Hulk profits smash other investments!". Problem was, everytime the DOW dipped he went on a rampage. My portfolio didn't end well.

 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Davenport]

Pockets of the comic market definitely seem like this. Hopefully any eventual crash doesn't destroy the wider more mature market for established keys.

The elements of a "speculative craze" that jumped out at me were:

 

*Media hype (comic book movies on fire, he-got-rich articles, new tv shows, etc.)

*Manipulated Scarcity (dozens of variant covers, commons rare if "in grade" applied, etc.)

*A focus on future-wealth by acquiring newly produced items (latest hot item breakouts and chase, etc.)

 

To point out a few. And I don't think I'm imagining those things. They're going on, full throttle.

No, it's different this time.

 

 

What I think might be different now is what the internet has evolved into.

Beanie Babies were a huge nationwide phenomenon involving McDonalds, Ebay, retail stores, and so on. Today the internet's small niches and factions can group-delude and group-support, keeping things in play for a longer haul.

I don't know if I'm saying that right, but I know what I mean. Tribes vs Societies, different dynamics to maintain a craze?

[NewWorldOrder]

Please I beg of everyone,,, do not commit financial suicide by slabbing moderns

 

Edit please say most moderns.....

 

If you slabbed 100 copies of Walking dead #1 you could buy a house.

[Dr. Balls]

Please I beg of everyone,,, do not commit financial suicide by slabbing moderns

 

Edit please say most moderns.....

 

If you slabbed 100 copies of Walking dead #1 you could buy a house.

 

If you slabbed 10,000 1950's War Comics, you could buy a really nice one of these:

 

[ItsJustRyan]

 

Balls

[ItsJustRyan]

Listening to a snippet of this last night I thought, 'Holy , he could be talking about today's comic collecting'.

Begins at minute-mark 12:50 and ends at 32:00 minutes.

 

It's an author discussing a new book The Great Beanie Baby Bubble: Mass Delusion and the Dark Side of Cute. The stories are insane and a lot of the elements that make up a 'speculative craze' are undeniably present with today's comic books.

Well worth the time to take a listen, a quick 'school of hard knocks' in depth eye-opener. Really good stuff.

 

I heard this guy (Beanie Babies) in a radio interview and it's really interesting stuff. I ALMOST bought the book

 

In seriousness, the Beanie Baby craze and crash was due to - in part - misinformation, scarcity, and then manufactured scarcity. As others have said, the Internet is a game changer (I had that phrase) when it comes to collectibles.

[PovertyRow]

Please I beg of everyone,,, do not commit financial suicide by slabbing moderns

 

Edit please say most moderns.....

 

If you slabbed 100 copies of Walking dead #1 you could buy a house.

 

If you slabbed 10,000 1950's War Comics, you could buy a really nice one of these:

 

 

[Quicksilver Signs]

Listening to a snippet of this last night I thought, 'Holy , he could be talking about today's comic collecting'.

Begins at minute-mark 12:50 and ends at 32:00 minutes.

 

It's an author discussing a new book The Great Beanie Baby Bubble: Mass Delusion and the Dark Side of Cute. The stories are insane and a lot of the elements that make up a 'speculative craze' are undeniably present with today's comic books.

Well worth the time to take a listen, a quick 'school of hard knocks' in depth eye-opener. Really good stuff.

 

I heard this guy (Beanie Babies) in a radio interview and it's really interesting stuff. I ALMOST bought the book

 

In seriousness, the Beanie Baby craze and crash was due to - in part - misinformation, scarcity, and then manufactured scarcity. As others have said, the Internet is a game changer (I had that phrase) when it comes to collectibles.

 

Manufactured scarcity? Kinda like: variant covers. Misinformation? Sorta like: bronze books are hard to find in high grade.