What happened to More Fun #73?

[jimbo_707]

But with Whiz #1, I think it's important that Captain Marvel was once the best selling character in comics, that he was featured prominently on the front cover and that the book hit newsstands in December of 1939.

 

Ok, ... let me think about that.

 

Is there a book that is character-cover-challenged like MF 73 is, and came out in 1941 like MF 73 did, and that -- also due to rarity -- has experienced an even greater recent market run-up than MF 73 has so far?

 

 

 

 

Ok, haha... fun and games aside, of course there is such a book. I am too lazy to dig out my old overstreets to accurately assess this book's historical place in the scheme of things, but in 2010, the big O had it at 1/5 the value of Bat 1, for whatever that may be worth.

 

Currently, the market says this book is in the same general price class as Bat 1 and Cap 1.

 

Of course I'm talking about Pep 22.

 

Is Archie as important as Joker + Catwoman?

Is Archie as important as Green Arrow + Aquaman?

Are there as many serious Archie collectors as there are Batman or Cap collectors?

Project forward 5 years. 10 years. What then?

 

Are current Pep 22 values more sustainable than current MF 73 values? Why or why not?

Archie Comics seem to be more popular with women than with men. The only way current Pep 22 prices become sustainable is if significantly women come to the hobby and are willing to spend big bucks on comics. It hasn't happened so far. There are a quite a few female comic readers out there, but so far as I can tell, there aren't many female collectors. Women don't seem to measure their self-worth in terms of their possessions the way men do, so I suspect that female collectors will be a lot less concerned about things like census rank, etc.

[Sqeggs]

But with Whiz #1, I think it's important that Captain Marvel was once the best selling character in comics, that he was featured prominently on the front cover and that the book hit newsstands in December of 1939.

 

Ok, ... let me think about that.

 

Is there a book that is character-cover-challenged like MF 73 is, and came out in 1941 like MF 73 did, and that -- also due to rarity -- has experienced an even greater recent market run-up than MF 73 has so far?

 

 

 

 

Ok, haha... fun and games aside, of course there is such a book. I am too lazy to dig out my old overstreets to accurately assess this book's historical place in the scheme of things, but in 2010, the big O had it at 1/5 the value of Bat 1, for whatever that may be worth.

 

Currently, the market says this book is in the same general price class as Bat 1 and Cap 1.

 

Of course I'm talking about Pep 22.

 

Is Archie as important as Joker + Catwoman?

Is Archie as important as Green Arrow + Aquaman?

Are there as many serious Archie collectors as there are Batman or Cap collectors?

Project forward 5 years. 10 years. What then?

 

Are current Pep 22 values more sustainable than current MF 73 values? Why or why not?

Archie Comics seem to be more popular with women than with men. The only way current Pep 22 prices become sustainable is if significantly women come to the hobby and are willing to spend big bucks on comics. It hasn't happened so far. There are a quite a few female comic readers out there, but so far as I can tell, there aren't many female collectors. Women don't seem to measure their self-worth in terms of their possessions the way men do, so I suspect that female collectors will be a lot less concerned about thinks like census rank, etc.

 

I don't know, with only 10 unrestored copies graded, Pep 22 is just a very, very tough book. Impossible to forecast these things accurately -- I would be rich by now if I could! -- but I think it's much more likely to sustain its value than is MF 73.

[jimbo_707]

But with Whiz #1, I think it's important that Captain Marvel was once the best selling character in comics, that he was featured prominently on the front cover and that the book hit newsstands in December of 1939.

 

Ok, ... let me think about that.

 

Is there a book that is character-cover-challenged like MF 73 is, and came out in 1941 like MF 73 did, and that -- also due to rarity -- has experienced an even greater recent market run-up than MF 73 has so far?

 

 

 

 

Ok, haha... fun and games aside, of course there is such a book. I am too lazy to dig out my old overstreets to accurately assess this book's historical place in the scheme of things, but in 2010, the big O had it at 1/5 the value of Bat 1, for whatever that may be worth.

 

Currently, the market says this book is in the same general price class as Bat 1 and Cap 1.

 

Of course I'm talking about Pep 22.

 

Is Archie as important as Joker + Catwoman?

Is Archie as important as Green Arrow + Aquaman?

Are there as many serious Archie collectors as there are Batman or Cap collectors?

Project forward 5 years. 10 years. What then?

 

Are current Pep 22 values more sustainable than current MF 73 values? Why or why not?

Archie Comics seem to be more popular with women than with men. The only way current Pep 22 prices become sustainable is if significantly women come to the hobby and are willing to spend big bucks on comics. It hasn't happened so far. There are a quite a few female comic readers out there, but so far as I can tell, there aren't many female collectors. Women don't seem to measure their self-worth in terms of their possessions the way men do, so I suspect that female collectors will be a lot less concerned about thinks like census rank, etc.

 

I don't know, with only 10 unrestored copies graded, Pep 22 is just a very, very tough book. Impossible to forecast these things accurately -- I would be rich by now if I could! -- but I think it's much more likely to sustain its value than is MF 73.

No argument there! I can't see MF 73 sustaining its value in any realistic scenario. Maybe if the Aquaman movie turns into the next Star Wars and runs in theaters for 2 years straight.

[rjpb]

Pep 22 has had steady increase in value over the last 15 years to get to the point it's at now. I could be wrong but I don't recall it jumping 10 fold in a single year.

 

Only the more super-hero centric collector would argue that Aquaman and Green Arrow have had the sustained cultural impact that Archie has. Archie is an iconic character on the level of Superman or Donald Duck, or at least closer to it than Aquaman will ever be. I'm sure exponentially more people could tell you Archie is than have ever watched Arrow, and that a sizable portion of those who do watch the show don't even know it's based on a comic book character.

[Wayne-Tec]

Of course I'm talking about Pep 22.

 

Is Archie as important as Joker + Catwoman?

Is Archie as important as Green Arrow + Aquaman?

Are there as many serious Archie collectors as there are Batman or Cap collectors?

Project forward 5 years. 10 years. What then?

 

Are current Pep 22 values more sustainable than current MF 73 values? Why or why not?

 

It's tough for me to comment on Pep #22 as 1) it is a completely different genre and 2) I am not an Archie collector.

 

From the outside looking in, I could see there being more desirability for Archie than for Aquaman + Green Arrow.

 

By the CGC census:

 

Pep Comics #22: 10 blue label = 21 total

More Fun #73: 24 blue label = 37 total

 

So beyond my gut instinct (which could be wrong BTW) of Archie > Aquaman/Green Arrow, there is a pretty substantial difference in scarcity as far as CGC slabbed examples go.

[Dark Knight]

Pep 22 > MF 73 in the long run

[markseifert]

Archie is an iconic character on the level of Superman or Donald Duck, or at least closer to it than Aquaman will ever be.

 

I get that, to a point, but there's a lot of territory between those examples, in terms of how they apply to comics.

 

If Pep 22 is more like Action 1, bright future.

 

If Pep 22 is more like Four Color 9, or Four Color 4 (to bring the comparison in line in terms of scarcity), not so much.

 

I have extensive collecting interests outside of comics, and true cultural importance REALLY matters to me, but it does change with the times.

 

There used to be a character named Frank Merriwell who was not all that much different than Archie. More adventure than comedy, but school adventures, him, his buddies, girls who liked him, etc. He sold MASSIVE, unbelievable amounts of periodicals in his time, multiple series, one of them 800+ issues long. Movies. Radio. Comic strip. People got rich off of him. His publisher went on to become a pulp and comic publisher of some note.

 

In 1947 the NY Times said: "There have been only three characters in history who ever could call their shots with uncanny exactitude, Superman, Frank Merriwell and Babe Ruth."

 

Important to millions a century ago, important to me and maybe 5 other people today. So it goes.

 

 

 

 

[rjpb]

Archie is an iconic character on the level of Superman or Donald Duck, or at least closer to it than Aquaman will ever be.

 

I get that, to a point, but there's a lot of territory between those examples, in terms of how they apply to comics.

 

If Pep 22 is more like Action 1, bright future.

 

If Pep 22 is more like Four Color 9, or Four Color 4 (to bring the comparison in line in terms of scarcity), not so much.

 

I have extensive collecting interests outside of comics, and true cultural importance REALLY matters to me, but it does change with the times.

 

There used to be a character named Frank Merriwell who was not all that much different than Archie. More adventure than comedy, but school adventures, him, his buddies, girls who liked him, etc. He sold MASSIVE, unbelievable amounts of periodicals in his time, multiple series, one of them 800+ issues long. Movies. Radio. Comic strip. People got rich off of him. His publisher went on to become a pulp and comic publisher of some note.

 

In 1947 the NY Times said: "There have been only three characters in history who ever could call their shots with uncanny exactitude, Superman, Frank Merriwell and Babe Ruth."

 

Important to millions a century ago, important to me and maybe 5 other people today. So it goes.

 

 

 

 

Good points, particularly about Frank Merriwell - not so much for comparisons to Archie, but as an observation that even decades long popularity can be forgotten. Nick Carter also comes to mind. Something to think about when trying to extrapolate the future value of some newly hot properties that have been around for years.

 

Comparing Archie to DD in terms of comic book values is a bit tricky, as Donald had appeared in animation,newspaper strips, and European comic prior to FC #9, and that comic Donald is most associated with Carl Barks who didn't draw him until later.

 

On the other hand, the lack of a cover appearance, and that superheroes are more associated with comic books than any other genre, dominating in terms of high value collectability in every era, would lead me to believe that Pep #22 will never get anywhere near Action #1 or Detective #27 levels of value, regardless of how popular Archie were to become.

[Big Moov]

To me, it's better when the 1st appearance of a character is NOT on the cover. Obscure beginnings are the best. I love it when an iconic character started-out as nothing more than an obscure short back-up story, where he just showed-up out-of-nowhere and started fighting crime. That's fascinating to me. Much more-so than if a character started-out famous right from the get-go. Like a prominent cover-appearance in a #1 issue, along with heavy marketing and heavy distribution. Coming out-of-nowhere is more interesting to me than being destined for stardom.

 

Aquaman is a Top-6 DC character. DC has been promoting him as such since the 1960's. And they should know, right? And Green Arrow is just a spot or 2 behind him. So put that together, and what do you get? We know what Superman and Batman 1st appearances are worth. So the question becomes: How much distance do you want between the Top-2, and the next 2-4.

 

And the rarity factor of MF-73 is a bonus.

 

Lastly, I have to say once more to emphasize - the most ridiculous thing to me is the idea that being on the cover is important. I couldn't care less about that. I know that if I break-open the CGC case, I can see the character. I don't have to go to the safety deposit box and admire my character . I know he's in there.

[Jaydogrules]

To me, it's better when the 1st appearance of a character is NOT on the cover. Obscure beginnings are the best. I love it when an iconic character started-out as nothing more than an obscure 4-page back-up story, where he just showed-up out-of-nowhere and started fighting crime. That's fascinating to me. Much more-so than if a character started-out famous right from the get-go. Like a prominent cover-appearance in a #1 issue, along with heavy marketing and heavy distribution. Coming out-of-nowhere is more interesting to me than being destined for stardom.

 

Aquaman is a Top-6 DC character. DC has been promoting him as such since the 1960's. And they should know, right? And Green Arrow is just a spot or 2 behind him. So put that together, and what do you get? We know what Superman and Batman 1st appearances are worth. So the question becomes: How much distance do you want between the Top-2, and the next 2-4.

 

And the rarity factor of MF-73 is a bonus.

 

I must vociferously disagree with this statement.

 

Neither character is likely even a top 20 (DC) character, let alone top 10.

 

-J.

 

[Phill the Governor]

Aquaman and Green Arrow are top tier DC characters in the same way that Ant Man is a top tier Marvel character.

 

 

[SuperBird]

Top DC characters:

 

Batman

Superman

Wonder Woman

Flash

Green Lantern

...

 

Aquaman would be 6, unless I am missing something.

 

 

 

[jimbo_707]

Aquaman is a Top-6 DC character. . . . How much distance do you want between the Top-2, and the next 2-4.

You could argue that DC really only has 5 big superheroes: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, and Green Lantern. You could almost call any other hero 6th because anyone you could name would be leagues behind the other five. But you didn't say Aquaman was a top-6 superhero, you said he was a top-6 character, and that, sir, is absurd. Many villains and sidekicks—The Joker, Catwoman, Lex Luthor, Lois Lane, ROBIN—would rank ahead of Aquaman in overall importance.

 

Lastly, I have to say once more to emphasize - the most ridiculous thing to me is the idea that being on the cover is important. I couldn't care less about that. I know that if I break-open the CGC case, I can see the character. I don't have to go to the safety deposit box and admire my character . I know he's in there.

You know he's in there? That sounds incredibly sexist. You know that there are female superheroes, right? You could have said, "I know he or she is in there" or even "I know she is in there." You don't have to choose the male pronoun every time.

[nearmint]

To no one in particular...you know who the top DC characters are to my 7-year-old and all his friends? The members of Teen Titans Go.

[Sqeggs]

Comparing Archie to DD in terms of comic book values is a bit tricky, as Donald had appeared in animation,newspaper strips, and European comic prior to FC #9, and that comic Donald is most associated with Carl Barks who didn't draw him until later.

 

On the other hand, the lack of a cover appearance, and that superheroes are more associated with comic books than any other genre, dominating in terms of high value collectability in every era, would lead me to believe that Pep #22 will never get anywhere near Action #1 or Detective #27 levels of value, regardless of how popular Archie were to become.

 

Technically, Barks did do about half the art on the main story in FC 9, but you make a good point that the book isn't in any real sense the start of DD and so fails to get the kind of boost that Pep 22 gets from being the definitive start of Archie.

[rjpb]

Comparing Archie to DD in terms of comic book values is a bit tricky, as Donald had appeared in animation,newspaper strips, and European comic prior to FC #9, and that comic Donald is most associated with Carl Barks who didn't draw him until later.

 

On the other hand, the lack of a cover appearance, and that superheroes are more associated with comic books than any other genre, dominating in terms of high value collectability in every era, would lead me to believe that Pep #22 will never get anywhere near Action #1 or Detective #27 levels of value, regardless of how popular Archie were to become.

 

Technically, Barks did do about half the art on the main story in FC 9, but you make a good point that the book isn't in any real sense the start of DD and so fails to get the kind of boost that Pep 22 gets from being the definitive start of Archie.

 

I stand corrected. I remember reading the story years ago, and for some reason hadn't remembered it as being by Barks.

[markseifert]

Technically, Barks did do about half the art on the main story in FC 9, but you make a good point that the book isn't in any real sense the start of DD and so fails to get the kind of boost that Pep 22 gets from being the definitive start of Archie.

 

Fwiw, this is a bit outside my wheelhouse but I looked at some of the Barks duck keys when I was deciding what comparison to make there and the recent market history of Barks Ducks is not good, overall. The comparison is actually most favorable to DD if you just look at FC4. I should have also included WDCS 1, which also has mostly held its ground to upticked slightly.

[Big Moov]

It's 100% that Aquaman is a Top-6 DC superhero. Look at the DC website - they list the Top-6. That's enough proof right there.

 

Look at the DC Encyclopedia, where the top heroes & villains are given a 2-page spread. Aquaman is one of about 10 heroes to have it. And Green Arrow has it too by the way. Look at the DC stamps, or whenever DC does a promotion of their top all-time heroes. Aquaman is always there. Look at the animated movies. Look at the number of Facebook fans - Aquaman is, you guessed it, #6. How was Aquaman billed on his television show, and on the Superfriends show? For years and years, Aquaman, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman were called "the world's 4 greatest superheroes". Etc., etc.

 

This is not opinion, this is fact.

 

 

PS....Jimbo, feel free to disagree with me on anything I say. But calling-me-out for saying "he" instead of "he or she"....really ??

 

PPS....Don't jump on my 'Superfriends' comment . That's just to show they've been giving him top-4 (or top-6) billing for a long time. If you disagree....like those who said Aquaman is not even Top-20....please refute my other points. Like refute the DC website and encyclopedia. And name 10 or 20 heroes that rank higher in DC.

[sagii]

I would rank Aquaman no. 7 behind

Superman

Batman

ROBIN( why do we always leave out Robin?!?!)

Wonder Woman

The Flash

[The-Collector]

It's 100% that Aquaman is a Top-6 DC superhero. Look at the DC website - they list the Top-6. That's enough proof right there.

 

Look at the DC Encyclopedia, where the top heroes & villains are given a 2-page spread. Aquaman is one of about 10 heroes to have it. And Green Arrow has it too by the way. Look at the DC stamps, or whenever DC does a promotion of their top all-time heroes. Aquaman is always there. Look at the animated movies. Look at the number of Facebook fans - Aquaman is, you guessed it, #6. How was Aquaman billed on his television show, and on the Superfriends show? For years and years, Aquaman, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman were called "the world's 4 greatest superheroes". Etc., etc.

 

This is not opinion, this is fact.

 

 

PS....Jimbo, feel free to disagree with me on anything I say. But calling-me-out for saying "he" instead of "he or she"....really ??

 

PPS....Don't jump on my 'Superfriends' comment . That's just to show they've been giving him top-4 (or top-6) billing for a long time. If you disagree....like those who said Aquaman is not even Top-20....please refute my other points. Like refute the DC website and encyclopedia. And name 10 or 20 heroes that rank higher in DC.

 

I agree, seemed to be nitpicking to me. People use gendered pronouns out of habit not because they actually intend to exclude either sex.