Star Wars: Rogue One 1 1

[akaSteveRogers]

Kylo Ren was a bad until he took his mask off.

 

[kimik]

And Liam Neeson may have been the best guy to yield a lightsaber other than Ray Park. Particularly loved how he meditated in the middle of those force fields separating the two of them during the battle. Their fight was spellbounding, and I have many times re-watched only that fight from the movie.

 

That's my only gripe about Force Awakens--the Kylo v Rey battle was interesting, but just not at all epic since Rey clearly only had any chance at all because Kylo was wounded. I generally enjoyed Force Awakens more, but that one Vader scene killed any action sequence from Force Awakens. Kylo Ren is a bad-, but so far he has no peer. I'm guessing his only match is Luke, so it'll be interesting to see what they do to jazz him up from what the 32-year old version of him did in Return of the Jedi.

 

What is the over/under on them having him kill Luke in a similar manner to Obi-Wan sacrificing himself?

[kimik]

Kylo Ren was a bad until he took his mask off.

 

Exactly. He lost his mojo when everyone saw that he is just another brooding youth with daddy issues. It does not help that he looks frail enough to get blown over by a light breeze.

Edited December 20, 2016 by kimik

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

Kylo Ren was a bad until he took his mask off.

 

Exactly. He lost his mojo when everyone saw that he is just another brooding youth with daddy issues. It does not help that he looks frail enough to get blown over by a light breeze.

 

Yoda is a 3 foot tall old troll. Lets not judge strength based on appearances

 

Gonna head out to see the movie this weekend. It was -10 degrees here in Minnesota this past weekend. Mother nature is stronger than the force

[Artboy99]

The Vader scene at the end . . .

 

Yea, BIG time. Movie was entertaining, but that scene was just awesome. Not as exciting as when Yoda opened up his can of whoop- in Episode II, but pretty close. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I just don't get it, and another issue I have with the movie.

 

Vader should move like he did fighting Obi Wan in Star Wars. When I see the end of R1, I wanna poke my eyes out. That's not in continuity with the story at all and I take it as a big FU to me personally as the studio is saying "look what we can do now with computers, to hell with everything else you ever known"

 

Jim

Honestly, I hated the Yoda vs. Dooku battle because of the over-indulgent use of CGI, but, as someone who saw the original Star Wars as a 3-year-old and has been immersed in Star Wars ever since, I don't understand this criticism toward the Vader scene at all -- why in the world would they handcuff him by sticking to that awkward, clunky, limited fighting style? Just to stay in continuity?! The Vader in R1 was so much more fluid and mowed through the troopers with superhuman power and dexterity (the way he should)! With as complex and sophisticated as fight choreography has gotten since 1977 (as we saw with Ray Park -- one of the genuine bright spots of the prequels), why would they try to portray one of the most powerful entities in the galaxy in such a stilted, unconvincing style?

 

This scene genuinely *floored* me in a way that most Star Wars movies have so disappointingly failed to do since ROTJ. I can't even comment on most of the rest of R1 because I can't get past how visceral the impression of actually seeing Vader unleashed was: Vader as an relentless, unfeeling, brutal instrument of terror. For me, this was the saga finally living up to its potential and, for once, this jaded fan actually left the theater feeling "satisfied". There have been so many blown opportunities with villains like Maul and Fett (or even the off-camera Anakin/Vader carnage in E2 and E3) where I just felt there was so much unrealized potential. I'm really not the biggest Vader fan nor am I even much of a CGI fan, but this was pure SW porn to me and I was absolutely giddy as the scene unfolded: His blitzing attack, the horror and panic from the rebel soldiers, the desperation to get rid of the plans, it was just masterful.

 

I'm truly sorry that you couldn't enjoy it, because, again, as a fan of the saga for nearly 40 years now, this was one of its highest points.

 

I agree, I loved the Vader scene. The rebels were terrified as they should be. Very well done.

 

I think Rogue One had a great story, my only request is to see more character development so that when they make the ultimate sacrifice it has more meaning.

 

An example is Saw Gerrera. Other than a small scene showing him opening the hatch to find Jin, and later some weird scene with some weird tentacles ( which I thought was awful ) his character was not shown or developed at all. His death is meaningless to me, like so many other characters in the movie. We are told he is important, I want to be shown. Lets see some film time of him training Jin, some relationship between them instead of countless blaster scenes and ships flying around.

[Artboy99]

Kylo Ren was a bad until he took his mask off.

 

Exactly. He lost his mojo when everyone saw that he is just another brooding youth with daddy issues. It does not help that he looks frail enough to get blown over by a light breeze.

 

I thought Kylo Ren was fantastic when I first saw him. The mask, the voice, his awesome abilities: I felt they had created an excellent Sith representation in a similar vein to Darth Vader. Then he took off his helmet and he completely lost all the mojo. It didn't help that he lost the lightsaber fight to some dude who has no training and to a girl who has little to no training. I don't care that he was shot; a Jedi that has the mastery of the force to stop multiple blaster shots has the ability to get passed such a minor injury and take care of business.

[Guardian Comics]

The Vader scene at the end . . .

 

Yea, BIG time. Movie was entertaining, but that scene was just awesome. Not as exciting as when Yoda opened up his can of whoop- in Episode II, but pretty close. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I just don't get it, and another issue I have with the movie.

 

Vader should move like he did fighting Obi Wan in Star Wars. When I see the end of R1, I wanna poke my eyes out. That's not in continuity with the story at all and I take it as a big FU to me personally as the studio is saying "look what we can do now with computers, to hell with everything else you ever known"

 

Jim

Honestly, I hated the Yoda vs. Dooku battle because of the over-indulgent use of CGI, but, as someone who saw the original Star Wars as a 3-year-old and has been immersed in Star Wars ever since, I don't understand this criticism toward the Vader scene at all -- why in the world would they handcuff him by sticking to that awkward, clunky, limited fighting style? Just to stay in continuity?! The Vader in R1 was so much more fluid and mowed through the troopers with superhuman power and dexterity (the way he should)! With as complex and sophisticated as fight choreography has gotten since 1977 (as we saw with Ray Park -- one of the genuine bright spots of the prequels), why would they try to portray one of the most powerful entities in the galaxy in such a stilted, unconvincing style?

 

This scene genuinely *floored* me in a way that most Star Wars movies have so disappointingly failed to do since ROTJ. I can't even comment on most of the rest of R1 because I can't get past how visceral the impression of actually seeing Vader unleashed was: Vader as an relentless, unfeeling, brutal instrument of terror. For me, this was the saga finally living up to its potential and, for once, this jaded fan actually left the theater feeling "satisfied". There have been so many blown opportunities with villains like Maul and Fett (or even the off-camera Anakin/Vader carnage in E2 and E3) where I just felt there was so much unrealized potential. I'm really not the biggest Vader fan nor am I even much of a CGI fan, but this was pure SW porn to me and I was absolutely giddy as the scene unfolded: His blitzing attack, the horror and panic from the rebel soldiers, the desperation to get rid of the plans, it was just masterful.

 

I'm truly sorry that you couldn't enjoy it, because, again, as a fan of the saga for nearly 40 years now, this was one of its highest points.

 

I respect your opinion and point of view. I just see it as rewriting history. If Vader was capable of all that carnage, then why bother sending in the Stormtroopers at all on the Blockade Runner in A New Hope....Vader could have intercepted the plans much quicker himself and the entire movie could have been over in five minutes.

 

I'm not interested in seeing what should have been, I want to see what was.

 

Jim

 

This explains why you like Force Awakens, basically you just want to see the same thing over again.

 

The fight in ANH always bugged me as it was slow and boring, just compare it to ESB which was more physical, faster and still looks awesome to this day.

 

Absolutely hated it the first time I saw it. It took John Seeberger (SpideyOntTilt here on the boards) calling me up from California and saying I should really give it another chance. And when I did, I "got it", SW is supposed to be SW, not something completely radically different or then it might be Star Trek or Aliens. That's all.

 

Jim

[Logan510]

The Vader scene at the end . . .

 

Yea, BIG time. Movie was entertaining, but that scene was just awesome. Not as exciting as when Yoda opened up his can of whoop- in Episode II, but pretty close. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I just don't get it, and another issue I have with the movie.

 

Vader should move like he did fighting Obi Wan in Star Wars. When I see the end of R1, I wanna poke my eyes out. That's not in continuity with the story at all and I take it as a big FU to me personally as the studio is saying "look what we can do now with computers, to hell with everything else you ever known"

 

Jim

Honestly, I hated the Yoda vs. Dooku battle because of the over-indulgent use of CGI, but, as someone who saw the original Star Wars as a 3-year-old and has been immersed in Star Wars ever since, I don't understand this criticism toward the Vader scene at all -- why in the world would they handcuff him by sticking to that awkward, clunky, limited fighting style? Just to stay in continuity?! The Vader in R1 was so much more fluid and mowed through the troopers with superhuman power and dexterity (the way he should)! With as complex and sophisticated as fight choreography has gotten since 1977 (as we saw with Ray Park -- one of the genuine bright spots of the prequels), why would they try to portray one of the most powerful entities in the galaxy in such a stilted, unconvincing style?

 

This scene genuinely *floored* me in a way that most Star Wars movies have so disappointingly failed to do since ROTJ. I can't even comment on most of the rest of R1 because I can't get past how visceral the impression of actually seeing Vader unleashed was: Vader as an relentless, unfeeling, brutal instrument of terror. For me, this was the saga finally living up to its potential and, for once, this jaded fan actually left the theater feeling "satisfied". There have been so many blown opportunities with villains like Maul and Fett (or even the off-camera Anakin/Vader carnage in E2 and E3) where I just felt there was so much unrealized potential. I'm really not the biggest Vader fan nor am I even much of a CGI fan, but this was pure SW porn to me and I was absolutely giddy as the scene unfolded: His blitzing attack, the horror and panic from the rebel soldiers, the desperation to get rid of the plans, it was just masterful.

 

I'm truly sorry that you couldn't enjoy it, because, again, as a fan of the saga for nearly 40 years now, this was one of its highest points.

 

I respect your opinion and point of view. I just see it as rewriting history. If Vader was capable of all that carnage, then why bother sending in the Stormtroopers at all on the Blockade Runner in A New Hope....Vader could have intercepted the plans much quicker himself and the entire movie could have been over in five minutes.

 

I'm not interested in seeing what should have been, I want to see what was.

 

Jim

 

This explains why you like Force Awakens, basically you just want to see the same thing over again.

 

The fight in ANH always bugged me as it was slow and boring, just compare it to ESB which was more physical, faster and still looks awesome to this day.

 

Absolutely hated it the first time I saw it. It took John Seeberger (SpideyOntTilt here on the boards) calling me up from California and saying I should really give it another chance. And when I did, I "got it", SW is supposed to be SW, not something completely radically different or then it might be Star Trek or Aliens. That's all.

 

Jim

 

Jim, if you look at the original Star Wars as a singular film it will make you feel better. It really does stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the movies...and not just because of effects or fight choreography.

[fantastic_four]

It does not help that he looks frail enough to get blown over by a light breeze.

 

That black outfit made him look slim, but he's 6' 2", 190 pounds, and relatively muscular out of it which I only know that because they showed him shirtless on HBO's "Girls" a lot. He's bigger than most Jedi or Sith from the films.

 

[fantastic_four]

An example is Saw Gerrera. Other than a small scene showing him opening the hatch to find Jin, and later some weird scene with some weird tentacles ( which I thought was awful ) his character was not shown or developed at all. His death is meaningless to me, like so many other characters in the movie. We are told he is important, I want to be shown. Lets see some film time of him training Jin, some relationship between them instead of countless blaster scenes and ships flying around.

 

Yea, he wasn't developed well. He was created to be the Alliance version of Darth Vader, ferocious in battle and mostly robotic now, but instead of turning to the dark side he stayed light. The occasional use of the oxygen mask was another touch to allude to Vader. But they didn't convey any of that well enough to pick it up easily or for that to make him compelling.

 

He implied that the tentacle creature would cause that guy to lose his mind, but he wasn't particularly crazy, was he? He acted a little loopy at first but it seemed to fade fast.

[fantastic_four]

I don't care that he was shot; a Jedi that has the mastery of the force to stop multiple blaster shots has the ability to get passed such a minor injury and take care of business.

 

What does the Force do to help deal with injuries?

[Crimebuster]

 

An example is Saw Gerrera. Other than a small scene showing him opening the hatch to find Jin, and later some weird scene with some weird tentacles ( which I thought was awful ) his character was not shown or developed at all. His death is meaningless to me, like so many other characters in the movie. We are told he is important, I want to be shown. Lets see some film time of him training Jin, some relationship between them instead of countless blaster scenes and ships flying around.

 

 

Saw Gerrera is one of the main characters in the Clone Wars and Rebels cartoons, so no doubt his death meant a lot more to fans of those shows. I'm with you, though. As fan service, it was probably great. But as a character in this movie, he was a cipher. I think they had a bit of Marvel-itis going on, relying on the viewer's knowledge of the extended universe to paper over holes in their storytelling.

 

[fantastic_four]

Seems like the rise of the Rebellion is fertile ground for a story. Just from watching Episodes III and IV, all we know is that the Empire started and then suddenly there was a strong rebellion fighting them twenty years later. I presume they're all ex-members of the Republic, but I don't really know. Rogue One didn't cover their rise at all.

 

And wow do I suddenly want that story told to see Vader in his prime as a Sith.

[comicwiz]

The Vader scene at the end . . .

 

Yea, BIG time. Movie was entertaining, but that scene was just awesome. Not as exciting as when Yoda opened up his can of whoop- in Episode II, but pretty close. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I just don't get it, and another issue I have with the movie.

 

Vader should move like he did fighting Obi Wan in Star Wars. When I see the end of R1, I wanna poke my eyes out. That's not in continuity with the story at all and I take it as a big FU to me personally as the studio is saying "look what we can do now with computers, to hell with everything else you ever known"

 

Jim

Honestly, I hated the Yoda vs. Dooku battle because of the over-indulgent use of CGI, but, as someone who saw the original Star Wars as a 3-year-old and has been immersed in Star Wars ever since, I don't understand this criticism toward the Vader scene at all -- why in the world would they handcuff him by sticking to that awkward, clunky, limited fighting style? Just to stay in continuity?! The Vader in R1 was so much more fluid and mowed through the troopers with superhuman power and dexterity (the way he should)! With as complex and sophisticated as fight choreography has gotten since 1977 (as we saw with Ray Park -- one of the genuine bright spots of the prequels), why would they try to portray one of the most powerful entities in the galaxy in such a stilted, unconvincing style?

 

This scene genuinely *floored* me in a way that most Star Wars movies have so disappointingly failed to do since ROTJ. I can't even comment on most of the rest of R1 because I can't get past how visceral the impression of actually seeing Vader unleashed was: Vader as an relentless, unfeeling, brutal instrument of terror. For me, this was the saga finally living up to its potential and, for once, this jaded fan actually left the theater feeling "satisfied". There have been so many blown opportunities with villains like Maul and Fett (or even the off-camera Anakin/Vader carnage in E2 and E3) where I just felt there was so much unrealized potential. I'm really not the biggest Vader fan nor am I even much of a CGI fan, but this was pure SW porn to me and I was absolutely giddy as the scene unfolded: His blitzing attack, the horror and panic from the rebel soldiers, the desperation to get rid of the plans, it was just masterful.

 

I'm truly sorry that you couldn't enjoy it, because, again, as a fan of the saga for nearly 40 years now, this was one of its highest points.

 

I respect your opinion and point of view. I just see it as rewriting history. If Vader was capable of all that carnage, then why bother sending in the Stormtroopers at all on the Blockade Runner in A New Hope....Vader could have intercepted the plans much quicker himself and the entire movie could have been over in five minutes.

 

I'm not interested in seeing what should have been, I want to see what was.

 

Jim

 

I'm in agreement with your logic here. I saw it as fan service toward Marvel's version of Vader interpreted for cinematic audiences.

[kimik]

It does not help that he looks frail enough to get blown over by a light breeze.

 

That black outfit made him look slim, but he's 6' 2", 190 pounds, and relatively muscular out of it which I only know that because they showed him shirtless on HBO's "Girls" a lot. He's bigger than most Jedi or Sith from the films.

 

The site I saw online had him at 6'2" and 178 lbs. When I was 15 and playing rep hockey I had a teammate that height and light weight. He broke his collarbone twice that season and was done with the sport.

[Artboy99]

 

An example is Saw Gerrera. Other than a small scene showing him opening the hatch to find Jin, and later some weird scene with some weird tentacles ( which I thought was awful ) his character was not shown or developed at all. His death is meaningless to me, like so many other characters in the movie. We are told he is important, I want to be shown. Lets see some film time of him training Jin, some relationship between them instead of countless blaster scenes and ships flying around.

 

 

Saw Gerrera is one of the main characters in the Clone Wars and Rebels cartoons, so no doubt his death meant a lot more to fans of those shows. I'm with you, though. As fan service, it was probably great. But as a character in this movie, he was a cipher. I think they had a bit of Marvel-itis going on, relying on the viewer's knowledge of the extended universe to paper over holes in their storytelling.

 

 

Thanks for your comment. I have never seen either of the cartoons, so you are likely correct that it was expected I know more about the character than what was shown.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

To be fair, Saw had nearly more lines in the trailers than he did in the final movie. Chalk it up to the reworking of the movie to make it less dire/grim as Saw is a pretty grim personality.

 

Good news is, Forrest Whitaker voiced him in the new Rebels episodes, so be sure to catch those if you want to get more background on the character.

[Antpark]

 

An example is Saw Gerrera. Other than a small scene showing him opening the hatch to find Jin, and later some weird scene with some weird tentacles ( which I thought was awful ) his character was not shown or developed at all. His death is meaningless to me, like so many other characters in the movie. We are told he is important, I want to be shown. Lets see some film time of him training Jin, some relationship between them instead of countless blaster scenes and ships flying around.

 

 

Saw Gerrera is one of the main characters in the Clone Wars and Rebels cartoons, so no doubt his death meant a lot more to fans of those shows. I'm with you, though. As fan service, it was probably great. But as a character in this movie, he was a cipher. I think they had a bit of Marvel-itis going on, relying on the viewer's knowledge of the extended universe to paper over holes in their storytelling.

 

 

Thanks for your comment. I have never seen either of the cartoons, so you are likely correct that it was expected I know more about the character than what was shown.

+1

That makes a bit more sense now.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

The Vader scene at the end . . .

 

Yea, BIG time. Movie was entertaining, but that scene was just awesome. Not as exciting as when Yoda opened up his can of whoop- in Episode II, but pretty close. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I just don't get it, and another issue I have with the movie.

 

Vader should move like he did fighting Obi Wan in Star Wars. When I see the end of R1, I wanna poke my eyes out. That's not in continuity with the story at all and I take it as a big FU to me personally as the studio is saying "look what we can do now with computers, to hell with everything else you ever known"

 

Jim

Honestly, I hated the Yoda vs. Dooku battle because of the over-indulgent use of CGI, but, as someone who saw the original Star Wars as a 3-year-old and has been immersed in Star Wars ever since, I don't understand this criticism toward the Vader scene at all -- why in the world would they handcuff him by sticking to that awkward, clunky, limited fighting style? Just to stay in continuity?! The Vader in R1 was so much more fluid and mowed through the troopers with superhuman power and dexterity (the way he should)! With as complex and sophisticated as fight choreography has gotten since 1977 (as we saw with Ray Park -- one of the genuine bright spots of the prequels), why would they try to portray one of the most powerful entities in the galaxy in such a stilted, unconvincing style?

 

This scene genuinely *floored* me in a way that most Star Wars movies have so disappointingly failed to do since ROTJ. I can't even comment on most of the rest of R1 because I can't get past how visceral the impression of actually seeing Vader unleashed was: Vader as an relentless, unfeeling, brutal instrument of terror. For me, this was the saga finally living up to its potential and, for once, this jaded fan actually left the theater feeling "satisfied". There have been so many blown opportunities with villains like Maul and Fett (or even the off-camera Anakin/Vader carnage in E2 and E3) where I just felt there was so much unrealized potential. I'm really not the biggest Vader fan nor am I even much of a CGI fan, but this was pure SW porn to me and I was absolutely giddy as the scene unfolded: His blitzing attack, the horror and panic from the rebel soldiers, the desperation to get rid of the plans, it was just masterful.

 

I'm truly sorry that you couldn't enjoy it, because, again, as a fan of the saga for nearly 40 years now, this was one of its highest points.

 

I respect your opinion and point of view. I just see it as rewriting history. If Vader was capable of all that carnage, then why bother sending in the Stormtroopers at all on the Blockade Runner in A New Hope....Vader could have intercepted the plans much quicker himself and the entire movie could have been over in five minutes.

 

I'm not interested in seeing what should have been, I want to see what was.

 

Jim

 

Yeah, but its not "rewriting history" Jim, it's improving on what was a huge limitation of the original film. Both Alec Guinness (mid 60s) and Ian McDiarmid (mid 50s) were asked to perform the role of master Jedi/Sith lightsabre wielders on film, neither with much training and both at an age were mobility and flexibility were leaving them. In both cases, Kenobi's fight against Vader and Palpatine's duel against four Master Jedi were weak points in the saga, as neither was all that convincing. Palpatine's victory over his four opponents was even less believable, as the film version expected us to suspend our disbelief that this aged man was really the most fearsome force wielder in the universe. I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas decided this fight needed to be "fixed" at one point if the technology allows for it to be, heck he had to add in a few CGI flips and tumbles to try and make the final product more palatable, not to mention all the heavy lifting was done by a stunt double.

 

Compare his dispatching of the four Master Jedi with his animated series counterpart fighting Maul and his brother. Which clip better depicts Palpatine as the genuinely dangerous Sith he was described to be in canon? And which one looks ridiculous with his telegraphed slow-as-molasses lunges and melodramatic snarls?

 

 

 

Technology allows for a correction. There is nothing wrong with that. Except when Han doesn't shoot first, of course.

 

 

 

[fett]

The Vader scene at the end . . .

 

Yea, BIG time. Movie was entertaining, but that scene was just awesome. Not as exciting as when Yoda opened up his can of whoop- in Episode II, but pretty close. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I just don't get it, and another issue I have with the movie.

 

Vader should move like he did fighting Obi Wan in Star Wars. When I see the end of R1, I wanna poke my eyes out. That's not in continuity with the story at all and I take it as a big FU to me personally as the studio is saying "look what we can do now with computers, to hell with everything else you ever known"

 

Jim

Honestly, I hated the Yoda vs. Dooku battle because of the over-indulgent use of CGI, but, as someone who saw the original Star Wars as a 3-year-old and has been immersed in Star Wars ever since, I don't understand this criticism toward the Vader scene at all -- why in the world would they handcuff him by sticking to that awkward, clunky, limited fighting style? Just to stay in continuity?! The Vader in R1 was so much more fluid and mowed through the troopers with superhuman power and dexterity (the way he should)! With as complex and sophisticated as fight choreography has gotten since 1977 (as we saw with Ray Park -- one of the genuine bright spots of the prequels), why would they try to portray one of the most powerful entities in the galaxy in such a stilted, unconvincing style?

 

This scene genuinely *floored* me in a way that most Star Wars movies have so disappointingly failed to do since ROTJ. I can't even comment on most of the rest of R1 because I can't get past how visceral the impression of actually seeing Vader unleashed was: Vader as an relentless, unfeeling, brutal instrument of terror. For me, this was the saga finally living up to its potential and, for once, this jaded fan actually left the theater feeling "satisfied". There have been so many blown opportunities with villains like Maul and Fett (or even the off-camera Anakin/Vader carnage in E2 and E3) where I just felt there was so much unrealized potential. I'm really not the biggest Vader fan nor am I even much of a CGI fan, but this was pure SW porn to me and I was absolutely giddy as the scene unfolded: His blitzing attack, the horror and panic from the rebel soldiers, the desperation to get rid of the plans, it was just masterful.

 

I'm truly sorry that you couldn't enjoy it, because, again, as a fan of the saga for nearly 40 years now, this was one of its highest points.

 

I respect your opinion and point of view. I just see it as rewriting history. If Vader was capable of all that carnage, then why bother sending in the Stormtroopers at all on the Blockade Runner in A New Hope....Vader could have intercepted the plans much quicker himself and the entire movie could have been over in five minutes.

 

I'm not interested in seeing what should have been, I want to see what was.

 

Jim

 

He had just mowed through a dozen rebel troopers prior to boarding the vette in Star Wars. Maybe he was a little winded.