Accuracy of Gerber and Overstreet Scarcity Designations 8 8

[Gatsby77]

Interesting note re. Bob's story of the "thousand comics" from 1950.

 

At least part of that Ghost Rider # 1 warehouse find made its way to Showcase New England a few years ago. My 8.0 copy of Ghost Rider 1 was one of approximately 40 raw copies, 6.0-9.2, that they auctioned off on Ebay all at once (at 2 minute intervals) about four years ago. Likewise they had dozens of copies each of a few Tim Holt and Fight Comics.

 

I paid $200 shipped for my copy of Ghost Rider 1. Looks 9.2/9.4 from the front but back cover has some smudging that brings it down, so I'd advise anyone buying Ghost Rider 1 online to get a back-cover scan first.

[Bo_Hogg]

From my experience and all I do is collect rare comics, I think the Gerber books are the least accurate. I think the Overstreet is the most accurate and I don't even deal with the CGC census because this is based on who submits their books to be graded. What about all the copies out there that are not graded like all my books. This can't be accurate. If CGC says there is only one graded copy for a book then everybody thinks it is rare but surely there are many people who have copies that don't care about CGC.

[ashrael]

Interesting note re. Bob's story of the "thousand comics" from 1950.

 

At least part of that Ghost Rider # 1 warehouse find made its way to Showcase New England a few years ago. My 8.0 copy of Ghost Rider 1 was one of approximately 40 raw copies, 6.0-9.2, that they auctioned off on Ebay all at once (at 2 minute intervals) about four years ago. Likewise they had dozens of copies each of a few Tim Holt and Fight Comics.

 

I paid $200 shipped for my copy of Ghost Rider 1. Looks 9.2/9.4 from the front but back cover has some smudging that brings it down, so I'd advise anyone buying Ghost Rider 1 online to get a back-cover scan first.

 

I remember bidding on many of those, but losing on all (under bidder a few times). I don't think that way of doing it was very smart financially for Showcase, but at least we had a good chance of getting a copy.

 

From my experience and all I do is collect rare comics, I think the Gerber books are the least accurate. I think the Overstreet is the most accurate and I don't even deal with the CGC census because this is based on who submits their books to be graded. What about all the copies out there that are not graded like all my books. This can't be accurate. If CGC says there is only one graded copy for a book then everybody thinks it is rare but surely there are many people who have copies that don't care about CGC.

 

Of course OS should be more accurate since it can be updated yearly.

[conditionfreak]

This is a list of my slabbed higher Gerber designated comics. This was easy as I have all of my slabbed books on file on my computer. It would take quite a bit of work to do my raw books like this. Perhaps I will get to it someday.

 

After the --------- below, I will post my thoughts on the actual scarcity index they should be, IMO. Along with some interesting notes on some issues.

 

Animated Comics #nn CGC 4.0 VG Cr/off wh E.C. 1947 Gerber 8---------probably a 7. Maybe an 8

 

Best Comics #1 PGX 2.0 Good Cr/Off wh Better 11/39 Gerber 7-----------spot on I think

 

Crown Comics #14 CGC 7.0 F/VF off wh McCombs 8/48 Gerber 7-------probably an 8

 

Dickie Dare #1 CGC 4.5 VG+ Cr/Off wh Eastern 1941 Gerber 8-----------probably a 7

 

Gasoline Alley #1 CGC 4.5 VG+ Cr/Off wh Star Pub 9-10/50 Gerber 7-------spot on I think

 

Gasoline Alley #2 CGC 4.5 VG+ cr/off wh Star Pub 12/50 Gerber 8-------correct I think

 

John Hix Scrap Book #2 CGC 4.5 white pages, Eastern Color, no date. Maybe 1939 or 40. Gerber 8---possibly a 9 I think

 

Marco Polo #1 CGC 5.0 VG/F cr/off wh Charlton 1962 Gerber 7---------may be the newest book with a high Gerber designation.

A 7 is perhaps correct, although I have only seen one other over the years, up for sale.

 

Racket Squad in Action #2 CGC 5.5 Fine- Cr/off wh Charlkton 7-8/52 Gerber 7----probably correct

 

Rocket Kelly #nn CGC 7.5 VF- White Fox Features 1944 Gerber 7-----spot on I think

 

Romeo Tubbs #27 CGC 5.5 Fine- Off wh Superior 1950 Canadian Edition (exists?)

Formerly know as My Secret Life. Gerber states only went to issue 26. Overstreet states there may be a 27 and 28.

So I guess in this circumstance, Gerber would have given it a 10? Since he does not have it listed, he gave it nothing. Notice mine is a Canadian edition.

 

Tom-Tom The Jungle Boy #1 CGC 6.0 Fine Off wh Mag. Enterprises 1947 Gerber 7-------Probably correct, although it perhaps an 8

 

True Comics #80 PGX 7.5 VF- White Parents Mag. 12/49 no subscr label Gerber 7--------spot on I think

True Comics #81 PGX 8.0 VF Off wh Parents Mag. 2/50 no subscr label Gerber 7----------spot on I think

True Comics #82 PGX 1.8 Good- Tan Parents Mag. 4/50 Gerber 7----------------------------spot on I think

True Comics #83 PGX 1.5 F/Good Tan Parents Mag. 6/50 Gerber 7--------------------------spot on I think

True Comics #84 PGX 2.5 Good+ White Parents Mag. 8/50 Gerber 8-------------------------spot on I think, but perhaps a 7

Gerber states the above True Comics were "Limited Subscriber Distribution". Overstreet says they are "Rare" and "All possibly

delivered to subscribers through mail order only". Overstreet says they all have paper covers. Hence the difficulty in finding high grade

copies. In my own experience, there are some without subscription labels, but they are extremely rare without them. Notice how high

my two copies without subscription labels graded and how low the ones that went through the mail graded. Thus, I believe Gerber and

Overstreet are wrong in believing that they were only issued via mail order. Anecdotal evidence I know. But compelling I think.

 

Twinkle Comics #1 CGC 4.5 VG+ Cr/of wh Spotlight 5/45 Gerber 7-------------------spot on I think

 

Warrior Comics #1 CGC 4.5 VG+ Lt tan/off wh HC Blackerby 1945 Gerber 8------------no way an 8. Warehouse find?

Comes up for sale often and several years ago, one person on Ebay had a stack of them for auction, individually.

I offered to purchase his best one and he refused. Instead wanted to sell me a VF-.I did not buy. I believe he had 10 or 15 of them.-------Probably a 6

 

Sky Blazers #1 CGC 7.0 F/VF Cr/Off wh Hawley 9/40 Gerber 5------------should be a Gerber 7 I think

 

Sky Sheriff #1 CGC 6.0 Fine Lt Tan/off wh D.S. Pub Summer 1948 Crowley copy Gerber 5--------------should be a Gerber 7 I think

 

Negro Heroes #1 CGC 2.0 crm/off wht Spring 1947 Gerber 6--------------should be a Gerber 7 I think

 

Is This Tomorrow #nn CGC 7.0 F/VF off wh/wh Catechetical Guild 1947

(no price w/blank circle variant) Gerber 7 ---------------There are variances of this book (price/no price/etc), and I think for this variance Gerber is spot on.

Edited December 19, 2010 by conditionfreak

[rodan57]

 

That's also why more key books show up in the CGC census. Slabbing is very often a prelude to sale. The books that aren't for sale are far less likely to be slabbed by their proud owners.

 

 

Nicely put.

[solarcadet]

where can i find a list of books and their gerber rating??

[comicjack]

Photo Journals have ratings along side of the pictures very useful

[Flex Mentallo]

Photo Journals have ratings along side of the pictures very useful

 

But as you know Jack, since Gerber's day we have come to a better understanding of what is scarce and what is not!

[pmpknface]

Gasoline Alley #1 CGC 4.5 VG+ Cr/Off wh Star Pub 9-10/50 Gerber 7-------spot on I think

 

Gasoline Alley #2 CGC 4.5 VG+ cr/off wh Star Pub 12/50 Gerber 8-------correct I think

 

I didn't know these were that rare. I at least have a #2! I was just looking these up and found this too:

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=808&lotIdNo=106007

 

I don't think this comic was ever made either. I know there's a few of these out there that were never made.

[solarcadet]

Worlds Finest #71 is listed as Level 7 (21 – 50 Copies)

There is 48 copies CGC'ed and one raw on Ebay right now so that makes 49 total that we know. I guess this book is more a Level 6 (50 – 200 Copies)

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=World%27s+Finest+Comics&issue=71&publisher=D%2EC%2E+Comics&year=1954&issuedate=7-8%2F54

[Sqeggs]

Michelle Nolan (I think it was) had some interesting articles looking at whether Gerber 7s and up were accurately designated. To summarize her conclusions (which I may be doing inaccurately!), by and large Gerber overestimated the scarcity of most books, although he wasn't too far off given when he was making his estimates.

 

With respect to Overstreet, sometimes he really does mean "scarce" or "rare" according to his back of the book definitions. More often, though, he uses the terms as synonyms for "kinda hard to find" and "really hard to find." That's my take, at any rate.

[solarcadet]

thanks Sqeggs!

 

the data is skewed from raw books in collections and not on the market so its never easy to tell

 

 

[pmpknface]

There's also this index which may be useful...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5985547&fpart=1

[conditionfreak]

Gasoline Alley #1 CGC 4.5 VG+ Cr/Off wh Star Pub 9-10/50 Gerber 7-------spot on I think

 

Gasoline Alley #2 CGC 4.5 VG+ cr/off wh Star Pub 12/50 Gerber 8-------correct I think

 

I didn't know these were that rare. I at least have a #2! I was just looking these up and found this too:

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=808&lotIdNo=106007

 

I don't think this comic was ever made either. I know there's a few of these out there that were never made.

 

Yea, the #3 was a cover only thing. Just like Motion Picture Funnies Weekly ( MPFW) comics, #'s 2, 3 and 4, are only known as "covers only". Interiors were never published.

 

MPFW #1, may be the first appearance ever of the Sub-Mariner. It was a full fledged complete comic book, given away at theaters.

[86Celtics]

The Gerber scarcity index is highly inaccurate as it was published in 1989. The internet, eBay, CGC census, etc have long since proven the inaccuracy of the guide. That guide even recommends cleaning as it's not restoration. Some sellers/dealers use the scarcity rating in their descriptions for their "rare" books. I just can't put any faith in those 1989 estimates when making a purchase or considering one in 2013 nor am I going to clean my books since it's not really restoration.

Edited August 22, 2013 by 86Celtics

[comicjack]

Photo Journals have ratings along side of the pictures very useful

 

But as you know Jack, since Gerber's day we have come to a better understanding of what is scarce and what is not!

 

Like Suspense Comics 3 no way a Gerber 8 or 9 nice book to own

but not that rare ,long time dealers know what is rare and what is not seek

out their knowledge many are more than helpful!

[Flex Mentallo]

Photo Journals have ratings along side of the pictures very useful

 

But as you know Jack, since Gerber's day we have come to a better understanding of what is scarce and what is not!

 

Like Suspense Comics 3 no way a Gerber 8 or 9 nice book to own

but not that rare ,long time dealers know what is rare and what is not seek

out their knowledge many are more than helpful!

 

I suppose what we also see is artificial scarcity as more and more of the nicer copies get locked up in lifetime collections like yours (and mine)....

[walclark]

Michelle Nolan (I think it was) had some interesting articles looking at whether Gerber 7s and up were accurately designated. To summarize her conclusions (which I may be doing inaccurately!), by and large Gerber overestimated the scarcity of most books, although he wasn't too far off given when he was making his estimates.

 

With respect to Overstreet, sometimes he really does mean "scarce" or "rare" according to his back of the book definitions. More often, though, he uses the terms as synonyms for "kinda hard to find" and "really hard to find." That's my take, at any rate.

 

I suppose what we also see is artificial scarcity as more and more of the nicer copies get locked up in lifetime collections like yours (and mine)....

 

Browsing some past issues of CBM and came across this article by Nolan:

 

 

[Vision75]

It's hard to get a good bead on exact numbers. As was mentioned earlier on the Boards, Gerber did a good job getting the relative scarcity right. That is, typically 9's are scarcer than 8's, 8's scarcer than 7's, and so forth. Of course there are mistakes as noted by walclark above. As pointed out by a few boardies, however, the scarcity values do not reflect the underlying numbers that Gerber suggested. He almost always underestimated the amount of existing books.

 

What I find funny is how we GA folks talk about books not being that rare when there might be 45 copies as opposed to 15 suggested by Gerber. When, on the other hand, SA folks make statements about how rare some issues are with fewer than 2000 copies like Tales to Astonish 27 or Journey into Mystery 83. Our rare is still a magnitude or two rarer than the SA metric :-)

 

 

[Chicago Boy]

Let’s bump this topic into 2019...

Edited May 29, 2019 by Chicago Boy