Fantastic Four will historically be known as what killed the comic movie craze!

[thehumantorch]

Is this a sign Fox is getting more cautious with comic adaptations?

 

Mark Millar’s Nemesis Moves To Warner Bros

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/08/10/mark-millars-nemesis-moves-to-warner-bros/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

No, It means Fox doesn't have a clue on how to make a comic movie, so they better back off. This movie from the trailer alone looked like garbage. A black human torch named Johnny Storm who happens to have a sister named Sue Storm who also happens to be white? Sounds like a Blockbuster record breaker to me...They only made this to keep the FF rights from Marvel. Fox hires bad writers, bad directors, bad actors and micro manage every movie. No the superhero bubble hasn't popped but Fox's superhero movie making days sure are.

 

Fox has made some decent movies. While I don't think they can hold a candle to Disney they can make entertaining super hero movies. DeadPool looks amazing and frankly I hate the character.

 

I think the question is, why can't they make a decent FF movie? Why don't they have faith in the source material and keep altering it? Galactus as a cloud, Human Torch black? Are the characters too old fashioned or lame? Is there something wrong with the dynamics of the team?

 

I recently saw Antman and enjoyed it immensely. Surely his powers are no more interesting than any of the FF characters. Why does Antman seem interesting and funny and fresh and FF seems dead on arrival?

[VintageComics]

I think the question is, why can't they make a decent FF movie? Why don't they have faith in the source material and keep altering it? Galactus as a cloud, Human Torch black? Are the characters too old fashioned or lame? Is there something wrong with the dynamics of the team?

 

I recently saw Antman and enjoyed it immensely. Surely his powers are no more interesting than any of the FF characters. Why does Antman seem interesting and funny and fresh and FF seems dead on arrival?

It's likely the upper management meddling.

 

Even the most creative and visionary artist can't carve something beautiful out of a rough stone if someone keeps moving the stone. You end up with a fugly mess.

 

And that's what seems to keep happening with Sony and Fox - they are not dedicated or vested to the source material the way Marvel would be and so they are fine with constantly changing it up. Only it creates inconsistency.

 

Imagine watching an FF movie where the 1st movie is a 1961 time piece the way Cap was a 1940 time piece. You have that dry, communist threat feel to the movie. It's filmed in an Alfred Hitchcock slightly horror angle feel. Even black and white until they gain their powers. It would be awesome.

 

There are just so many creative and wonderful ways to make a movie while remaining more or less faithful to the source material and meanwhile 3 kicks at the can and Fox still can't get it right.

 

Unbelievable.

[Chris_Skeleton]

Why do you people keep talking about the whole black Johnny and white Sue dynamic? It's been spelled out over and over, adoption. Is that something you are unfamiliar with?

 

Does it put you in an uproar when you go out and see black families with adopted white children or vice versa? They changed the race and back story, we get it. If the movie is garbage, it's garbage. And it's not from changing the race and backstory of the Storms.

 

Some of you people are beginning to come off as sounding borderline racist.

[MetalPSI]

Why do you people keep talking about the whole black Johnny and white Sue dynamic? It's been spelled out over and over, adoption. Is that something you are unfamiliar with?

 

Does it put you in an uproar when you go out and see black families with adopted white children or vice versa? They changed the race and back story, we get it. If the movie is garbage, it's garbage. And it's not from changing the race and backstory of the Storms.

 

Some of you people are beginning to come off as sounding borderline racist.

 

[kimik]

Is this a sign Fox is getting more cautious with comic adaptations?

 

Mark Millar’s Nemesis Moves To Warner Bros

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/08/10/mark-millars-nemesis-moves-to-warner-bros/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

No, It means Fox doesn't have a clue on how to make a comic Fantastic Four movie, so they better back off. This movie from the trailer alone looked like garbage. A black human torch named Johnny Storm who happens to have a sister named Sue Storm who also happens to be white? Sounds like a Blockbuster record breaker to me...They only made this to keep the FF rights from Marvel. Fox hires bad writers, bad directors, bad actors and micro manage every movie. No the superhero bubble hasn't popped but Fox's superhero movie making days sure are.

 

This! (thumbs u

 

Marvel Studios/Disney needs to get FF into their stable of properties. My

 

All Fox has to do is spend even less on the film next time, release it, and continue to retain the rights. Due to the current bad relationship between Marvel Studios and Fox over character rights I don't see Fox returning the rights to Disney.

 

On the flip side, if they put some effort into it they could turn the property into an Ant-Man type play. Nothing huge, but a decent win for a 3rd tier franchise..........

 

 

This would be a zero sum gain for Fox and might introduce risk for other comic character projects with greater potential if it looks like they're just holding onto the property to spite Marvel Studios/Disney.

 

The best option for an amicable solution would be for Fox to negotiate selling the rights back to Marvel Studios/Disney early rather than running the clock on another lackluster production. With some kind of under the table trade concessions on the back end everyone would come away happy without risk of BO loses.

 

Hey, it's Hollywood! Anything's possible! (thumbs u

 

 

The biggest win for Fox is to build the FF into a strong franchise. There are plenty of spin-off possibilities if they can do it right. Their mistake this time was to give the production to a strung out director. They have renewed the rights now so they should be good to go to actually put a longer term plan in place for the franchise that includes multiple movies with the core team and spin-off characters (e.g. Silver Surfer).

 

Even then, it still might stink because it is FF.

[kimik]

Fox has made some decent movies. While I don't think they can hold a candle to Disney they can make entertaining super hero movies. DeadPool looks amazing and frankly I hate the character.

 

I think the question is, why can't they make a decent FF movie? Why don't they have faith in the source material and keep altering it? Galactus as a cloud, Human Torch black? Are the characters too old fashioned or lame? Is there something wrong with the dynamics of the team?

 

I recently saw Antman and enjoyed it immensely. Surely his powers are no more interesting than any of the FF characters. Why does Antman seem interesting and funny and fresh and FF seems dead on arrival?

 

You know the reason. It is because this is the FF we are dealing with, not an actually somewhat popular franchise.

[cloud cloddie]

Why do you people keep talking about the whole black Johnny and white Sue dynamic? It's been spelled out over and over, adoption. Is that something you are unfamiliar with?

 

Does it put you in an uproar when you go out and see black families with adopted white children or vice versa? They changed the race and back story, we get it. If the movie is garbage, it's garbage. And it's not from changing the race and backstory of the Storms.

 

Some of you people are beginning to come off as sounding borderline racist.

 

Lord. I'm so tired of the racist card being thrown out when somebody mentions black torch. Most of the people complaining seem to take issue with it being an unnecessary change to the backstory. I've seen plenty of people also complain about Sue being Russian or whatever. Again, because it serves no added purpose to the story.

 

Stop throwing race cards around.

[TheLiamSturgess]

I wouldn't like it if Luke Cage were depicted in a film adaptation as a white man. Not because I'm racist toward caucasian people, or interested in limiting his potential as a character open for interpretation, but because his character calls for him being African American.

 

I wouldn't like it if Peter Parker were depicted as African American in a film for the same reason. Peter Parker, as a character, happens to be from caucasian descent.

 

I would HATE IT if Miles Morales was depicted as white, for hopefully really obvious reasons.

 

I don't like that Johnny Storm was depicted as African American, because Johnny Storm and the Storm family were all originally created as white.

 

HOWEVER...

 

If they had chosen to introduce a new character who was African American who went through the FF origin story and came out as the Human Torch, that has potential to be a great story (and we would see it as parallel to the original FF story). He would still be just as much the Human Torch as any version of Johnny Storm, the 1940's android or Toro (616, Ultimate or otherwise). It's not about race, it's about specific character traits.

 

Like someone else mentioned, it's the same deal with Sue being from Russia instead of being American.

 

And again, when I say "I wouldn't like it", these are all relatively small setbacks in my book, and the Fantastic Four had way too much else going wrong with it for us to even consider blaming it on the race factor.

 

But all that said, I don't think anyone is trying to be racist here. (thumbs u And I hope I was able to piece that together somewhat coherently.

[Chris_Skeleton]

Why do you people keep talking about the whole black Johnny and white Sue dynamic? It's been spelled out over and over, adoption. Is that something you are unfamiliar with?

 

Does it put you in an uproar when you go out and see black families with adopted white children or vice versa? They changed the race and back story, we get it. If the movie is garbage, it's garbage. And it's not from changing the race and backstory of the Storms.

 

Some of you people are beginning to come off as sounding borderline racist.

 

Lord. I'm so tired of the racist card being thrown out when somebody mentions black torch. Most of the people complaining seem to take issue with it being an unnecessary change to the backstory. I've seen plenty of people also complain about Sue being Russian or whatever. Again, because it serves no added purpose to the story.

 

Stop throwing race cards around.

 

I said they sound borderline racist. I'm not going to call people out as racist as I have no way of knowing, but the posts don't help. He's black, so what? Why does this keep getting brought up?

 

As far as characterization goes, is there any traits that necessitate Johnny Storm being white?

[Doktor]

I don't like that the torch was a human. I wanted him to be a living rotisserie chicken. tasty tasty chicken.

[TheLiamSturgess]

[Kevin76]

I want a new punisher movie

Want another 1 dimensional character movie?

 

Aren't most?

 

No but Punisher...he thinks the world owes him something and that is his only motivation.

[Kevin76]

I saw the Deadpool trailer, Not impressed. The suit looks amazing, the jokes are terrible and he's just another vigilante out for revenge. Usually all the terrible movies come out in January and February. Movies don't start getting good until around May

[RockMyAmadeus]

Why do you people keep talking about the whole black Johnny and white Sue dynamic? It's been spelled out over and over, adoption. Is that something you are unfamiliar with?

 

Does it put you in an uproar when you go out and see black families with adopted white children or vice versa? They changed the race and back story, we get it. If the movie is garbage, it's garbage. And it's not from changing the race and backstory of the Storms.

 

Some of you people are beginning to come off as sounding borderline racist.

 

Would it be ok for a white actor to portray the Black Panther in a movie?

 

Would it make sense?

 

What about casting a Korean actor as Superman? Would that make sense?

 

How about a German man for the part of Psylocke?

 

How about casting Lebron James as Frodo Baggins?

 

Why does any of it have anything to do with racism?

 

How about simply remaining faithful to the source material? How is remaining faithful to the source material "borderline racist"?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Why do you people keep talking about the whole black Johnny and white Sue dynamic? It's been spelled out over and over, adoption. Is that something you are unfamiliar with?

 

Does it put you in an uproar when you go out and see black families with adopted white children or vice versa? They changed the race and back story, we get it. If the movie is garbage, it's garbage. And it's not from changing the race and backstory of the Storms.

 

Some of you people are beginning to come off as sounding borderline racist.

 

Lord. I'm so tired of the racist card being thrown out when somebody mentions black torch. Most of the people complaining seem to take issue with it being an unnecessary change to the backstory. I've seen plenty of people also complain about Sue being Russian or whatever. Again, because it serves no added purpose to the story.

 

Stop throwing race cards around.

 

I said they sound borderline racist. I'm not going to call people out as racist as I have no way of knowing, but the posts don't help. He's black, so what? Why does this keep getting brought up?

 

As far as characterization goes, is there any traits that necessitate Johnny Storm being white?

 

Yes. That's how he was created.

 

If you want a black human torch, create a new character, as Liam said. What's wrong with that?

 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with racism. I, and I suspect many others, would say the exact same thing if Storm were to be played by Jennifer Lawrence, or Cloak were to be played by Chris Hemsworth.

 

(Aside...can you imagine a C&D movie?? )

[Chris_Skeleton]

 

Would it be ok for a white actor to portray the Black Panther in a movie?

 

Would it make sense?

 

What about casting a Korean actor as Superman? Would that make sense?

 

How about a German man for the part of Psylocke?

 

How about casting Lebron James as Frodo Baggins?

 

Why does any of it have anything to do with racism?

 

How about simply remaining faithful to the source material? How is remaining faithful to the source material "borderline racist"?

 

The "sounding borderline racist" was regarding the people who just keep posting "OMG they made Johnny Storm black" and "how can they be related if they are different races?". If you want true to the source material, that is fine. Most of those people don't seem to be beating the dead horse.

 

And Black Panther IS African. I wouldn't expect a Wakandan to be a white man. However, Johnny Storm is American. So what does that mean?

 

How is it any different from any of the Marvel studios movies that deviate from the source material? But then you make Johnny Storm black and somehow it's wrong to do? I've just seen too many comments that keep bringing up the fact they made him black.

 

And it wouldn't bother me for a Korean man to be Superman. Why would an alien be white? That wouldn't necessitate being a caucasion. Maybe Clark Cho?

 

 

Yes. That's how he was created.

 

If you want a black human torch, create a new character, as Liam said. What's wrong with that?

 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with racism. I, and I suspect many others, would say the exact same thing if Storm were to be played by Jennifer Lawrence, or Cloak were to be played by Chris Hemsworth.

 

(Aside...can you imagine a C&D movie?? )

 

Nothing wrong with creating a black human torch either.

 

And setup Cloak and Dagger in the Spiderman movie. That would be awesome. And Chris Hemsworth couldn't be Cloak since he's already Thor. Hmm... How about Liam Hemsworth?

 

[maidenmate91]

I had my qualms about the whole thing as well, they should just stick to the source material. The moment a minority character is turned Caucasian it is considered white washing, but when a Caucasian char. is turned minority and you have a problem with it its racist? wildly_fanciful_statement!

 

I could care less about any of this race sensitive . Just stick to the source otherwise create a new char. such as Miles. Loved your point on a white cloak, storm etc... btw ::

[Artboy99]

I think the question is, why can't they make a decent FF movie? Why don't they have faith in the source material and keep altering it? Galactus as a cloud, Human Torch black? Are the characters too old fashioned or lame? Is there something wrong with the dynamics of the team?

 

I recently saw Antman and enjoyed it immensely. Surely his powers are no more interesting than any of the FF characters. Why does Antman seem interesting and funny and fresh and FF seems dead on arrival?

It's likely the upper management meddling.

 

Even the most creative and visionary artist can't carve something beautiful out of a rough stone if someone keeps moving the stone. You end up with a fugly mess.

 

And that's what seems to keep happening with Sony and Fox - they are not dedicated or vested to the source material the way Marvel would be and so they are fine with constantly changing it up. Only it creates inconsistency.

 

Imagine watching an FF movie where the 1st movie is a 1961 time piece the way Cap was a 1940 time piece. You have that dry, communist threat feel to the movie. It's filmed in an Alfred Hitchcock slightly horror angle feel. Even black and white until they gain their powers. It would be awesome.

 

There are just so many creative and wonderful ways to make a movie while remaining more or less faithful to the source material and meanwhile 3 kicks at the can and Fox still can't get it right.

 

Unbelievable.

 

Now we are talking! Great idea. I can see a decent writer coming up with that, but it getting voted down by some airhead at Fox who isn't getting his action beat every twelve minutes.

[Artboy99]

I saw the Deadpool trailer, Not impressed. The suit looks amazing, the jokes are terrible and he's just another vigilante out for revenge. Usually all the terrible movies come out in January and February. Movies don't start getting good until around May

 

I agree. The trailer looks absolutely awful to me. I don't like the loud mouthed punk attitude and seeing it play out on film is not going to work for me as I despise Deadpool to begin with and that doesn't help.

[Cat-Man_America]

I wouldn't like it if Luke Cage were depicted in a film adaptation as a white man. Not because I'm racist toward caucasian people, or interested in limiting his potential as a character open for interpretation, but because his character calls for him being African American.

 

I wouldn't like it if Peter Parker were depicted as African American in a film for the same reason. Peter Parker, as a character, happens to be from caucasian descent.

 

I would HATE IT if Miles Morales was depicted as white, for hopefully really obvious reasons.

 

I don't like that Johnny Storm was depicted as African American, because Johnny Storm and the Storm family were all originally created as white.

 

HOWEVER...

 

If they had chosen to introduce a new character who was African American who went through the FF origin story and came out as the Human Torch, that has potential to be a great story (and we would see it as parallel to the original FF story). He would still be just as much the Human Torch as any version of Johnny Storm, the 1940's android or Toro (616, Ultimate or otherwise). It's not about race, it's about specific character traits.

 

Like someone else mentioned, it's the same deal with Sue being from Russia instead of being American.

 

And again, when I say "I wouldn't like it", these are all relatively small setbacks in my book, and the Fantastic Four had way too much else going wrong with it for us to even consider blaming it on the race factor.

 

But all that said, I don't think anyone is trying to be racist here. (thumbs u And I hope I was able to piece that together somewhat coherently.

 

Well stated!

 

 

Why do you people keep talking about the whole black Johnny and white Sue dynamic? It's been spelled out over and over, adoption. Is that something you are unfamiliar with?

 

Does it put you in an uproar when you go out and see black families with adopted white children or vice versa? They changed the race and back story, we get it. If the movie is garbage, it's garbage. And it's not from changing the race and backstory of the Storms.

 

Some of you people are beginning to come off as sounding borderline racist.

 

Lord. I'm so tired of the racist card being thrown out when somebody mentions black torch. Most of the people complaining seem to take issue with it being an unnecessary change to the backstory. I've seen plenty of people also complain about Sue being Russian or whatever. Again, because it serves no added purpose to the story.

 

Stop throwing race cards around.

 

I said they sound borderline racist. I'm not going to call people out as racist as I have no way of knowing, but the posts don't help. He's black, so what? Why does this keep getting brought up?

 

As far as characterization goes, is there any traits that necessitate Johnny Storm being white?

 

And let me say this with crystal clarity, you'd be completely wrong!

 

FTR, race baiting is as offensive as racism. It would behoove you to adjust the tone of your rhetoric accordingly.

 

The reason that the casting of Johnny Storm continues to be brought up is that the actor was simply wrong for the part. His ethnicity may have been just one factor among many that prevented filmgoers and die-hard FF fans from suspending disbelief, but it certainly played a role.

 

As someone who has been involved in casting a film I strongly believe in diversity, but along with advocacy I'm also aware that the one thing a production can't afford is miscasting.

 

When designing a film around characters depicted in comics the creative vision should remain as true to the original concept as reasonably possible. That doesn't mean that in casting a film roles can't be scripted to be more inclusive or culturally representative, especially when updated to a modern timeline, but an origin story has certain expectations that need to be met.

 

What some folks fail to grasp is that re-envisoning original stories to appease some misguided notion that PC casting will fill more seats is one of the quickest ways to box-office failure.

 

There are many great ethnic heroes that should make it to the screen and when those films are produced I'll be among the first in line for tickets. All I ask of a film is that an effort is made to remain true to the original material. Otherwise, it isn't worth my time nor that of many fans of the genre.