Bosco685 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 Critics are people like anyone else, with their own personal likes and dislikes. They are going to bring their own bias to a critique, no matter what they say. Example: Joanna Robinson @ Vanity Fair. Someone that has made it clear on her Zack Snyder stance. And now after coming out trashing Justice League, she tweets about the weak villain to reinforce her dislike. 'Of all time'?? But then Joss Whedon, who has said nothing about Justice League 'likes' her tweet. Joss Whedon Sparks Fan Outrage After Liking Several Tweets Attacking Film's Villain Quote Not only were the visual fx criticized, but so was the film’s villain, Steppenwolf. Critics and fans seem to agree that the Apokoliptian general was a bit lackluster, and apparently so does Joss Whedon. Earlier today, Whedon liked several of a critic's tweets that harshly criticized the film’s villain, claiming that "Steppenwolf is the worst comic book movie villain of all time and not even Malekith the Accursed comes close." Of course, fans immediately saw Whedon's likes and were outraged, pointing out how Whedon has praised Taika Waititi's Thor: Ragnarok, yet has failed to make any mention of Justice League, the film he's been working on for the past few months. Oh well. This will be another DC film where the haters will rejoice, the fans will like it and be confused at the hate, and WB will move on with Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman 2. jsilverjanet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: Oh well. This will be another DC film where the haters will rejoice, the fans will like it and be confused at the hate, and WB will move on with Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman 2. Or...maybe it's simply not good? From the reviews it sounds a lot like Suicide Squad -- solid first third where we get to revel in individual character origin moments and then get to see how the team comes together. Culminating in the formation of the Justice League for the first time on film! But then the last third is bunk, weighed down by too-busy CGC, parademon gnats, and a weak-sauce villain. And apparently the CGC on Clark's face to hide is mustache could have been better. So good characters and fun to see on screen, but zero plot. Suicide Squad's first half hour was amazingly well done. It establshed Amanda as a bad- and introduced the other characters in cool moments as well. But then, rather than have them coordinate in a Mission Impossible-style adventure that plays to each of their strengths (a la Ostrander's '80s series), it has those characters do nothing but literally walk through a deserted city at night, occassionally fighting zombie rejects from House of the Dead II. With those characters, and that set-up, one of the best scenes is just them sitting talking at a bar. So much potential... So wasted... Edited November 16, 2017 by Gatsby77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: Yesssssssss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: This will be another DC film where the haters will rejoice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) I imagine the next thing to think about for the future of DC movies is how much control of this film Geoff Johns really had in terms of evaluating him fairly as the next possible Kevin Feige. Yes, he threw himself into it, but Zack Snyder had already been chosen as director before he got his current job, so I'm not really sure how much he could have done to change this from being a Zack Snyder style of film. Feige in a position of control simply never would have chosen Snyder. And the same goes for the success of Wonder Woman--Patty Jenkins was already on board before Johns took the helm, so you can't credit that to him either. It's the next films by new directors that will be all on him. Is Matt Reeves on the new Batman the first real Geoff Johns hire? Edited November 16, 2017 by fantastic_four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Seeing several articles about RT withholding the score and WB having a 30% stake in RT looks like manipulation and smells bad. Did we not mention that yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, drotto said: Seeing several articles about RT withholding the score and WB having a 30% stake in RT looks like manipulation and smells bad. Did we not mention that yesterday? First I've heard of it. How long have they had that stake? Any studio owning any portion of any source of criticism is a conflict of interest that undermines the critical source. If this is true, it severely damages their credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, fantastic_four said: How long have they had that stake? Sheesh, I'm seeing that Flixster bought RT in 2010, and Warner Brothers bought Flixster in 2011. I remember when that Flixster logo went up on the site back then, but I didn't realize they were owned by WB. Apparently WB sold Flixster to Comcast last year but retained a 30% ownership. So they owned them in full for five years. RT doesn't do their own reviews, but the bias would come in the way they select critics to include reviews for--they could choose ones with a history of being friendly to their own brands. This really sounds awful. Makes me want to know who owns Metacritic now! Edited November 16, 2017 by fantastic_four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Metacritic is CBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said: weighed down by too-busy CGC Typo? Or Freudian Slip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, drotto said: Metacritic is CBS. AAAAAAAHHHHH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Cool Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) This is bordering on criminal. Thursday morning when people start thinking about Friday night plans and there is still no score listed for Justice League. It's irritating me almost enough to not go see it this weekend and instead going to see that stupid Murder on the Orient movie my wife wants to see. Edited November 16, 2017 by 1Cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, Turtle said: Typo? Or Freudian Slip? Probably both. Obviously a typo. But probably also subconscious annoyance. I'm still waiting on some books that were received by CCS on July 10th and are currently sitting in CGC at "Verified." However, I did do the slowest of all slow tracks -- CCS review, pressing, regular track Silver Age, but still. Didn't think when I sent them in early July they'd be Christmas presents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said: Or...maybe it's simply not good? If that was the case, then it would deserve the shellacking. But when you have even non-comic book reviewers calling out the positives with this movie making it fun to attend, something seems odd. Other than differences in taste. Quote USA TODAY A better effort than Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and a worthy follow-up to runaway hit Wonder Woman, Justice League (*** out of four; rated PG-13; in theaters Thursday night) does the DC icons proud with some high-profile additions and a strong if unspectacular effort full of fun character moments. It’s also a product of two rather different filmmakers that, for the most part, ends up decently coherent. Director Zack Snyder (BvS, Man of Steel) again views his main characters through a way-dark palette and stylized lens, credited co-writer Joss Whedon (Avengers) — brought in to finish after Snyder stepped back due to a death in the family — adds his signature clever wit, and the result is an enjoyable romp with underlying emotion." - USA Today GAMESPOT Through all the setbacks, uncertainties, reshoots, shake-ups, and drama, it seemed unlikely that Justice League would wind up anything other than a complete mess. And yet, here we are: Justice League is a pretty good movie." - Gamespot SYFY WIRE So the question is: Does Justice League accomplish this? Most certainly so. It pulls the threads of previous DCEU installments to serve up an in-universe story, yet makes our heroes likable, and shows off what makes them super." - SyFy Wire CHICAGO SUN TIMES Doesn’t take much imagination to know how it’s all going to turn out — but the fun in “Justice League” is in seeing Affleck’s Batman and Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman teaming up with Ezra Miller’s Barry Allen/Flash, Jason Momoa’s Arthur Curry/Aquaman and Ray Fisher’s Victor Stone/Cyborg. It’s a putting-the-band-together origins movie, executed with great fun and energy." - Chicago Sun Times LA TIMES As directed by Zack Snyder, and, more importantly, co-written by Chris Terrio and Joss Whedon, character is more than destiny here. It is the key reason "Justice League" is a seriously satisfying superhero movie, one that, rife with lines like "the stench of your fear is making my soldiers hungry," actually feels like the earnest comic books of our squandered youth." -LA Times It's easy to focus on the negative. But there are also the positives out there that leave you wondering if these people watched the same movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 45 minutes ago, drotto said: Seeing several articles about RT withholding the score and WB having a 30% stake in RT looks like manipulation and smells bad. Did we not mention that yesterday? Other than the four times it was mentioned as WB's master plan, no. Yet the clear reason was Rotten Tomatoes making this a big show for it SeeItSkitIt Facebook show. Which it even publicized was the case. But even tin hats fit on Marvel fan heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 33 minutes ago, fantastic_four said: RT doesn't do their own reviews They do now. Check out this morning's "See It/Skip It" re. Justice League on their Facebook page. Not only do they reveal the RT numbers as of 3:00 pm yesterday, but both hosts review it. And it's weird. The woman didn't like it, voted "Skip It." The guy didn't really like it -- listed out all its flaws and then voted "See It" despite that. Same deal with my boy Scott Mendelson at Forbes. His title says it all: "A bad movie but a great time at the movies." Then he writes paragraphs criticizing it before ultimately forgiving it just for the joy of seeing these characters on screen at all. He's always been a weird apologist for Batman Forever but equates this film to that one -- an attempt at a light-hearted kid-friendly over-correction for Batman Returns. paperheart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 Quote As much as some folks feel Rotten Tomatoes is just some innocent averaging of critic opinions, and may or may not have an impact on movie results, this morning RT posted a message when officially they would be listing the Justice League score. Like it was a special event. Rotten Tomatoes Causes Controversy By Announcing Score Reveal For JUSTICE LEAGUE This Thursday Quote A lot of fans place a great deal of importance on Rotten Tomatoes scores and while many argue that they don't really mean anything, the fact is that moviegoers are influenced by it and often choose whether or not to see a film as a result. Well, the company is clearly aware of how controversial their scores can be when it comes to DC Comics adaptations and they've now upset an awful lot of people! As you can see below, Rotten Tomatoes is heading down an unprecedented route by revealing the score for Justice League on one of their Facebook videos. Whether or not this means a score won't be generated on the site until then isn't clear but it's a strange move bound to generate controversy. It's starting to look like RT is working towards making itself a final accessor on attending a film or not, versus 'just an aggregator of critic scores'. Rotten Tomatoes will delay the release of its Justice League score, raising eyebrows Quote A couple weeks ago, on October 31, Rotten Tomatoes announced the launch of a weekly show called Rotten Tomatoes See It / Skip It, broadcast on Facebook via the social media site’s Watch platform. One of the show’s regular features is a “Tomatometer Score Reveal” — and this week’s reveal is Justice League, the hotly anticipated DC Extended Universe movie that unites Batman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Aquaman, The Flash, and Superman. The episode containing the reveal is scheduled to air at 12:01 am on Thursday, November 16. The choice to hold the film’s Tomatometer score is a savvy one, from Rotten Tomatoes’ perspective — especially as advertising for See It / Skip It. The site has long billed itself as merely a review aggregator, a kind of landing spot that gathers the critical opinions of thousands of “Tomatometer-approved critics” around the world, then assigns a score that correlates to the percentage of positive reviews. But the site also publishes news, interviews, and columns, and by moving into original programming with See It / Skip It, hosted by entertainment journalists Jacqueline Coley and Segun Oduolowu, Rotten Tomatoes seems to be edging toward not just pointing towards others’ opinions but serving up some of its own. And they are going to use Justice League to kick this service off versus any of the more recent films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Just now, Bosco685 said: Other than the four times it was mentioned as WB's master plan, no. Yet the clear reason was Rotten Tomatoes making this a big show for it SeeItSkitIt Facebook show. Which it even publicized was the case. But even tin hats fit on Marvel fan heads. I know why it was done. But in today’s world they need to be smarter and realize that the optics on this were going to be bad, especially since the bad vibe that had been simmering by lifting the embargo so late. Plus, the time for the show was again poor. By going with a 12 AM EST broadcast at least 60% if not more of the country is going to be asleep. It is why most media plans on doing major releases based on the east coast, and will make the time 8 or 9 PM EST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bane Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Interesting comment on the villain.... After all the Marvel movies that have come out their best villain is still..... Loki. DC's is still Zod... in BvS the villain was erm, Superman, no Batman, no Luthor, no that cave troll from Fellowship of the Ring, Suicide Squad it was... who cares it was a terrible movie and I haven't yet seen Wonder Woman so cannot comment. Steppenwolf appears to be the equivalent of Ronan from GotG? If Steppenwolf is beaten by the JL holding hands then I'll agree. Infinity War needs to make sure that Thanos is the baddest of the bad and that a few heroes are killed off, DC needs to do the same with Darkseid... because the run of villains over the last few years have been somewhat lame/weak from both companies. Rockyjo3, Bosco685 and jsilverjanet 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I have little problem with their little "Score Reveal" BS compared to their not actually then posting the reviews (and updated score) to the site by Thursday at 9:00 am. Every other major release (and some minor releases) are up and running on the site, and they did their "score reveal" nearly 9 hours ago now. And they can't say this "wasn't screened for critics" because it was -- last night, if somehow they didn't already catch it Monday night. paperheart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
