Question for Heritage and comiclink reps wrt Burkey admission 2 2

[Bird]

I did in fact contact Heritage via email Sunday evening ( my particular situation is summarized about 10 pages back) and got a call from the person that handles consignments on Monday. He said they did review my purchase and that the bid beneath me and the winning bid (which ended up being vacated) were from bidders he was familiar with and that he considered legitimate.

 

For what it's worth, he did say he was familiar with these threads and with the situation and would be reviewing all of the art consigned by Romitaman.

 

As for what that means...people will have opinions on that. They very well could be doing that. I suppose it's possible that it's just spin and they are hoping this goes away quickly. It would be interesting to hear from other folks that feel they've been affected and what communication they have with Heritage.

 

 

 

It would be interesting to know if these underbidders were also underbidders on other items of Mike's.

[pinupcartoonguy]

The problem is on any given lot, it's hard to tell if there were any shinangans. Who knows how many people might have been involved in bidding stuff up?

[Lucky Baru]

I did in fact contact Heritage via email Sunday evening ( my particular situation is summarized about 10 pages back) and got a call from the person that handles consignments on Monday. He said they did review my purchase and that the bid beneath me and the winning bid (which ended up being vacated) were from bidders he was familiar with and that he considered legitimate.

 

For what it's worth, he did say he was familiar with these threads and with the situation and would be reviewing all of the art consigned by Romitaman.

 

As for what that means...people will have opinions on that. They very well could be doing that. I suppose it's possible that it's just spin and they are hoping this goes away quickly. It would be interesting to hear from other folks that feel they've been affected and what communication they have with Heritage.

 

 

 

It would be interesting to know if these underbidders were also underbidders on other items of Mike's.

 

I spoke with HA in the last two days. I was informed that they believe that I paid the FMV on the auctions I won. They advised that Mike did not bid on the items I won. They could not advise if any "friends" bid on the items as they do not know who the "friends" are or were. The representative I spoke with advised they had received a lot of phone calls about the situation. He also stated that Mike wrote an apology.

 

[Twanj]

I spoke with HA in the last two days. I was informed that they believe that I paid the FMV on the auctions I won. They advised that Mike did not bid on the items I won. They could not advise if any "friends" bid on the items as they do not know who the "friends" are or were. The representative I spoke with advised they had received a lot of phone calls about the situation. He also stated that Mike wrote an apology.

 

so basically a CYA "nothing to see here, move along" with no substance.

 

I can understand not wanting to publicly name the shill proxy bidders, but they should be named to the auction houses. otherwise, the apology is just empty words. no way to verify or audit what went on.

[Peter G]

I spoke with HA in the last two days. I was informed that they believe that I paid the FMV on the auctions I won. They advised that Mike did not bid on the items I won. They could not advise if any "friends" bid on the items as they do not know who the "friends" are or were. The representative I spoke with advised they had received a lot of phone calls about the situation. He also stated that Mike wrote an apology.

 

so basically a CYA "nothing to see here, move along" with no substance.

 

I can understand not wanting to publicly name the shill proxy bidders, but they should be named to the auction houses. otherwise, the apology is just empty words. no way to verify or audit what went on.

 

The proxies will not be named unless there is a lawsuit (criminal or civil) and the co-conspirators names obtained via discovery. That much should be obvious.

[AnkurJ]

Is there a way to find out what items he has consigned to upcoming auctions?

[vodou]

I spoke with HA in the last two days. I was informed that they believe that I paid the FMV on the auctions I won. They advised that Mike did not bid on the items I won. They could not advise if any "friends" bid on the items as they do not know who the "friends" are or were. The representative I spoke with advised they had received a lot of phone calls about the situation. He also stated that Mike wrote an apology.

 

so basically a CYA "nothing to see here, move along" with no substance.

 

I can understand not wanting to publicly name the shill proxy bidders, but they should be named to the auction houses. otherwise, the apology is just empty words. no way to verify or audit what went on.

 

The proxies will not be named unless there is a lawsuit (criminal or civil) and the co-conspirators names obtained via discovery. That much should be obvious.

HA is playing dumb (to an extent). At least 'one' and maybe 'some' of the co-conspirators are the 'winning bidders' of all the pieces identified on the first several pages of Glen's Weird topic. Also Kirby Fantastic Four 41 page 11 which I identified. That's a small but still useful sample to begin with. All of which is already available to be investigated in-house to identify potential shill situations all Mike's other consignments. Certainly patterns of behavior will become evident. The sleuths around here can probably find more examples too and pass them to HA, if motivated. Mike said 100 pieces were shilled by friends.

 

Understand how strong HA's position is here, by dealing with only one-off inquiries, they can answer one-off privately (making anything posted here hearsay) avoiding sweeping statements (and/or gestures of goodwill) and never have to address any pieces where the winner does not contact them, does not ask "wtf?" That's called containment. To nobody's advantage but HA's.

 

100% disclosure, or anything even close to that can only come from Mike though. And as Peter states, probably only under discovery. He already voluntarily shot himself in the foot , unlikely to happen again.

 

However -the next time somebody calls in, give them this idea above and see what they say, give them some room to work and and make a public statement. The hiding in the shadows, the willful blindness, needs to end.

[BCarter27]

Signature Auction is open for bids.

[Mmehdy]

The solution for ha is to simply say the art is from the MB collection... They do it all the time for other collectors .... And would give future ha bidders a leg up and others to carefully watch what is going on

 

 

[jaybuck43]

I spoke with HA in the last two days. I was informed that they believe that I paid the FMV on the auctions I won. They advised that Mike did not bid on the items I won. They could not advise if any "friends" bid on the items as they do not know who the "friends" are or were. The representative I spoke with advised they had received a lot of phone calls about the situation. He also stated that Mike wrote an apology.

 

so basically a CYA "nothing to see here, move along" with no substance.

 

I can understand not wanting to publicly name the shill proxy bidders, but they should be named to the auction houses. otherwise, the apology is just empty words. no way to verify or audit what went on.

 

The proxies will not be named unless there is a lawsuit (criminal or civil) and the co-conspirators names obtained via discovery. That much should be obvious.

 

Peter, discovery does not work that way. IF there was a lawsuit (civil) or charges levied (criminal) then the prosecuting body (be it the government in a criminal case or the Plaintiff's attorney in a civil case) will subpoena information. Mike is protected by the fifth amendment from being compelled to make any statements against interest. So he does not have to name any "co-conspirators".

 

Now in theory the prosecuting body would have to try to get that information from a third party (cellular network, email company etc) but I can tell you from experience that those parties will fight almost any subpoena tooth and nail, and in most cases (especially civil ones) win. So getting Verizon/AT&T to turn over Mike's text records (with the actual content) may be impossible. And that of course is assuming Mike put it in writing. If Mike just called a friend and said it, then there would be no record.

 

This is again the reason I have called for people to slow down the blood lust and try to get information. There is still so much not known, and calling Heritage or the FBI won't do anything to help that at this point.

[jaybuck43]

I spoke with HA in the last two days. I was informed that they believe that I paid the FMV on the auctions I won. They advised that Mike did not bid on the items I won. They could not advise if any "friends" bid on the items as they do not know who the "friends" are or were. The representative I spoke with advised they had received a lot of phone calls about the situation. He also stated that Mike wrote an apology.

 

so basically a CYA "nothing to see here, move along" with no substance.

 

I can understand not wanting to publicly name the shill proxy bidders, but they should be named to the auction houses. otherwise, the apology is just empty words. no way to verify or audit what went on.

 

The proxies will not be named unless there is a lawsuit (criminal or civil) and the co-conspirators names obtained via discovery. That much should be obvious.

HA is playing dumb (to an extent). At least 'one' and maybe 'some' of the co-conspirators are the 'winning bidders' of all the pieces identified on the first several pages of Glen's Weird topic. Also Kirby Fantastic Four 41 page 11 which I identified. That's a small but still useful sample to begin with. All of which is already available to be investigated in-house to identify potential shill situations all Mike's other consignments. Certainly patterns of behavior will become evident. The sleuths around here can probably find more examples too and pass them to HA, if motivated. Mike said 100 pieces were shilled by friends.

 

Understand how strong HA's position is here, by dealing with only one-off inquiries, they can answer one-off privately (making anything posted here hearsay) avoiding sweeping statements (and/or gestures of goodwill) and never have to address any pieces where the winner does not contact them, does not ask "wtf?" That's called containment. To nobody's advantage but HA's.

 

100% disclosure, or anything even close to that can only come from Mike though. And as Peter states, probably only under discovery. He already voluntarily shot himself in the foot , unlikely to happen again.

 

However -the next time somebody calls in, give them this idea above and see what they say, give them some room to work and and make a public statement. The hiding in the shadows, the willful blindness, needs to end.

 

Vodou. Mike admitted that he has had friends buy pieces for him in about 100 cases. He did not admit that the pieces mentioned by Glen were part of those 100 cases. It is possible that Mike knew who the winners were and called them and offered to buy the pieces back because he wanted them back because he felt they sold for too little. (heck I had that happen to me on eBay once where the seller sent me a message after winning saying he had hoped for the piece to sell for a lot more and said that while he was willing to go through with the deal, he offered me a sum of money to cover me forgiving the purchase. I wanted the piece so I declined (and he did ship it))

 

I would suggest not lumping those individuals in without more knowledge or attempting to get that knowledge, there is no way of knowing if they were associated unless Mike says otherwise (or they themselves volunteer the knowledge.)

 

[vodou]

Okay. I meant that it is a place to start, where HA was saying there is no place to start. None us outside Mike/friends knows anything for certain -just the things that don't pass our individual smell tests.

[Bronty]

I understand your points except I don't follow from this post or your previous one about what you see as the process with which to best get information. You're describing how they can block attempts to get cell phone info but what are your thoughts on how to actually get any info?

 

The whole reason (I presume) for those posting in a manner which you find aggressive is because there's a perception by some that precious little info will come without pressure.

 

Can you reconcile those thoughts for me; explain why you think cooling anything is a more effective way of extracting info? Because I very much think that's the question in the mind of the more hawkish types.

[eewwnuk]

jaybuck, that's a stretch that he would miraculously know the winners of 100 pieces.

[Bronty]

Jay these posts move quick - my last post was re your post to Peter g about the discovery process

[Peter G]

I spoke with HA in the last two days. I was informed that they believe that I paid the FMV on the auctions I won. They advised that Mike did not bid on the items I won. They could not advise if any "friends" bid on the items as they do not know who the "friends" are or were. The representative I spoke with advised they had received a lot of phone calls about the situation. He also stated that Mike wrote an apology.

 

so basically a CYA "nothing to see here, move along" with no substance.

 

I can understand not wanting to publicly name the shill proxy bidders, but they should be named to the auction houses. otherwise, the apology is just empty words. no way to verify or audit what went on.

 

The proxies will not be named unless there is a lawsuit (criminal or civil) and the co-conspirators names obtained via discovery. That much should be obvious.

 

Peter, discovery does not work that way. IF there was a lawsuit (civil) or charges levied (criminal) then the prosecuting body (be it the government in a criminal case or the Plaintiff's attorney in a civil case) will subpoena information. Mike is protected by the fifth amendment from being compelled to make any statements against interest. So he does not have to name any "co-conspirators".

 

Now in theory the prosecuting body would have to try to get that information from a third party (cellular network, email company etc) but I can tell you from experience that those parties will fight almost any subpoena tooth and nail, and in most cases (especially civil ones) win. So getting Verizon/AT&T to turn over Mike's text records (with the actual content) may be impossible. And that of course is assuming Mike put it in writing. If Mike just called a friend and said it, then there would be no record.

 

This is again the reason I have called for people to slow down the blood lust and try to get information. There is still so much not known, and calling Heritage or the FBI won't do anything to help that at this point.

 

[Peter G]

So Mike won't cooperate and "roll over" like he did on the board ? This is gonna have to be done the hard way you think ?

[Peter G]

You do realize Jaybuck that heritage has all the names of mikes "friends" ? That doesn't need to be subpoenaed. So long as heritage as named party, I am pretty sure that information will flow during discovery. There is no need to subpoena Mike. Although it would have been nice if he was cooperative in this matter.

[Mmehdy]

That is why my solution was the only real one. Sure there is a bunch of chest pounding .....but it is just talk... Nobody is gonna do anything about it... So to all of us who overpaid, lost art we should of won, and all the persons affected indirectly... We get "sorry"..., and that is it... We are all talk and no action... The auction houses says everything is ok, Mike says I won't do it again....that is what they are counting on.... Now my question is are they right about us?

[Peter G]

And Jaybuck please refrain from ever telling me "how things work"

Edited January 27, 2016 by Peter G