August Heritage Auction

[suspense39]

Here's a few off the top of my head

 

Kirby

Ditko

Colan

Steranko

 

Appreciate the list, but I was specifically asking Bronty because he doesn't believe Romita is a top tier silver age artist. So Id like to know who he considers a top tier silver age artist.

 

Boris Vallejo for sure.

 

Other than that my list is not that different, although I don't believe in "A, B, C" tiers like this is a grade school report card or something. That said I personally hold all of these in higher regard and this is off the cuff, I'm sure I'm forgetting several others:

 

Robert Crumb.

 

Kirby.

 

Steranko.

 

Joe Kubert.

 

Steve Ditko.

 

Gil Kane.

 

 

I also don't think its necessary to limit the list to "silver age" because early silver age Jack is doing everything, late 60s there's a vacuum, and early 70s it gets filled with all sorts of talents like wrightson and adams that I would put above romita, personally, as well.

 

 

 

I was thinking mainstream hero comics, but Crumb.....A+++!!!! (Not joking)

[Bronty]

Agreed.

 

Romita really should have been a DC artist. He fits in with the clean lines, don't rock the boat look DC had going on.

 

Although I'd argue if you're going to look at things that way, Swanderson did it better.

 

I think he's most like Infantino. You can prefer one or the other based on style but its a pretty fair fight in terms of where they fit into the pantheon, IMO.

[adamstrange]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

 

I think he did a great job on Spiderman (as well as the other titles he worked on). I definitely put him in the "A" category.

 

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

I don't know, his work on Daredevil and Captain America are really nice as well.

 

 

Romita is a 2nd Tier but often very expensive artist who occasionally did work of a higher caliber (e.g. Daredevil-Spidey crossover and some of his first Spidey issues).

 

So which artists do you consider 1st tier silver age artist?

Some, in no particular order, for their work 1956 - 1969:

 

Kirby

Heath

Steranko (I forgive him for his first year or so in the biz)

Kubert

Ditko

Infantino

Everett (more for his work with Atlas 1956-57 than for his later Marvel art)

Toth

Barks

 

Romita's cover to Spidey 50 is on my list of Top10 SA covers so I do think he hit it out of the park a few times.

[adamstrange]

Agreed.

 

Romita really should have been a DC artist. He fits in with the clean lines, don't rock the boat look DC had going on.

 

Post Atlas implosion he drew almost exclusively for DC's romance comics until he made the shift to Marvel

[Bronty]

Agreed.

 

Romita really should have been a DC artist. He fits in with the clean lines, don't rock the boat look DC had going on.

 

Post Atlas implosion he drew almost exclusively for DC's romance comics.

 

Interesting. I was aware he had done a fair bit of romance but for some reason I thought it was an earlier date.

[adamstrange]

Agreed.

 

Romita really should have been a DC artist. He fits in with the clean lines, don't rock the boat look DC had going on.

 

Post Atlas implosion he drew almost exclusively for DC's romance comics.

 

Interesting. I was aware he had done a fair bit of romance but for some reason I thought it was an earlier date.

He was working at DC drawing romance when Stan Lee convinced him to come to Marvel.

[Bronty]

I see you edited to include Barks.

 

One of the first names that came to mind for me as well although he was starting to diminish around 1959 so I chose to leave him off.

 

But that brings to mind the point that there is no reason to limit the list to the 1960s only.

 

I mean sure, if we throw enough limitations into the mix we can make him #1 if we want to. I mean, he's certainly the finest artist named John Romita. Hmmm wait, even that's debatable Although I'd certainly give it to him over Junior.

[Bronty]

Agreed.

 

Romita really should have been a DC artist. He fits in with the clean lines, don't rock the boat look DC had going on.

 

Post Atlas implosion he drew almost exclusively for DC's romance comics.

 

Interesting. I was aware he had done a fair bit of romance but for some reason I thought it was an earlier date.

He was working at DC drawing romance when Stan Lee convinced him to come to Marvel.

 

Appreciate the lesson sir.

[suspense39]

That's the thing, if it's limited to strictly mainstream silver age hero artists, he's up there, but once you start including, Crumb, Mccay, Kirby.....basically all the great masters over comic history, he falls down the list.

[bluechip]

I see you edited to include Barks.

 

One of the first names that came to mind for me as well although he was starting to diminish around 1959 so I chose to leave him off.

 

But that brings to mind the point that there is no reason to limit the list to the 1960s only.

 

I mean sure, if we throw enough limitations into the mix we can make him #1 if we want to. I mean, he's certainly the finest artist named John Romita. Hmmm wait, even that's debatable Although I'd certainly give it to him over Junior.

 

These debates veer wildly. Some guys make reasonable assessments and critiques and then the next thing you know it devolves into name-calling.

 

Just because you don't like somebody's choice of style doesn't mean they are bad.

 

And sometimes you can like an artist's style on certain types of scenes but not on others.

 

Ditko's style on Dr. Strange's otherworldly depictions and Spider-man fight scenes was great, in my view. But I shudder to think of how he might've drawn the "you hit the jackpot" reveal of MJ Watson.

 

IMV Romita never equaled what Ditko did in those quirky fight scenes but he often hit the jackpot with his own style of fight scenes and created a lot of iconic images of Spider-man. .

(so many memorable covers -- 39, 50, 65, 68-71, 100, etc)

 

So often people get caught up in who is the name it gets lost that the main reason these things are collected is that the comics were culturally significant and the images were memorable an riveting . The "best" artists stood out not because they were the only ones who created riveting images but because they did it more often than the others.

 

The best Ayers images are better than the worst Jack Kirby images. But we are so caught up in the metrics that Kirby is worth multiples of Ayers that the quality of the images rarely makes a difference because we're so caught up in the conventional wisdom of the math.

[Bronty]

 

The best Ayers images are better than the worst Jack Kirby images.

 

absolutely.

 

But kirby + ayers together, now that's the ticket

[Dr. Love]

If not for romance comics the comic world as you know it today wouldn't exist.

 

No DC romance - no Romita

No Romita romance - no post Ditko Spidey with hot Gwen and MJ

no hot Gwen and MJ - no Spidey sales to teenage boys

 

everything followed from there

[suspense39]

Kirby is credited with inventing the romance genre.

[batman_fan]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

 

I think he did a great job on Spiderman (as well as the other titles he worked on). I definitely put him in the "A" category.

 

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

I don't know, his work on Daredevil and Captain America are really nice as well.

Romita is a 2nd Tier but often very expensive artist who occasionally did work of a higher caliber (e.g. Daredevil-Spidey crossover and some of his first Spidey issues).

 

If Romita is the benchmark for 2nd tier, here is where I would put some other artist some consider top tier

 

Frank Miller - 4th tier, in general, pretty poor from an artist standpoint and poor composition in most of his work although there are a few splashes and panels that are better than the rest. His Dark Knight work has to be some of the worst

 

Staranko - 4th tier, com on, can't you be somewhat consistent in your work? Some stuff is really nice but other stuff is just plan jacked up.

 

Gene Colan - 3rd tier. Some good composition but dude, use an anatomy book a little more often

 

Steve Ditko - 4th tier - thank good you got put on Spider-Man otherwise no one would even know who you are.

 

You get the point. Some much of who is top tier and who is not is personal preference. Beyond that is it just a bunch of mumbo jumbo BS trying to justify why you have the opinion.

 

 

[Bronty]

If not for romance comics the comic world as you know it today wouldn't exist.

 

No DC romance - no Romita

No Romita romance - no post Ditko Spidey with hot Gwen and MJ

no hot Gwen and MJ - no Spidey sales to teenage boys

 

everything followed from there

 

Yeah but if we had no DC romance there'd be no greggy as we know him, so...

[Bronty]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

 

I think he did a great job on Spiderman (as well as the other titles he worked on). I definitely put him in the "A" category.

 

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

I don't know, his work on Daredevil and Captain America are really nice as well.

Romita is a 2nd Tier but often very expensive artist who occasionally did work of a higher caliber (e.g. Daredevil-Spidey crossover and some of his first Spidey issues).

 

If Romita is the benchmark for 2nd tier, here is where I would put some other artist some consider top tier

 

Frank Miller - 4th tier, in general, pretty poor from an artist standpoint and poor composition in most of his work although there are a few splashes and panels that are better than the rest. His Dark Knight work has to be some of the worst

 

Staranko - 4th tier, com on, can't you be somewhat consistent in your work? Some stuff is really nice but other stuff is just plan jacked up.

 

Gene Colan - 3rd tier. Some good composition but dude, use an anatomy book a little more often

 

Steve Ditko - 4th tier - thank good you got put on Spider-Man otherwise no one would even know who you are.

 

You get the point. Some much of who is top tier and who is not is personal preference. Beyond that is it just a bunch of mumbo jumbo BS trying to justify why you have the opinion.

 

 

So art is subjective? Yes. But Romita is Ringo Starr, not John Lennon, we established that a few pages back

[batman_fan]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

 

I think he did a great job on Spiderman (as well as the other titles he worked on). I definitely put him in the "A" category.

 

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

I don't know, his work on Daredevil and Captain America are really nice as well.

Romita is a 2nd Tier but often very expensive artist who occasionally did work of a higher caliber (e.g. Daredevil-Spidey crossover and some of his first Spidey issues).

 

If Romita is the benchmark for 2nd tier, here is where I would put some other artist some consider top tier

 

Frank Miller - 4th tier, in general, pretty poor from an artist standpoint and poor composition in most of his work although there are a few splashes and panels that are better than the rest. His Dark Knight work has to be some of the worst

 

Staranko - 4th tier, com on, can't you be somewhat consistent in your work? Some stuff is really nice but other stuff is just plan jacked up.

 

Gene Colan - 3rd tier. Some good composition but dude, use an anatomy book a little more often

 

Steve Ditko - 4th tier - thank good you got put on Spider-Man otherwise no one would even know who you are.

 

You get the point. Some much of who is top tier and who is not is personal preference. Beyond that is it just a bunch of mumbo jumbo BS trying to justify why you have the opinion.

 

 

So art is subjective? Yes. But Romita is Ringo Starr, not John Lennon, we established that a few pages back

 

Which version of John Lennon? The hyped version that was "the greatest song writer of all times" or the real version with mediocre talent at best.

[Bronty]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

 

I think he did a great job on Spiderman (as well as the other titles he worked on). I definitely put him in the "A" category.

 

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

I don't know, his work on Daredevil and Captain America are really nice as well.

Romita is a 2nd Tier but often very expensive artist who occasionally did work of a higher caliber (e.g. Daredevil-Spidey crossover and some of his first Spidey issues).

 

If Romita is the benchmark for 2nd tier, here is where I would put some other artist some consider top tier

 

Frank Miller - 4th tier, in general, pretty poor from an artist standpoint and poor composition in most of his work although there are a few splashes and panels that are better than the rest. His Dark Knight work has to be some of the worst

 

Staranko - 4th tier, com on, can't you be somewhat consistent in your work? Some stuff is really nice but other stuff is just plan jacked up.

 

Gene Colan - 3rd tier. Some good composition but dude, use an anatomy book a little more often

 

Steve Ditko - 4th tier - thank good you got put on Spider-Man otherwise no one would even know who you are.

 

You get the point. Some much of who is top tier and who is not is personal preference. Beyond that is it just a bunch of mumbo jumbo BS trying to justify why you have the opinion.

 

 

So art is subjective? Yes. But Romita is Ringo Starr, not John Lennon, we established that a few pages back

 

Which version of John Lennon? The hyped version that was "the greatest song writer of all times" or the real version with mediocre talent at best.

 

The Beatles aren't my favorite band, so I'll pass on the analysis, but either version is better than Ringo

[bluechip]

 

The best Ayers images are better than the worst Jack Kirby images.

 

absolutely.

 

But kirby + ayers together, now that's the ticket

 

Agreed. Love the early Kirby-Ayers work on FF, Avengers, Sgt. Fury etc

[Bronty]

Plus all the prehero work before that, especially.