Pedigree trying to sell art now? 3 3

[batman_fan]

Only a small handful of OA pieces actually sold (mostly low-end stuff). Main consignor seems to be Coolines (no big surprises that reserves weren't met).

 

Love to hear the auction house's reaction to this embarrassing fiasco?

 

 

You got to admit it helps make piece become stale faster

[Terry Doyle]

Only a small handful of OA pieces actually sold (mostly low-end stuff). Main consignor seems to be Coolines (no big surprises that reserves weren't met).

 

Love to hear the auction house's reaction to this embarrassing fiasco?

 

 

You got to admit it helps make piece become stale faster

 

I just e-mailed the OA contact at Pedigree to enquire about the background to this fiasco. If I hear anything back, I'll post the reply on this thread . . .

[RICKYBOBBY]

In Europe we don't have this kind of discussion, because all auctioned items (I mean *real* auctions - not eBay - such as the ones from Christie's, Sotheby's, Artcurial, Millon...) have an estimation, and all auctioned items have a reserve price which is often set at the low estimation price. Which means in fact that estimations are not real expert estimations but are driven by the reserve price negociated with the seller.

 

 

Interesting. What percentage of those auction items sell, by meeting their reserve? Most?

Also, does bidding start at the reserve price?

 

Auction houses tend to refuse items if the seller asks for a reserve too high. If they have many items not sold at auction, it doesn't look good.

 

Pedigree take note.

 

+1

Any other auction house won't take items at ridiculous reserves, they will just say no. Why wouldn't anyone at Pedigree do a similar process? Lots of Coolines items + high reserves, how could have anyone taken this auction seriously.

 

RickyB

[Mephisto]

It seems they had a hard time getting many consigners to start. With their being so many already established comic art auction venues they should have advertised a slightly lower than 10% commission (like ComicConnect did when they first launched) just to get their foot in the door and also to start off on the right foot, because after the results of this first auction it will be even harder to sign up new people to list their pieces in their next auction.

[AKA Rick]

With their being so many already established comic art auction venues they should have advertised a slightly lower than 10% commission

 

In the world of auctions, much like other business relationships, the evaluation of commission structures is so subjective and the actual numbers are often meaningless.

 

You look at ComicLink VS Heritage, as an example

 

In theory...

 

If a piece sells NET (after any buyer commission premiums) to buyer for $100,000. So, it's the exact same out of pocket expense of $100k as the bottom line price a buyer pays.

 

That means at ComicLink it sells for $100,000 since there's a 0% buyer's premium.

 

And at Heritage with there is, I believe a 19.5% buyer's premium, so in actuality, the sales price is around $84,000 and then that 19.5% around $16,000 is the buyer's premium that culminates to that $100,000 total a buyer pays.

 

So, then you look at it from the seller's perspective. If a buyer has a budget of $100,000, then if you can get a 10% commission at ComicLink, then you pay them $10,000 and net $90,000

 

But under that same scenario, if you are paying half that commission at Heritage, at 5%, you're getting that $84,000 sales price less $4,200, and netting $79,800 as what you'd receive as the seller.

 

So, in this case, the lower 5% is not better than 10% as a commission, and in fact, even if Heritage was at 0% sellers commission, you'd still net more paying 10% commission off of the higher sales price achieved, as you can see by the simple math.

 

The "x-factor" to the numbers is the ability of the auction house to bring in the bidders and extract the highest bids, of course.

 

So, that's why I don't really read too much into commission fees as the steadfast rule for deciding who or where to sell.

[staffman]

Nice breakdown of the prices a seller can gain on the auction houses.

 

Much appreciated.

[Mephisto]

With their being so many already established comic art auction venues they should have advertised a slightly lower than 10% commission

 

In the world of auctions, much like other business relationships, the evaluation of commission structures is so subjective and the actual numbers are often meaningless.

 

You look at ComicLink VS Heritage, as an example

 

In theory...

 

If a piece sells NET (after any buyer commission premiums) to buyer for $100,000. So, it's the exact same out of pocket expense of $100k as the bottom line price a buyer pays.

 

That means at ComicLink it sells for $100,000 since there's a 0% buyer's premium.

 

And at Heritage with there is, I believe a 19.5% buyer's premium, so in actuality, the sales price is around $84,000 and then that 19.5% around $16,000 is the buyer's premium that culminates to that $100,000 total a buyer pays.

 

So, then you look at it from the seller's perspective. If a buyer has a budget of $100,000, then if you can get a 10% commission at ComicLink, then you pay them $10,000 and net $90,000

 

But under that same scenario, if you are paying half that commission at Heritage, at 5%, you're getting that $84,000 sales price less $4,200, and netting $79,800 as what you'd receive as the seller.

 

So, in this case, the lower 5% is not better than 10% as a commission, and in fact, even if Heritage was at 0% sellers commission, you'd still net more paying 10% commission off of the higher sales price achieved, as you can see by the simple math.

 

The "x-factor" to the numbers is the ability of the auction house to bring in the bidders and extract the highest bids, of course.

 

So, that's why I don't really read too much into commission fees as the steadfast rule for deciding who or where to sell.

 

I don't even see how that all applies to what I stated about It offering something like that to get it off the ground. The X-factor you mention is the exact reason why they needed something like lower commission to break the ice with consigners. Otherwise why not just go with Comiclink since they are established and have that X-factor already, it's going be less risk with likely higher reward. Didn't you go with Comiclink for the Jusko FF painting and it didn't sell but then it did on Heritage? Not all buyers for a perspective piece will even look or bid the same on Heritage vs Comiclink. Given the same budget I would bid less on Heritage due to NY state tax and to be honest I don't even pay as close attention to their auctions. Comiclinks auctions came about well after Heritage had established auctions and didn't have an X-factor at the onset but are now thriving.

[AKA Rick]

 

Didn't you go with Comiclink for the Jusko FF painting and it didn't sell but then it did on Heritage? Not all buyers for a perspective piece will even look or bid the same on Heritage vs Comiclink.

 

It wasn't apples to apples in that when offered on ComicLink it had a reserve, and at Heritage it had no reserve.

 

Like anything else in life when comparing you need to test to get a comparison. So, I tested trying both auction houses.

 

To be honest, I will say I one hundred 100% percent tout the great name of ComicLink for their customer care and client services, which is a huge x-factor for me to why ComicLink is my auction house of choice for consignments.

 

They're able to attract the right bidders, especially for super-hero art from Silver Age to present.

 

I'm also a big advocate for "no reserve" auctions when others ask my advice. I feel reserves inhibit the bidding process from the start. My personal attitude is to simply roll the dice knowing with confidence I'm comfortable that ComicLink can get me fair market value or more, trusting the piece I have, and also seeking their opinions and advice to what price a piece might be able to achieve. I'd say 95% I'd never do an auction with a reserve.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by AKA Rick

[Matches_Malone]

This.

[Eric Seffinga]

That's a great great page. But why the hell'd someone let Lee near it with a Sharpie of all things??? One of life's mysteries?

 

Also, personal pet-peve. What the heck is a 1/3 splash. It's either THE splash, or it's not. It's a great large bottom panel. The odd ways people choose to try and puff up their art to make it sound more important and impressive... man this page doesn't need made up terms like 1/3 splash. It speaks for itself.

 

 

[Matches_Malone]

Quarter mil,...Half Mil?

Edited November 4, 2016 by Matches_Malone

[Meeley Man]

Quarter mil,...Half Mil?

 

Doesn't matter, it won't break whatever the reserve on it will be, anyway.

[Mr. Machismo]

Wow, that's insane. GREAT page.

 

Stan Lee thing baffles me.

[dem1138]

I don't see this page as being as significantly iconic as is being touted. Its certainly a wonderful page (and the last image was used as the corner box and elsewhere) but its neither the first page that he appears in the book (he's on the splash and who is to say definitively whether the splash was stated from the cover or the cover was stated from the splash) nor is he even named on the page (like with an iconic exclamation "Daredevil!"). Comparatively, the last page of Hulk #180 is much more iconic in that it is the first time that we ever see the character (Wolverine) and he's named.

[Matches_Malone]

It's certainly not as iconic as #180. No argument there. Which is why it will never reach that price point. No Wolvie premium on this one. Nevertheless it is a special page that deserves admiration. Historically and artistically speaking.

[jaybuck43]

Um I've got a bunch of red flags going off on that image. The crispness of the paper is surprising given its age (52 years old and it's THAT white?) Use of a Blue pencil for the 2 in page 2 when other pages of the book do not have blue pencil. And last but not least, the fact that there does not appear to be a single stray pencil mark on Page 2. Take a look of Page 6 which sold in 2008 for 26,000. TONS of pencil, paper aging, etc. So then was the piece cleaned (which cool, but why is that not disclosed if so?)

 

[Twanj]

TONS of pencil, paper aging, etc. So then was the piece cleaned (which cool, but why is that not disclosed if so?)

 

because...Pedigree doesn't disclose.

 

deceptive listings & reserves not met.

[dem1138]

I don't see this page as being as significantly iconic as is being touted. Its certainly a wonderful page (and the last image was used as the corner box and elsewhere) but its neither the first page that he appears in the book (he's on the splash and who is to say definitively whether the splash was stated from the cover or the cover was stated from the splash) nor is he even named on the page (like with an iconic exclamation "Daredevil!"). Comparatively, the last page of Hulk #180 is much more iconic in that it is the first time that we ever see the character (Wolverine) and he's named.

 

I doubt this would go higher than the Hulk 180 page- that said IMO this is as iconic as the 1st Wolvie. Wolvie just happens to be more popular.

 

Personally I prefer SA over BA, Everett over Trimpe, and DD over Wolvie so this page is fantastic to me.

 

I would disagree in the sense that I think the page is significant and actually is the first appearance of DD in the story/Marvel universe. The cover and splash (same image) are not part of continuity, so the page offered really is the first appearance. Obviously the cover and splash (if the DD image on the splash is art, not stat) would be more prized and worth more, but this page has a great claim to fame.

 

Where in my post above did I write anything about what I thought this page would sell for?

 

Also in regards to the whiteness, on CAF Doug wrote that this piece came from the Tony Christopher collection. Tony was known to have pages in his collection cleaned, so typically pages from his collection are bone white (I met him last year and he had a few pictures saved, which were awesome to see). In the past, no collectors that I'm aware of took issue with this.

[comiconxion]

That DD#1 page was up on eBay for a number of years listed at $100,000 with no takers. So, the most it should theoretically go for is that amount. I'm also interested to see if the reserve is far below that amount or simply the consignor has shifted from eBay to Pedigree. It would be good to see what this page should realistically go for.

 

[mtlevy]

I like this page an awful lot - always saw it in the eBay listing at $100K but that did not feel inexpensive - would be very interesting to see what it would garner in a Heritage auction