lou_fine Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Timely topic that made me do some investigating to cut through the hyperbole. Today a new Youtube video from Chuck. It's kind of funny given what Chuck says in the video (and the person apparently jump roping in the background). Chuck says they have no money and its led him to slash prices on all his moderns and lower grade bronze and older. Sadly from my research it's clear that, while on the right track, he's still over priced. As far as whether he is sitting on a hoard of high grade silver and early bronze. Put me in the disbelieve camp. In Tales from the Database written in 2003 he said he had 200k of the mile high 2 books left. Paying for his stores and all those employees for the last 13 years probably has already taken a big bite out of that. From watching the video, it's clear that Chuck's business model is based on quantity over quality and paying only a single penny (i.e. not even pennies) on the dollar for his books. After 40 long years and more than 10 million comic books later, it looks like Chuck still hasn't been able to figure out what collectors want. It's no surprise to me why he has millions of comics on hand, and yet no money at all. Although it's true that one person's garbage might be someone else's treasure, sometimes one person's garbage might just be everyone else's garbage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 His prices make some of the overpriced comic for sale on Craigslist seem like steals FoggyNelson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Let's shift gears for a moment. As I've stated, the primary reason I'm not concerned about Chuck's stash is I'm convinced that 10.98 million of his 11 million books are garbage (commodities as dictated by non-keys and/or common low grades). The far bigger issue is what will happen a generation from now when the baby boomers finish retiring and then start dying. I'm far far more concerned about 30 more major Golden/Silver Age collections of the Twin Cities / Savannah / Billy Wright variety coming to light over the next 5-10 years and crashing the values of pre-1966 books than I am of Chuck's passing on. What happens when/if Vinnie, Verzyl, The Dentist, Geppi, etc. all decide to exit in the same 5-year span? Multiply that by 20 for their best customers -- most of whom are probably in their late 50s right now? With Millennials and below not growing up reading comics like their predecessors did, who will support the values of the even mainstream Golden Age runs 20 years hence? Seriously - who will care about things like Batman # 10-30 when we've got AR goggles that give us instant entree to virtual reality integrated with the world around us 24/7? Chuck can destroy all 20 million of his books in a fire. I'll be the one sweating the 200 anonymous collectors -- retired plastic surgeons, investment bankers and the like -- who are each holding 500 prime GA & SA books. That's how the market will crash. Not by Chuck's 20 million-book pile, but by the 100,000 quality books quietly amassed by a discerning handful of baby boomers (Twin Cities-style). That market is limited by the number of big fish, you make good points and it can be a contributing factor to a decline in overall GA values. If what you say occurs COMBINED with Chuck dumping 11 million books on the market..well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) This is a wall of massive text?? but exactly how would this "dumping on the market" occur? 1)Is is just because he has a bunch of comics and he sells them cheap? so everyone has a copy? driving prices down? 2_He sells them expensive? but there are a million of 1 particular issue that there is just an over abundance of it? driving prices down If he has them all on his website, anyway, then are we saying this is for sure going to happen? If he sells them cheap 1) we get copies cheap If he sells them expensive as he is doing, 2) we get them cheap somewhere else.... How is this dumping going to occur?? He gives them away? flooding the market? the fact is there are per se a million of each comic out there anyway, how does one person/company owning its share mean anything to anyone call me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if you need to, just saying If were going to say that he owns everything and controls the market, then if that drives prices up so expensive that we can't buy anything unless we buy from him.... then wouldn't that mean what we already own we could sell for what he's selling them for and then buy the comics we need at the inflated prices, plus there are millions (im sure) of other comic owners in the world to think that he is "cornering" a market is ridiculous.... just like others buying CGC copies of a single comic and hoarding them If he owns all the "high grade" CGC and we just buy lower grade, how is that any different than it is now we just buy what we can afford, because any serious collector is going to think "his" prices are insane compared to yours---- Edited October 30, 2016 by ADAMANTIUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine48 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 His prices make some of the overpriced comic for sale on Craigslist seem like steals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) This is a wall of massive text?? but exactly how would this "dumping on the market" occur? 1)Is is just because he has a bunch of comics and he sells them cheap? so everyone has a copy? driving prices down? 2_He sells them expensive? but there are a million of 1 particular issue that there is just an over abundance of it? driving prices down If he has them all on his website, anyway, then are we saying this is for sure going to happen? If he sells them cheap 1) we get copies cheap If he sells them expensive as he is doing, 2) we get them cheap somewhere else.... How is this dumping going to occur?? He gives them away? flooding the market? the fact is there are per se a million of each comic out there anyway, how does one person/company owning its share mean anything to anyone call me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if you need to, just saying If were going to say that he owns everything and controls the market, then if that drives prices up so expensive that we can't buy anything unless we buy from him.... then wouldn't that mean what we already own we could sell for what he's selling them for and then buy the comics we need at the inflated prices, plus there are millions (im sure) of other comic owners in the world to think that he is "cornering" a market is ridiculous.... just like others buying CGC copies of a single comic and hoarding them If he owns all the "high grade" CGC and we just buy lower grade, how is that any different than it is now we just buy what we can afford, because any serious collector is going to think "his" prices are insane compared to yours---- The dumping could occur in the following ways : , 1- Chuck himself feels he can drive the competition out of business by flooding 5 million or 6 million comics super cheap. say 25 or 50 cent a piece knocking out a number of ebay and small time dealers .and wait it out with another 6 million in reserve and slowly raise prices. 2- Chuck decides to give it up and sell everything and according his video drinks Mint Tulips....wholesaling the 12 million books. 3- Chuck has nothing to do with it, either it is auctioned off or dumped by his survivors ..who care less about comic books and the comic book market.. it is Chuck who has the power, not me not you we don't the ability to burn 5 millions at 10 cents a piece and still have 7 million left over. He does not have a plan to dump high grade SA or SA..he takes the bottom out the market and top comes down. BINGO....who knows..but NOBODY buys 400,000 in a month when he owns almost 11 million without a plan.......and an endgame. Edited October 30, 2016 by Mmehdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Say he has 11 mil comics average print run of 250,000 and all his 11 mil are high grade copies that ruin the market thats forty-four comic key's that he's put into over saturation I mean I guess I see the point ANYTHING "COULD" HAPPEN- Chicken Little And we're basically figuring out how he could do it for him--- Sorry I didn't see your reply in time---if that is his plan and he can do it===it's called capitalism but that plan (or most of it) would take time----from what I've learned capitalism is a finicky business so.... I guess, Anything can happen?? time will tell---ADAMANTIUM Edited October 30, 2016 by ADAMANTIUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Say he has 11 mil comics average print run of 250,000 and all his 11 mil are high grade copies that ruin the market thats forty-four comic key's that he's put into over saturation I mean I guess I see the point ANYTHING "COULD" HAPPEN- Chicken Little And we're basically figuring out how he could do it for him--- The sky is not falling" and I am not chicken little. But, this guy is bragging about knocking out dealers and saying they cannot compete with his business model..he looks like he enjoys getting more control..I don't see this as hoarding, I see it as something else......I see a plan....I see a reason for this plan...just don't know the details but my alarm bells are going off when dealers sell 100K -120K comic books lots for 1500..and he complains that it cost more to drive them home......then show off his 5 million dollar pottery collection which he has not bothered to unbox..tells the visitors he is a drag queen and shows them the pictures...folks I am not making this up...it on the video link on this thead its all there and real..but think I know..he aint nobody's fool, this guy is gonna have the last laugh. Edited October 30, 2016 by Mmehdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperheart Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 This is a wall of massive text?? but exactly how would this "dumping on the market" occur? 1)Is is just because he has a bunch of comics and he sells them cheap? so everyone has a copy? driving prices down? 2_He sells them expensive? but there are a million of 1 particular issue that there is just an over abundance of it? driving prices down If he has them all on his website, anyway, then are we saying this is for sure going to happen? If he sells them cheap 1) we get copies cheap If he sells them expensive as he is doing, 2) we get them cheap somewhere else.... How is this dumping going to occur?? He gives them away? flooding the market? the fact is there are per se a million of each comic out there anyway, how does one person/company owning its share mean anything to anyone call me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if you need to, just saying If were going to say that he owns everything and controls the market, then if that drives prices up so expensive that we can't buy anything unless we buy from him.... then wouldn't that mean what we already own we could sell for what he's selling them for and then buy the comics we need at the inflated prices, plus there are millions (im sure) of other comic owners in the world to think that he is "cornering" a market is ridiculous.... just like others buying CGC copies of a single comic and hoarding them If he owns all the "high grade" CGC and we just buy lower grade, how is that any different than it is now we just buy what we can afford, because any serious collector is going to think "his" prices are insane compared to yours---- The dumping could occur in the following ways : , 1- Chuck himself feels he can drive the competition out of business by flooding 5 million or 6 million comics super cheap. say 25 or 50 cent a piece knocking out a number of ebay and small time dealers .and wait it out with another 6 million in reserve and slowly raise prices. 2- Chuck decides to give it up and sell everything and according his video drinks Mint Tulips....wholesaling the 12 million books. 3- Chuck has nothing to do with it, either it is auctioned off or dumped by his survivors ..who care less about comic books and the comic book market.. it is Chuck who has the power, not me not you we don't the ability to burn 5 millions at 10 cents a piece and still have 7 million left over. He does not have a plan to dump high grade SA or SA..he takes the bottom out the market and top comes down. BINGO....who knows..but NOBODY buys 400,000 in a month when he owns almost 11 million without a plan.......and an endgame. i guess those 11MM copies were carefully accumulated over a long period of time, sowing the seeds for his Machiavellian scheme of comic book domination. in reality, the guy has been on an drunken buying binge of garbage for 25 years. he's been on the verge of economic ruin the entire time, now is no different. endgame- insurance fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalPSI Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 If he has 11 million books, and say each book is a dollar bill, he should be worth 11 million right? I don't see that happening. I think his return is probably more realistically closer to 2 million than 11 million, if he decides to cash out before he croaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Say he has 11 mil comics average print run of 250,000 and all his 11 mil are high grade copies that ruin the market thats forty-four comic key's that he's put into over saturation I mean I guess I see the point ANYTHING "COULD" HAPPEN- Chicken Little And we're basically figuring out how he could do it for him--- The sky is not falling" and I am not chicken little. But, this guy is bragging about knocking out dealers and saying they cannot compete with his business model..he looks like he enjoys getting more control..I don't see this as hoarding, I see it as something else......I see a plan....I see a reason for this plan...just don't know the details but my alarm bells are going off when dealers sell 100K -120K comic books lots for 1500..and he complains that it cost more to drive them home...... I agree your not chicken little !!! No one is in this situation....I didn't mean to grind any gears... It's just well not much anyone can do....and I agree it is a cause for concern and I agree he has to have an endgame, but.... I don't know, I just don't want to "believe" he would do it I guess, I guess I'll have to be shaken out of shock the he would? takes guts to become the most disliked in an industry....(how I would take it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 This is a wall of massive text?? but exactly how would this "dumping on the market" occur? 1)Is is just because he has a bunch of comics and he sells them cheap? so everyone has a copy? driving prices down? 2_He sells them expensive? but there are a million of 1 particular issue that there is just an over abundance of it? driving prices down If he has them all on his website, anyway, then are we saying this is for sure going to happen? If he sells them cheap 1) we get copies cheap If he sells them expensive as he is doing, 2) we get them cheap somewhere else.... How is this dumping going to occur?? He gives them away? flooding the market? the fact is there are per se a million of each comic out there anyway, how does one person/company owning its share mean anything to anyone call me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if you need to, just saying If were going to say that he owns everything and controls the market, then if that drives prices up so expensive that we can't buy anything unless we buy from him.... then wouldn't that mean what we already own we could sell for what he's selling them for and then buy the comics we need at the inflated prices, plus there are millions (im sure) of other comic owners in the world to think that he is "cornering" a market is ridiculous.... just like others buying CGC copies of a single comic and hoarding them If he owns all the "high grade" CGC and we just buy lower grade, how is that any different than it is now we just buy what we can afford, because any serious collector is going to think "his" prices are insane compared to yours---- The dumping could occur in the following ways : , 1- Chuck himself feels he can drive the competition out of business by flooding 5 million or 6 million comics super cheap. say 25 or 50 cent a piece knocking out a number of ebay and small time dealers .and wait it out with another 6 million in reserve and slowly raise prices. 2- Chuck decides to give it up and sell everything and according his video drinks Mint Tulips....wholesaling the 12 million books. 3- Chuck has nothing to do with it, either it is auctioned off or dumped by his survivors ..who care less about comic books and the comic book market.. it is Chuck who has the power, not me not you we don't the ability to burn 5 millions at 10 cents a piece and still have 7 million left over. He does not have a plan to dump high grade SA or SA..he takes the bottom out the market and top comes down. BINGO....who knows..but NOBODY buys 400,000 in a month when he owns almost 11 million without a plan.......and an endgame. i guess those 11MM copies were carefully accumulated over a long period of time, sowing the seeds for his Machiavellian scheme of comic book domination. in reality, the guy has been on an drunken buying binge of garbage for 25 years. he's been on the verge of economic ruin the entire time, now is no different. endgame- insurance fire. WOW...#4 I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Just wanted to say one last time---- Nobody's chicken little I had already started a "new reply" before I saw someone had responded to my original post My Apologies (no chickens were harmed producing my posts) Edited October 30, 2016 by ADAMANTIUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalPSI Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Just wanted to say one last time---- Nobody's chicken little I had already started a "new reply" before I saw someone had responded to my original post My Apologies (no chickens were harmed producing my posts) Don't worry about it. Mitch has hit this part in the process and this is just the way it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01TheDude Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Let's shift gears for a moment. As I've stated, the primary reason I'm not concerned about Chuck's stash is I'm convinced that 10.98 million of his 11 million books are garbage (commodities as dictated by non-keys and/or common low grades). The far bigger issue is what will happen a generation from now when the baby boomers finish retiring and then start dying. I'm far far more concerned about 30 more major Golden/Silver Age collections of the Twin Cities / Savannah / Billy Wright variety coming to light over the next 5-10 years and crashing the values of pre-1966 books than I am of Chuck's passing on. What happens when/if Vinnie, Verzyl, The Dentist, Geppi, etc. all decide to exit in the same 5-year span? Multiply that by 20 for their best customers -- most of whom are probably in their late 50s right now? With Millennials and below not growing up reading comics like their predecessors did, who will support the values of the even mainstream Golden Age runs 20 years hence? Seriously - who will care about things like Batman # 10-30 when we've got AR goggles that give us instant entree to virtual reality integrated with the world around us 24/7? Chuck can destroy all 20 million of his books in a fire. I'll be the one sweating the 200 anonymous collectors -- retired plastic surgeons, investment bankers and the like -- who are each holding 500 prime GA & SA books. That's how the market will crash. Not by Chuck's 20 million-book pile, but by the 100,000 quality books quietly amassed by a discerning handful of baby boomers (Twin Cities-style). that seems like a legitimate situation to be concerned about. Sort of why I collect what I enjoy and like to have versus what is a "good investment". If I deem a book as too expensive, it remains a hole in whatever run I am working on. In years to come-- as I approach my own mortality -- finding the books a new home might be a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 If he has 11 million books, and say each book is a dollar bill, he should be worth 11 million right? All I know is that if he had kept only 11 of the right books from his original 22,000 Mile High find, it would be worth a lot more than the 11 million drek books he has sitting in that oversized and costly warehouse of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhwolfman Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) I'm scared. After he put up his 11 million books at a buck each, the smoke would clear and the 500 books he would sell would be devastating to the market. Edited October 30, 2016 by HHwolfman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grebal Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 that seems like a legitimate situation to be concerned about. Sort of why I collect what I enjoy and like to have versus what is a "good investment". If I deem a book as too expensive, it remains a hole in whatever run I am working on. In years to come-- as I approach my own mortality -- finding the books a new home might be a challenge. There was a long thread about this topic within the past few months. Lots of theories were put out there, and strong views expressed on both sides and in multiple other directions too. IMO, in short, I once felt similarly about fear of a huge drop in demand (or supply glut, whichever) when the boomers all bail, but I've seen a pretty strong replacement of the collectors of my generation (I'm at the end of it, born in 63) - at least 1 for 1. Smaller % of US pop. are comic collectors almost certainly, but we have a much larger pop., and there's lots more women collectors (did some selling on ebay so it's only anecdotal), Canadians and Brits buy US editions, and plenty of other countries do too, so I did a 180 since May when I came back to collecting after 8-year hiatus. I've only been to a few cons since May but noticed some kids here and there with some comics (not a ton to be sure). I know a few kids that collect in my limited # of acquaintances (which I've helped foster of course ; ) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FineCollector Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I'm scared. After he put up his 11 million books at a buck each, the smoke would clear and the 500 books he would sell would be devastating to the market. Exactly. Just because he's selling it doesn't mean anyone's buying it. How much of what he has is low to mid grade bronze and copper that no one wants? He can sell it as cheap as he wants, it'll either be donated as reading material, or sit around flea markets until sun and rain does away with it. The only thing a Mile High purge would do is drop the price of higher priced copper that came out of junk boxes. Sorry if you have a pile of money invested in X-Factor 6, but otherwise, no big loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I'm scared. After he put up his 11 million books at a buck each, the smoke would clear and the 500 books he would sell would be devastating to the market. Exactly. Just because he's selling it doesn't mean anyone's buying it. How much of what he has is low to mid grade bronze and copper that no one wants? He can sell it as cheap as he wants, it'll either be donated as reading material, or sit around flea markets until sun and rain does away with it. The only thing a Mile High purge would do is drop the price of higher priced copper that came out of junk boxes. Sorry if you have a pile of money invested in X-Factor 6, but otherwise, no big loss. So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
