James J Johnson Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 55 minutes ago, BWadeS said: That's what I kind of thought. ? Are his books so high grade, like the Western Penn, or Church pedigrees so noted and prized because of their "minty freshness" and snow-white pages that his books deserve Pedigree mention in the Annals of the hobby hall of fame? Or are the grades in his collection all over the place and the only reason for his name being immortalized being that he owned them? I'm curious because I've never associated the name "Fantuccio" with books at the top of the grade spectrum. This is really the first I hear of a pedigree bearing his nom de plume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_Wade_s Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I'm not familiar enough with all the copies in his pedigree collection to compare them to other pedigrees such as the ones you mentioned. Apparently CGC thought highly enough of his collection to include it with the other collections that they deemed worthy enough to designate pedigree status on their label. jimjum12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I picked up a few DC issues that weren't "high" grade but have great eye appeal. aardvark88, Larryw7, blue808 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_Wade_s Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Here's mine: Larryw7 and batman_fan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 7 hours ago, BWadeS said: Here's mine: That's some sweet colors! Not a day of aging it appears. With cover whites like that, I'm surprised the page designation isn't White! Could be it wasn't printed on white stock. A lot of folks don't realize that not all Marvels started out with white pages even when freshly printed because the bleaching process of the pulp wasn't adequate in some cases. DCs did tend to have better paper on a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattn792 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I really wanted to buy the 9.2 IH 181 from his collection when it went up on ComicLink last November, but it went for over 5 stacks. A premium at the time but possibly under market rate as of today. No regrets though, bought a 9.0/white instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: That's some sweet colors! Not a day of aging it appears. With cover whites like that, I'm surprised the page designation isn't White! Could be it wasn't printed on white stock. A lot of folks don't realize that not all Marvels started out with white pages even when freshly printed because the bleaching process of the pulp wasn't adequate in some cases. DCs did tend to have better paper on a whole. Not that issue. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 52 minutes ago, namisgr said: Not that issue. Hard to compare the two. The intensity, contrast, and brightness are set differently as the hues of the labels show. I think given the same default settings, the colors and whites of both books might actually be very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 hours ago, James J Johnson said: That's some sweet colors! Not a day of aging it appears. With cover whites like that, I'm surprised the page designation isn't White! Could be it wasn't printed on white stock. A lot of folks don't realize that not all Marvels started out with white pages even when freshly printed because the bleaching process of the pulp wasn't adequate in some cases. DCs did tend to have better paper on a whole. ..... another thing I've noticed about SA Marvels, the cover stock, especially with white books, seemed to hold up over time better after they made the switch from Eastern to World Color back in the later 60's. I've certainly never done a study.... it just seems that way to me. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, James J Johnson said: Hard to compare the two. The intensity, contrast, and brightness are set differently as the hues of the labels show. I think given the same default settings, the colors and whites of both books might actually be very similar. The point isn't to compare the two. The interior pages are graded white, so this issue is not an example of one printed on paper that wasn't white stock, and that would make it impossible to find white paged copies, as was speculated above. Having submitted the comic for grading, I can confirm that the pages of this non-Fantucchio copy are snow white. Edited May 28, 2018 by namisgr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, namisgr said: The point isn't to compare the two. The interior pages are graded white, so this issue is not an example of one printed on paper that wasn't white stock, and that would make it impossible to find white paged copies, as was speculated above. Having submitted the comic for grading, I can confirm that the pages of this non-Fantucchio copy are snow white. My exact words were: "A lot of folks don't realize that not all Marvels started out with white pages even when freshly printed because the bleaching process......yatta, yatta, yatta". Now that's a direct quote, copied and pasted. It's my only reference to "not all books being printed on the same color paper stock". I wasn't aware that anyone would take that to mean that I stated that this particular Avengers issue was one of the Marvels that was unavailable with white pages. My apologies for unintentionally confusing you, but I wasn't specific about which Marvels and if this was one of them. Edited May 28, 2018 by James J Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, James J Johnson said: Could be it wasn't printed on white stock. No confusion here. This comment is what my post addressed, and showed "no, it couldn't". I've only owned two comics from the Fantucchio pedigree and both are Bronze books, so I can't compare them directly to other SA pedigreed comics I've owned. The Bronze books are nice, but not quite in the same league as the Suscha News, Twin Cities, Rocky Mountain, or Massachusetts bronze I've seen. Edited May 28, 2018 by namisgr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, namisgr said: No confusion here. This comment is what my post addressed, and showed "no, it couldn't". I've only owned two comics from the Fantucchio pedigree and both are Bronze books, so I can't compare them directly to other SA pedigreed comics I've owned. The Bronze books are nice, but not quite in the same league as the Suscha News, Twin Cities, Rocky Mountain, or Massachusetts bronze I've seen. I would agree with you but given it is a recent collection, it is nice to see a large group of books like this come to market all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, batman_fan said: I would agree with you but given it is a recent collection, it is nice to see a large group of books like this come to market all at once. Completely agree. It's sobering to those of us who love SA pedigree collections that this is the only new one to emerge in the last five years. There may not be that many new original owner ones coming to market in the future, but rather 'secondary' collections accumulated by collectors and dealer/collectors over the decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Just now, namisgr said: Completely agree. It's sobering to those of us who love SA pedigree collections that this is the only new one to emerge in the last five years. There may not be that many new original owner ones coming to market in the future, but rather 'secondary' collections accumulated by collectors and dealer/collectors over the decades. I am amazed at some of the OO golden age collections that have shown up. I suspect we will see a few more silver age show up but it will be few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdonaldblake1 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 the FF1 from this collexn is amazing- so white and fresh looking it sold @ comiclink auction circa 2016 I think for "only" 130K I think- a total bargain @ todays ff1 prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 18 hours ago, jimjum12 said: ..... another thing I've noticed about SA Marvels, the cover stock, especially with white books, seemed to hold up over time better after they made the switch from Eastern to World Color back in the later 60's. I've certainly never done a study.... it just seems that way to me. GOD BLESS... They do. The cover stock was far superior from '67ish on when they made the switch. 3 hours ago, James J Johnson said: My exact words were: "A lot of folks don't realize that not all Marvels started out with white pages even when freshly printed because the bleaching process......yatta, yatta, yatta". Now that's a direct quote, copied and pasted. It's my only reference to "not all books being printed on the same color paper stock". I wasn't aware that anyone would take that to mean that I stated that this particular Avengers issue was one of the Marvels that was unavailable with white pages. My apologies for unintentionally confusing you, but I wasn't specific about which Marvels and if this was one of them. What bleaching process are you talking about? Covers or interiors? I am confused too. I thought it was generally accepted that SA DC's were tougher to find with white pages than SA Marvels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 7 hours ago, namisgr said: No confusion here. This comment is what my post addressed, and showed "no, it couldn't". I've only owned two comics from the Fantucchio pedigree and both are Bronze books, so I can't compare them directly to other SA pedigreed comics I've owned. The Bronze books are nice, but not quite in the same league as the Suscha News, Twin Cities, Rocky Mountain, or Massachusetts bronze I've seen. "Could be" meaning that it could possibly be one of the Marvels that wasn't printed on white stock, or the particular ream run through the printer was off-white to white rather than white for X number of copies that ream lasted during the larger than 1 ream print run. Do you really take, "could be" to mean "definitely"? Again, my intention wasn't to confuse you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) Again, no confusion here. It was printed on white paper stock. The page quality on the Fantucchio books overall confirms this. While there are a bunch of white pagers, there are also a fair number that graded off-white to white both SA and BA. As exemplified by the early sixties Batman comics posted above, some of the oldest books in the collection had paper that graded below ow/w. It's a sweet pedigree collection, but in terms of overall structure, quality of SA major keys, and paper preservation probably doesn't rank as one of the best. Edited May 29, 2018 by namisgr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 5 hours ago, VintageComics said: What bleaching process are you talking about? Covers or interiors? Interior paper. The manufacturing process before the paper even arrived at the printer. We were talking about the page color, or so I thought. Now I'm confused too. I feel like I woke up in a Mandela effect alternate time line where "quite possibly", "maybe", "could be", and other, what once were considered indefinite terms; words and adages referring to uncertainty now mean "positively". If that's the case, and "could be" is the new "absolutely without question" in this timeline, than I stand corrected. Everybody else is right about everything and I'm 100% wrong about everything. Maybe (which now means "absolutely without a doubt"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
