John G. Fantucchio pedigree 3 3

[chrisco37]

For a book this valuable, a new owner could fork over the 15 bucks for a reholdering.

 

Oh I get that Bob, but my question is how it ever left Sarasota like that. Surely there must be smaller wedges that you could put on both sides so the book is centred properly? :shrug:

 

Jim

Where's my T-shirt?

 

 

Perfect but you must stand to my left at all times.

 

You're getting predictable in your old age.

[batman_fan]

 

What are we arguing about ?

 

That the shrunken cover template doesn't really apply to the book you posted.

 

IMO, the books of this collection are similar to the template. Definitely not to the degree of the Cole Shave but they share the same characteristics. Not necessarily the fanning, as the fanning on these books are slight, but that upper right corner overhang thing. You disagree, fine. I see what I see, you see what you see. Others can judge for themselves.

 

It's an unbelievably gorgeous book, but I believe Bob is correct in his observation of the pressings:

 

Looks like it aligns with the template to me but I am assuming the template shows the approximate appearance and not an absolute appearance where if the book does not exactly, precisely have exactly the same measurements and proportional relationships as the template, it does not match the template.

[VintageComics]

Looks like it aligns with the template to me but I am assuming the template shows the approximate appearance and not an absolute appearance where if the book does not exactly, precisely have exactly the same measurements and proportional relationships as the template, it does not match the template.

 

Just in my own defense, and so people don't think I'm being a total dufus, when this template was originally posted Bob posted a pic of the ASM #10 CGC 9.8

 

In my opinion the #10 just looked like a regular SA Marvel and not representative of the shrunken cover books, hence my response.

 

 

 

 

 

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In addition, these were the other books posted early on in the thread. IMO. none of them (except for the ASM #2) look even remotely similar to the template of the shrunken cover books.

 

If any books were pressed, IMO it would be the ultra high grades and yet they don't seem to have shrunken covers - hence my response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Finally, the ASM #1 shows up and becomes the poster boy for the shrunken covers template and everyone says "I told you so!"

 

 

What I am noticing is that the earliest books (the ASM #1 and #2) seem to have shorter covers than any of the later books, but I also believe (and have mentioned this before in other areas of the forum) that mid way through 1963 Marvel changed it's publishing techniques (different paper, inks or both) so that early books (1961 to mid 1963) were made with one type of material and then mid 1963 or so and later, they were changed. And so the earliest books may age differently than the later books which may account for the differences.

 

Or you can just assume the ASM #1 and #2 were pressed and shrunken and the other books weren't, but that's not likely.

 

Since we have the majority of books shown so far not really displaying shrunken cover syndrome, it's unfair IMO to cherry pick certain books to suit your point, especially when it's possible that there are other possible reasons for the differences.

[originalisbest]

Looks like it aligns with the template to me but I am assuming the template shows the approximate appearance and not an absolute appearance where if the book does not exactly, precisely have exactly the same measurements and proportional relationships as the template, it does not match the template.

 

Just in my own defense, and so people don't think I'm being a total dufus, when this template was originally posted Bob posted a pic of the ASM #10 CGC 9.8

 

In my opinion the #10 just looked like a regular SA Marvel and not representative of the shrunken cover books, hence my response.

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------

 

In addition, these were the other books posted early on in the thread. IMO. none of them (except for the ASM #2) look even remotely similar to the template of the shrunken cover books.

 

If any books were pressed, IMO it would be the ultra high grades and yet they don't seem to have shrunken covers - hence my response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------

 

Finally, the ASM #1 shows up and becomes the poster boy for the shrunken covers template and everyone says "I told you so!"

 

 

What I am noticing is that the earliest books (the ASM #1 and #2) seem to have shorter covers than any of the later books, but I also believe (and have mentioned this before in other areas of the forum) that mid way through 1963 Marvel changed it's publishing techniques (different paper, inks or both) so that early books (1961 to mid 1963) were made with one type of material and then mid 1963 or so and later, they were changed. And so the earliest books may age differently than the later books which may account for the differences.

 

Or you can just assume the ASM #1 and #2 were pressed and shrunken and the other books weren't, but that's not likely.

 

Since we have the majority of books shown so far not really displaying shrunken cover syndrome, it's unfair IMO to cherry pick certain books to suit your point, especially when it's possible that there are other possible reasons for the differences.

 

Excellent post and time and trouble taken by Roy to point out that, since we certainly all agree all the early high grade spideys must have been pressed, the fact that several don't even come close to fitting the Schave "template" means that the pressing introduced no such "ah-ha" defects; meaning the asm #1 may well have had its interior pages gently poking out prior to any pressing, lending credence to the opinion that it's irresponsible to point at a given characteristic of a book and think pressing caused it, unless you have firsthand knowledge of the before and after appearance of a book that's been pressed. Unless one has their head buried in the sand and think the (we can presume it's been pressed) asm #6 in any way "reveals" a cover shift that seems to be the latest thing anti-pressers try to hang their hat on, one would have to admit it looks an awful lot like the cover appearance of the ff pacific coast that namisgr holds up as an exemplar of "unpressed." So the "validation" that bomber-bob gets from that is somewhat - invalid?

 

Regardless, the butt hurt over pressing will live on. Long may it wave. Hi out there, redhook and masterchief.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

Since we have the majority of books shown so far not really displaying shrunken cover syndrome, it's unfair IMO to cherry pick certain books to suit your point, especially when it's possible that there are other possible reasons for the differences.

 

Roy, my only point was to say, IMO, the books from this collection were pressed. Period.

I never claimed the books were 'damaged' as you alleged. I never showed any pics of a Cole Shave book for comparison. I only used the template, which IMO, is a template for the way today's pressed comics generally look. This is a very desirable collection, unlike the Cole Shave freak show. The question whether these books were pressed or not was raised and I gave my opinion. Please quit trying to make me look like a person with an agenda.

[VintageComics]

 

Since we have the majority of books shown so far not really displaying shrunken cover syndrome, it's unfair IMO to cherry pick certain books to suit your point, especially when it's possible that there are other possible reasons for the differences.

 

Roy, my only point was to say, IMO, the books from this collection were pressed. Period.

I never claimed the books were 'damaged' as you alleged. I never showed any pics of a Cole Shave book for comparison. I only used the template, which IMO, is a template for the way today's pressed comics generally look. This is a very desirable collection, unlike the Cole Shave freak show. The question whether these books were pressed or not was raised and I gave my opinion. Please quit trying to make me look like a person with an agenda.

 

If you'd simply said "the books were likely pressed" I'd have agreed with you and there wouldn't be 3 pages of discussion, but that isn't what you did. You posted the shrunken cover template. Why? I have no idea.

 

So what we're disagreeing on is how you said they were pressed.

 

In my opinion, the shrunken cover template had no business in this thread in relation to the new Pedigree as it did nothing but mar the collection to the general public with unfounded opinions.

 

That's why I started my side of the discussion.

 

Now that it's been cleared up there's nothing to argue about.

 

Although if anyone wants to know if the books were actually pressed I suppose they can ask Comiclink.

 

[jimjum12]

.....Okay...... one thing I haven't seen mentioned are pressed books that DON'T look like Cole Schave examples...... which are the vast majority of pressed books. I've probably had 40 or 50 books pressed and out of those only one book resembled the template afterwards....and that was because it looked that way to begin with. Early SA books do sometimes have right edges sticking out..... otherwise people wouldn't have been seeking out the more perfect examples since the 60's..... that's where the whole notion of QP began..... way before, I might add, pressing came into vogue. There is no quick easy rule of thumb with vintage books..... there are many printing variations of a single issue.... not like today's books ( 1975 on.....?) were printing had evolved and most copies are optimal. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited December 31, 2016 by jimjum12

[Bomber-Bob]

 

If you'd simply said "the books were likely pressed" I'd have agreed with you and there wouldn't be 3 pages of discussion, but that isn't what you did. You posted the shrunken cover template. Why? I have no idea.

 

 

Worthy to mention: I looked at the comments and reactions after my original post with the template. A couple of pages of nada, completely ignored while other conversations were introduced. You then came in challenging my post and then the '3 pages of discussion' followed. Also worthy to mention: I, along with others, only chimed in on the pressing after you challenged the original Boardie that asked the question. You have a way of attacking people's opinions with a 'higher moral ground' type of attitude that forces people to defend themselves. I hate that I fell for the bait and continued this discussion so long. I challenge you, Roy, to let my final comment be just that, final. Let's end this nonsense discussion. This is an amazing collection of books. I hope to have some in my collection. I do need an upgrade on my ASM #1.....

[VintageComics]

Bob, I may have missed other posts and my reply wasn't meant to be personal or to single you out for any particular reason other than I was replying to your post.

 

I think it's safe to say we sort of understand each other.

 

Still friends?

[Bomber-Bob]

Bob, I may have missed other posts and my reply wasn't meant to be personal or to single you out for any particular reason other than I was replying to your post.

 

I think it's safe to say we sort of understand each other.

 

Still friends?

 

Still friends. Remember, I'm married to a Virgo. I am used used to arguing, losing, and not holding a grudge. HaHa .

[Dark Knight]

Like Roy said previously, only way to get to the bottom of this is to ask C-link if the collection was pressed or not. It is still difficult for me to tell whether a press work was done to a book, sometimes it is impossible to truly know right? But hey, whether a book was pressed or still in its original state, i am fine with it.

[Drummy]

My guess is that any books from this pedigree that had pressable defects were pressed, the others perhaps left alone -- but I probably couldn't tell you which were which given the scans alone. Now that pressing is an "accepted" and encouraged form of restoration, why wouldn't books with pressable defects in a collection like this get the once-over? It makes no sense that they wouldn't since there's zero disincentive to pressing unless you fear that a bad press job would somehow damage the book or its QP.

 

Dan

[batman_fan]

My guess is that any books from this pedigree that had pressable defects were pressed, the others perhaps left alone -- but I probably couldn't tell you which were which given the scans alone. Now that pressing is an "accepted" and encouraged form of restoration, why wouldn't books with pressable defects in a collection like this get the once-over? It makes no sense that they wouldn't since there's zero disincentive to pressing unless you fear that a bad press job would somehow damage the book or its QP.

 

Dan

 

 

Well said. CLINK would be doing the sellers a huge disservice by not recommending going that route.

[Bomber-Bob]

Like Roy said previously, only way to get to the bottom of this is to ask C-link if the collection was pressed or not. It is still difficult for me to tell whether a press work was done to a book, sometimes it is impossible to truly know right? But hey, whether a book was pressed or still in its original state, i am fine with it.

 

Paging Josh. I am assuming the high end stuff was pressed but it would be interesting to know if the 'ordinary' stuff was pressed, things like 2nd tier and DC (HaHa). Only pressing the high end stuff, IMO, benefits the auction house, the buyer, and the seller. Knowing some books may not be pressed will be appealing to both flippers and collectors, thus driving up prices on otherwise ordinary books. When I see collections brought to market that are stated as Pressed, I always think to myself they are missing an opportunity. The smart move is to be selective, leave a little potential and it will actually help prices.

[Bomber-Bob]

My guess is that any books from this pedigree that had pressable defects were pressed, the others perhaps left alone -- but I probably couldn't tell you which were which given the scans alone. Now that pressing is an "accepted" and encouraged form of restoration, why wouldn't books with pressable defects in a collection like this get the once-over? It makes no sense that they wouldn't since there's zero disincentive to pressing unless you fear that a bad press job would somehow damage the book or its QP.

 

Dan

 

 

Well said. CLINK would be doing the sellers a huge disservice by not recommending going that route.

 

Not necessarily. See my post above. IMO, you press the high end stuff and leave the 'ordinary' stuff with potential. Leaving some potential will increase prices. It's really the smarter play.

[jimjum12]

My guess is that any books from this pedigree that had pressable defects were pressed, the others perhaps left alone -- but I probably couldn't tell you which were which given the scans alone. Now that pressing is an "accepted" and encouraged form of restoration, why wouldn't books with pressable defects in a collection like this get the once-over? It makes no sense that they wouldn't since there's zero disincentive to pressing unless you fear that a bad press job would somehow damage the book or its QP.

 

Dan

 

 

Well said. CLINK would be doing the sellers a huge disservice by not recommending going that route.

 

Not necessarily. See my post above. IMO, you press the high end stuff and leave the 'ordinary' stuff with potential. Leaving some potential will increase prices. It's really the smarter play.

 

..... plus the Auction house wants their 10% today..... not 6 months from now.... and I would imagine the consignor does too. I've bought many OO books at auction.....almost all have had pressable defects. There's also a question of liability, with loss in transit and damage to the items, either through additional shipping or as a result from pressing. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Bomber-Bob]

Good point, time = money and estate sales are usually very anxious for the quick turnaround.

Without naming names, I remember a prominent dealer bringing a newly slabbed collection to a convention, all unpressed, but priced at full Market. The feeding frenzy from other dealers was so great they drew numbers for rights to pick first in a box of their choice. Everyone was happy. The dealer got his money up front, before the convention even opened, and the dealers were resubbing onsite !

Edited December 31, 2016 by bomber-bob

[jimjum12]

North Coast Nostalgia ? ................ yeah, an Auction house's cut could fund quite a few cash advances for more consignments.....their share could double or triple during the time a large collection of books made it through the pressing pipeline. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Logan510]

Good point, time = money and estate sales are usually very anxious for the quick turnaround.

Without naming names, I remember a prominent dealer bringing a newly slabbed collection to a convention, all unpressed, but priced at full Market. The feeding frenzy from other dealers was so great they drew numbers for rights to pick first in a box of their choice. Everyone was happy. The dealer got his money up front, before the convention even opened, and the dealers were resubbing onsite !

 

Why not name names? It wasn't a secret when it happened and was talked about quite a bit here

[Logan510]

North Coast Nostalgia ? ................ yeah, an Auction house's cut could fund quite a few cash advances for more consignments.....their share could double or triple during the time a large collection of books made it through the pressing pipeline. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

You're too quick