CGC et al To Aggressively Defend Against Lawsuit Filed In Pennsylvania 11 11

[kimik]

How do these restored books hold up long term? I would imagine that there would be some degradation over time that would make the resto noticeable without retouches.

[Bronty]

I don't know the answer, but if we're speculating I would be more worried that the original materials degrade faster than the restoration materials, as opposed to vice versa.

[kimik]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:18 AM, Bronty said:

I don't know the answer, but if we're speculating I would be more worried that the original materials degrade faster than the restoration materials, as opposed to vice versa.

Agreed. So it would be noticeable where the work was done over time.

I am curious to see how these books look/feel in person. The few heavily restored books I have handled over the years have had some telltale signs when you inspected them closely (and a couple were so obvious I felt bad for the owners who paid for he work  ) which made them easy to spot. If it is more difficult to determine by graders now then CGC should invest in tech to screen every higher value book for it.

[VintageComics]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:16 AM, kimik said:

How do these restored books hold up long term? I would imagine that there would be some degradation over time that would make the resto noticeable without retouches.

Like regular comics, most people don't need to worry about anything in their own lifetimes. People generally get wound up about things they know very little about. 

I remember the uproar here about pressing that even devolved into physical fights at cons 15 years ago. It was ridiculous, and all because people thought books were getting "ruined" but they had little knowledge of how books were printed. Books when printed endure much worse things than a proper pressing.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:42 AM, VintageComics said:

I remember the uproar here about pressing that even devolved into physical fights at cons 15 years ago

Do tell 

[kimik]

With advances in optical sensors and non-destructive testing methods, it should be relatively easy to put together a system to detect the franken-books and less restored submissions. The only question is at what book value level do you want to implement it.

[MatterEaterLad]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:47 AM, VintageComics said:

Many books with a lot of resto feel 'off' so that's not a judge of anything really, and I say this because most people won't realize this as they don't handle many heavily restored books. 

I'm sure everyone's later work is better than their early work.

I've had old resto removed and redone with better techniques and materials. I don't know who did the original work, but it was probably Matt or Susan Cicconi, 25 years ago. 

When the dust finally settles and people learn how the Myers did it, every restorationist will add their technique to their bag of tricks. And once CGC knows what to look for, I'm certain they'll be able to detect. 

[fishbone]

On 12/6/2023 at 10:50 AM, VintageComics said:

A lot of people get hyped with the hate and run with it but in truth, it's a brilliant business model strictly from an economics point of view.

That model is used in many industries, the movie industry for example. 

Rather than pay an actor a wage, they're given a percentage of the profits of the film so they bet all of their financial reward on the success of the product. Jack Nicholson did it famously in Batman in 1989, but now movie houses like Blumhouse produce all of their movies using this formula. It's brilliant because it keeps costs down. 

great analogy

[Aman619]

Yeah, but it was shortsighted. Batman was such a big hit that they ended up giving Jack a lot more than if they gave him the 25M that was the current highest pay level.

 

EDIT.  memory is a beeyatch.  Here’s what his deal was :  6M plus share of profits and merchandizing.  Added up to 50M+ kept him courtside seats for a lifetime.
 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Aman619

[comicwiz]

On 12/6/2023 at 1:13 PM, fishbone said:

great analogy

Didn't work so great for Scarlett Johansson. And scaling grading fees to value is fraught with issues. If the grader can guarantee TAT's and the customer agrees, then within reason of course. The whole scandal with Marx (sub-company for PSA) is that they were getting their cards back too late, and the market changed enough for them to be taking a big hit on their subs. So they decided not to pay PSA. When a grader uses a peak price to value the item to determine the fee based on percentage, it's imperative the item doesn't take 6 months to a year to return, and that value isn't 30-50% less than the value arrived at by the grader 6 months to a year earlier.

Edited December 6, 2023 by comicwiz

[joeypost]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:18 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

I'm sure everyone's later work is better than their early work.

I've had old resto removed and redone with better techniques and materials. I don't know who did the original work, but it was probably Matt or Susan Cicconi, 25 years ago. 

When the dust finally settles and people learn how the Myers did it, every restorationist will add their technique to their bag of tricks. And once CGC knows what to look for, I'm certain they'll be able to detect. 

When I meant "off" it was in comparison to other restored books. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:44 PM, comicwiz said:

On 12/6/2023 at 1:13 PM, fishbone said:

great analogy

Didn't work so great for Scarlett Johansson. And scaling grading fees to value is fraught with issues. If the grader can guarantee TAT's and the customer agrees, then within reason of course. The whole scandal with Marx (sub-company for PSA) is that they were getting their cards back too late, and the market changed enough for them to be taking a big hit on their subs. So they decided not to pay PSA. When a grader uses a peak price to value the item to determine the fee based on percentage, it's imperative the item doesn't take 6 months to a year to return, and that value isn't 30-50% less than the value arrived at by the grader 6 months to a year earlier.

Big risk, big reward. 

Scottie Pippen was a conservative businessman and he locked in a tiny salary for a long term contract that he knew he could count on. It came back to bite him in the rump and created a lot of bitterness because when they started winning trophies, he was still getting his tiny salary....but it was HIS decision. Nobody else's. He didn't trust in his own skill enough to take the risk and that's all on him. 

Risk is one of those things that separates the greats from the not-so-greats. People who are confident in their abilities are willing to take that challenge and step up to it.

Wasn't Scarlett Johansson's situation slightly different in that they wanted to stream something during the pandemic that was originally supposed to be a theatrical release, or something like that?

You can't win every time. If you did, everyone would be doing it and it wouldn't be a win anymore.  

Edited December 6, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:44 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Do tell 

Oh, it wasn't me. I'm a love, not a fighter but I'd make an exception for you. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/6/2023 at 4:46 PM, VintageComics said:

Oh, it wasn't me. I'm a love, not a fighter but I'd make an exception for you. 

[comicwiz]

On 12/6/2023 at 4:43 PM, VintageComics said:

Big risk, big reward. 

Scottie Pippen was a conservative businessman and he locked in a tiny salary for a long term contract that he knew he could count on. It came back to bite him in the rump and created a lot of bitterness because when they started winning trophies, he was still getting his tiny salary....but it was HIS decision. Nobody else's. He didn't trust in his own skill enough to take the risk and that's all on him. 

Risk is one of those things that separates the greats from the not-so-greats. People who are confident in their abilities are willing to take that challenge and step up to it.

Wasn't Scarlett Johansson's situation slightly different in that they wanted to stream something during the pandemic that was originally supposed to be a theatrical release, or something like that?

You can't win every time. If you did, everyone would be doing it and it wouldn't be a win anymore.  

Scarlett Johansson's contract was structured to pay $40M on anticipated $1.2B box office. Disney released Black Widow simultaneously at theaters and Disney+, which broke the contract terms. She eventually got paid through a settlement, but I'm not sure I agree that the risk in that situation was something she ever agreed to accept.

I don't think your opinion of why Pippen was underpayed is accurate to what really happened and why it went on. Even trying to be neutral, Jerry Krause chose to stretch out his contract terms because it benefited the team. The dynamics between the two didn't help the situation. But anyone, including the team, will tell you that if Pippen did anything that could be construed as "rushing in" it was trying to get his original rookie term extension before the 4 year extension for 2 more years (for 6 total) came up because Pippen was caring for a large family, with his brother and father being disabled. Everything afterward, including Kukoc not signing, and renegotiating Pippen's contract term period for 8 rather than 5 years was a tactic used by Krause to deliberately underpay him. No sense even debating this, because it was a very different time, nothing like the rookie contract, extension, or renegotiation would ever be allowed in today's NBA. The Bulls did it because they could, and the reward from underpaying him was theirs alone.

Edited December 7, 2023 by comicwiz

[VintageComics]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:38 PM, comicwiz said:

Scarlett Johansson's contract was structured to pay $40M on anticipated $1.2B box office. Disney released Black Widow simultaneously at theaters and Disney+, which broke the contract terms. She eventually got paid through a settlement, but I'm not sure I agree that the risk in that situation was something she ever agreed to accept.

I don't think a breach of contract is the same as the risk we were talking about, where someone bets on themselves.

People that mitigate risks in normal business situations operate under the common understanding that the rules won't be breached.

What Disney did was fraudulent. 

Now, in high hazard businesses (like going to warm say) where the outcome is truly unpredictable, that would be understood.

Looks like Disney didn't expect a pandemic to affect the release and paid the price for it.

 

[AJD]

And just like that another thread goes off topic to talk about Hollywood dynamics.

[VintageComics]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:49 PM, AJD said:

And just like that another thread goes off topic to talk about Hollywood dynamics.

What is it with everyone's obsession to police every discussion with laser focus? The fun on this forum used to be the lively discussion. 

Is there some sort of mind drug that everyone's been exposed to that I'm immune to?

It's like grandma forbidding discussion of Thanksgiving around the Christmas table while everyone is discussing turkey. Have a little spiked egg nog, grandma. 

It's was a small but relevant tangent that started with the discussion about how the Meyers made their business profitable by risking the cost of the restoration against future auction profits. That model was met with resistance by a few so I tried to show that other industries use the same model of risk / reward and that it wasn't just the Meyers. 

Conversations always meander a bit on the internet and then return back on topic. 

 

 

[Cat]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:14 PM, VintageComics said:

What is it with everyone's obsession to police every discussion with laser focus? The fun on this forum used to be the lively discussion. 

Is there some sort of mind drug that everyone's been exposed to that I'm immune to?

It's like grandma forbidding discussion of Thanksgiving around the Christmas table while everyone is discussing turkey. Have a little spiked egg nog, grandma. 

It's was a small but relevant tangent that started with the discussion about how the Meyers made their business profitable by risking the cost of the restoration against future auction profits. That model was met with resistance by a few so I tried to show that other industries use the same model of risk / reward and that it wasn't just the Meyers. 

Conversations always meander a bit on the internet and then return back on topic. 

 

 

Coming from the cop that almost policed a promising and enjoyable newish (you are newish, sorry BA! :)) member off the forum, I'd say you're definitely the pot calling the kettle black. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 12/7/2023 at 4:49 AM, AJD said:

And just like that another thread goes off topic to talk about Hollywood dynamics.

Careful Andy. If you keep stirring the pot like this, the mods will give you a custom title and start chatting with you. Oh, and by the way, CGC are currently unable to increase the gallery image limit as they are too busy defending lawsuits.