General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Aces]

What's going on?

Was there a fool in the modern forum selling selling junk with the promise of a chase in one box?

This is why we can't have nice things.

[comicalgems]

[Architecht]

Rules are rules so no more YouTube drawings.

 

I'm just curious why there's such a disdain for these types of listings. Did I miss some major drama?

I still think your Mystery Box sale would be allowed so why don't you let the Mods sort that out. They said they'd handle it on a case by case situation. I feel like your Mystery Boxes are incentive enough (I'll tell you when I get mine ), but I don't see anything wrong with in addition to the boxes having random books thrown in like you have done. Arch said specifically that they'd handle it on a case by case situation and *poofed* one or more that were active. They did NOT *poof* your thread.

 

I say try it out. If they *poof* it, we'll have a definitive answer.

 

I think it's all about the contents of the boxes. You were very specific in that "there will be a NM #98 and Saga #1" etc. etc. I think people can absolutely show the contents of their boxes. You don't know what you get, but everything is there that you COULD get. Having a big ticket book randomly placed on top - it's still very grey.

 

 

This sale falls into the "among the buyers there will be a lucky winner" camp. Out.

 

It doesn't matter if everyone else got full value plus more, and the lucky winner really made out. The reason is that it then becomes a debate whether there was real full value or not, and because even a simple give away that has nothing to do with compensating buyers who paid too much for something with the chance of winning much more, still requires things like no purchase necessary.

 

If you'd like to sell ten mystery boxes, and then give away from slab to the lucky winner out of those ten people AND whoever raises their hand and wants in on the drawing for free, then you could maybe do that. But why would you? And frankly, if what you're selling is so good anyway, why would you need to?

 

No "lucky winners" that had to pay you money to be lucky please.

[Architecht]

What is your opinion of comicalgems sale?

 

Mystery Box or Raffle?

 

LINK

 

According to Arch's post, this is not a raffle, right?

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

In comicalgem's sale, the purchaser is assured to receive comics that have a higher value than the amount paid. To me, this seems to be fine, in regards to what I bolded in the quote from Architect.

 

If he had set it up differently (say, boxes are $150 each, 9 will will have FMV of $100 and one will have a Walking Dead #1), then that would be a raffle.

 

My birthday is at the end of the month which always puts me in a wacky giving mood. So here's what I'm offering: Ten Mystery Boxes at $150 shipped each. If all ten sell I'll have a drawing where 10th name drawn receives X-Factor 6 CGC 9.8.

 

What else will be in the boxes? It's a Mystery! However be assured your box's contents will be worth what you paid. I have comics, TPBs, and more that I'll put into these boxes.

 

Check my feedback thread below and you will see previous buyers all happy with their boxes. Thread crapping allowed and PMs welcomed.

 

No Pro/HOS. International shipping must be calculated.

 

If this gets off the ground quickly I'll likely add another ten with an even more awesome 2nd Grand Prize added. We'll see how it goes.

 

All drawings will be recorded and put on YouTube then linked here.

 

Lets have some fun!

 

Read the second half of Arch's post.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

 

Second half is pretty clear, "if it smells" "then it's out."

 

But wasn't Arch stating that THAT is how they've been handling it. Meaning that comicalgems Mystery Box sales thread was perfectly fine and NOT a raffle. Otherwise it would have been "out" and *poofed* just like a few other recent ones.

 

The survival of a thread is not proof of its acceptability. It just means it may or may not have been noticed / moderated.

[Green]

Rules are rules so no more YouTube drawings.

 

I'm just curious why there's such a disdain for these types of listings. Did I miss some major drama?

I still think your Mystery Box sale would be allowed so why don't you let the Mods sort that out. They said they'd handle it on a case by case situation. I feel like your Mystery Boxes are incentive enough (I'll tell you when I get mine ), but I don't see anything wrong with in addition to the boxes having random books thrown in like you have done. Arch said specifically that they'd handle it on a case by case situation and *poofed* one or more that were active. They did NOT *poof* your thread.

 

I say try it out. If they *poof* it, we'll have a definitive answer.

 

I think it's all about the contents of the boxes. You were very specific in that "there will be a NM #98 and Saga #1" etc. etc. I think people can absolutely show the contents of their boxes. You don't know what you get, but everything is there that you COULD get. Having a big ticket book randomly placed on top - it's still very grey.

 

 

This sale falls into the "among the buyers there will be a lucky winner" camp. Out.

 

It doesn't matter if everyone else got full value plus more, and the lucky winner really made out. The reason is that it then becomes a debate whether there was real full value or not, and because even a simple give away that has nothing to do with compensating buyers who paid too much for something with the chance of winning much more, still requires things like no purchase necessary.

 

If you'd like to sell ten mystery boxes, and then give away from slab to the lucky winner out of those ten people AND whoever raises their hand and wants in on the drawing for free, then you could maybe do that. But why would you? And frankly, if what you're selling is so good anyway, why would you need to?

 

No "lucky winners" that had to pay you money to be lucky please.

 

What if it was simply stated that i am making up boxes with a guaranteed FMV of $200-$500 and they are $100 each. Would this be acceptable?

[HarveySwick]

Thank you for the clarification Arch.

[Iceman399]

What is your opinion of comicalgems sale?

 

Mystery Box or Raffle?

 

LINK

 

According to Arch's post, this is not a raffle, right?

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

In comicalgem's sale, the purchaser is assured to receive comics that have a higher value than the amount paid. To me, this seems to be fine, in regards to what I bolded in the quote from Architect.

 

If he had set it up differently (say, boxes are $150 each, 9 will will have FMV of $100 and one will have a Walking Dead #1), then that would be a raffle.

 

My birthday is at the end of the month which always puts me in a wacky giving mood. So here's what I'm offering: Ten Mystery Boxes at $150 shipped each. If all ten sell I'll have a drawing where 10th name drawn receives X-Factor 6 CGC 9.8.

 

What else will be in the boxes? It's a Mystery! However be assured your box's contents will be worth what you paid. I have comics, TPBs, and more that I'll put into these boxes.

 

Check my feedback thread below and you will see previous buyers all happy with their boxes. Thread crapping allowed and PMs welcomed.

 

No Pro/HOS. International shipping must be calculated.

 

If this gets off the ground quickly I'll likely add another ten with an even more awesome 2nd Grand Prize added. We'll see how it goes.

 

All drawings will be recorded and put on YouTube then linked here.

 

Lets have some fun!

 

Read the second half of Arch's post.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

 

Second half is pretty clear, "if it smells" "then it's out."

 

But wasn't Arch stating that THAT is how they've been handling it. Meaning that comicalgems Mystery Box sales thread was perfectly fine and NOT a raffle. Otherwise it would have been "out" and *poofed* just like a few other recent ones.

 

 

The survival of a thread is not proof of its acceptability. It just means it may or may not have been noticed / moderated.

 

Throw out the duck analogy again!

[comix4fun]

What is your opinion of comicalgems sale?

 

Mystery Box or Raffle?

 

LINK

 

According to Arch's post, this is not a raffle, right?

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

In comicalgem's sale, the purchaser is assured to receive comics that have a higher value than the amount paid. To me, this seems to be fine, in regards to what I bolded in the quote from Architect.

 

If he had set it up differently (say, boxes are $150 each, 9 will will have FMV of $100 and one will have a Walking Dead #1), then that would be a raffle.

 

My birthday is at the end of the month which always puts me in a wacky giving mood. So here's what I'm offering: Ten Mystery Boxes at $150 shipped each. If all ten sell I'll have a drawing where 10th name drawn receives X-Factor 6 CGC 9.8.

 

What else will be in the boxes? It's a Mystery! However be assured your box's contents will be worth what you paid. I have comics, TPBs, and more that I'll put into these boxes.

 

Check my feedback thread below and you will see previous buyers all happy with their boxes. Thread crapping allowed and PMs welcomed.

 

No Pro/HOS. International shipping must be calculated.

 

If this gets off the ground quickly I'll likely add another ten with an even more awesome 2nd Grand Prize added. We'll see how it goes.

 

All drawings will be recorded and put on YouTube then linked here.

 

Lets have some fun!

 

Read the second half of Arch's post.

 

 

Just a reminder - raffles are not allowed.

 

If you are spending more money on something than it's worth in the hopes that you will be the advertised "lucky winner" to get the secret package that is instead worth more money than you paid, then you are gambling. Raffles / gambling aren't allowed.

 

Even with a basic give away, (e.g. give you a shot at a prize when you buy their stuff) companies are usually held to a "no purchase necessary" requirement by law. So people can "sign up to win" even if they buy nothing.

 

Frankly, I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of the laws regarding this kind of thing so the actual moderation standard will be something like "if it smells like a raffle / game of chance / lucky few give away, then it's out."

 

 

Second half is pretty clear, "if it smells" "then it's out."

 

But wasn't Arch stating that THAT is how they've been handling it. Meaning that comicalgems Mystery Box sales thread was perfectly fine and NOT a raffle. Otherwise it would have been "out" and *poofed* just like a few other recent ones.

 

The survival of a thread is not proof of its acceptability. It just means it may or may not have been noticed / moderated.

 

Uh-Oh!!!

 

 

I THINK ARCH NOTICED US!!!

[CAHokie]

Swick certainly got noticed.

[ItsJustRyan]

Arch spoke.... to US?!

[Architecht]

What if it was simply stated that i am making up boxes with a guaranteed FMV of $200-$500 and they are $100 each. Would this be acceptable?

 

Nope. "Gosh I hope I am the lucky winner who gets the $500 box!"

 

Nope.

[comicalgems]

Rules are rules so no more YouTube drawings.

 

I'm just curious why there's such a disdain for these types of listings. Did I miss some major drama?

I still think your Mystery Box sale would be allowed so why don't you let the Mods sort that out. They said they'd handle it on a case by case situation. I feel like your Mystery Boxes are incentive enough (I'll tell you when I get mine ), but I don't see anything wrong with in addition to the boxes having random books thrown in like you have done. Arch said specifically that they'd handle it on a case by case situation and *poofed* one or more that were active. They did NOT *poof* your thread.

 

I say try it out. If they *poof* it, we'll have a definitive answer.

 

I think it's all about the contents of the boxes. You were very specific in that "there will be a NM #98 and Saga #1" etc. etc. I think people can absolutely show the contents of their boxes. You don't know what you get, but everything is there that you COULD get. Having a big ticket book randomly placed on top - it's still very grey.

 

 

This sale falls into the "among the buyers there will be a lucky winner" camp. Out.

 

It doesn't matter if everyone else got full value plus more, and the lucky winner really made out. The reason is that it then becomes a debate whether there was real full value or not, and because even a simple give away that has nothing to do with compensating buyers who paid too much for something with the chance of winning much more, still requires things like no purchase necessary.

 

If you'd like to sell ten mystery boxes, and then give away from slab to the lucky winner out of those ten people AND whoever raises their hand and wants in on the drawing for free, then you could maybe do that. But why would you? And frankly, if what you're selling is so good anyway, why would you need to?

 

No "lucky winners" that had to pay you money to be lucky please.

 

PM sent

 

 

[HarveySwick]

Swick certainly got noticed.

[Architecht]

Throw out the duck analogy again!

 

You quackin', hombre?

[Jimmy Linguini]

Oh man Arch showed up! UNREAL

[Shadow Images]

Quick question I thought auction threads had to have a BIN. am I wrong?

[revat]

Rules are rules so no more YouTube drawings.

 

I'm just curious why there's such a disdain for these types of listings. Did I miss some major drama?

I still think your Mystery Box sale would be allowed so why don't you let the Mods sort that out. They said they'd handle it on a case by case situation. I feel like your Mystery Boxes are incentive enough (I'll tell you when I get mine ), but I don't see anything wrong with in addition to the boxes having random books thrown in like you have done. Arch said specifically that they'd handle it on a case by case situation and *poofed* one or more that were active. They did NOT *poof* your thread.

 

I say try it out. If they *poof* it, we'll have a definitive answer.

 

I think it's all about the contents of the boxes. You were very specific in that "there will be a NM #98 and Saga #1" etc. etc. I think people can absolutely show the contents of their boxes. You don't know what you get, but everything is there that you COULD get. Having a big ticket book randomly placed on top - it's still very grey.

 

 

This sale falls into the "among the buyers there will be a lucky winner" camp. Out.

 

It doesn't matter if everyone else got full value plus more, and the lucky winner really made out. The reason is that it then becomes a debate whether there was real full value or not, and because even a simple give away that has nothing to do with compensating buyers who paid too much for something with the chance of winning much more, still requires things like no purchase necessary.

 

If you'd like to sell ten mystery boxes, and then give away from slab to the lucky winner out of those ten people AND whoever raises their hand and wants in on the drawing for free, then you could maybe do that. But why would you? And frankly, if what you're selling is so good anyway, why would you need to?

 

No "lucky winners" that had to pay you money to be lucky please.

 

What if it was simply stated that i am making up boxes with a guaranteed FMV of $200-$500 and they are $100 each. Would this be acceptable?

 

 

 

I think the goal is everyone feeling ...."I'm buying this in hopes of getting something commiserate with the value I'm expecting," not buying hoping for MORE or worrying about getting LESS. If you go into the purchase thinking you have a chance to 'win' more than other people who are buying the 'same' thing, that's a lottery.

 

If I got a box worth about $500, I would feel like I 'won'. If I got a box worth $200 and someone posted a box loaded to $500, I would feel like I 'lost', knowing we paid the same price.

 

 

I think there's 2 main types of mystery box sales.

 

1. I've got X of number of mystery boxes to sell, they're all about the same pice, and some of the following books are in these, or have some of the following values. If people have a random chance of 'chasing' a book they want (for collection or for profit), then it is a LOTTERY.

 

For example, I've got 10 $300 books, each is going into a different box sold for $250. The books are (appropriately graded) NM 98, ASM 300, some old high grade Aquaman signed by Nick Cardy, etc. Now I want the Cardy SS (as I already have 10+ ASM 300 and NM 98 or I hate copper comics or whatever reason). I buy a box, but only because there is a randomly assigned chance I get the Cardy SS (and I'm covered financially even if I don't). Even though the values are all the same and more than the purchase price, this is STILL A LOTTERY, because I'm buying a chance at winning a desirable prize that not every purchaser gets.

Now whether CGC moderates it as such is questionable, and the fact that the acceptableness of the lottery is based on relative subjective values and not based entirely on the definition of the word 'lottery' is a huge problem in my opinion. "Why this lottery and not this lottery? Isn't the rule simply no lotteries?" GOOD QUESTION.

 

 

2. The real mystery box. I've got 4 boxes of 100 issues of 90's marvel comics in VFish condition, I'll sell it $XXX plus shipping. I say THIS is ok because you're not competing against others for anything specific, and there is nothing in the LISTING to make you think a given box is more desirable than any other boxes, and you've given some description (albeit somewhat vague) to satisfy rule 6 and 7.

 

IF someone says 1 of the boxes will be full of Youngblood #1, then you have a lottery again because that information could make you desire (or not desire) a given box more than the others.

 

 

 

At least that's how I see it. If someone has an advertised chance of winning something that not everyone else wins when buying a mystery box, , then you've got yourself a lottery, and are subject to all the random state legal regulation associated with that type of thing. Now there are different types of lotteries and different rules from state to state, but its confusing...

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

I blame f-ing greggy for all of it.

[jsilverjanet]

Swick certainly got noticed.

 

Swick did you hair turn white?

[telerites]

I think of a Burning Bush when I read Arch's posts