General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Semicentennial]

While this might be minor compared to the color touch/trim issue, but what about the DC Comics Presents #49 which was claimed as Black Adam's 2nd appearance. The book is probably his 4th or 5th Bronze Age appearance. I can understand him not knowing how to detect restoration but what about character appearances?

[slym2none]

Hmm....m'kay, that was a whole bunch of reading for nothing. The big bold font and huge posts reminds me of samco1. On the notepad you go, Greg

 

I read the first few words and that was it.

 

This guy has his head so far up his he can see his tonsils.

 

Used car salesman is what that wall of text looked like to me.

 

Used vacuum-cleaner salesman is what I heard. Just a large amount of sucking.

 

 

 

-slym

[InvstmntComcSuply]

While this might be minor compared to the color touch/trim issue, but what about the DC Comics Presents #49 which was claimed as Black Adam's 2nd appearance. The book is probably his 4th or 5th Bronze Age appearance. I can understand him not knowing how to detect restoration but what about character appearances?

 

or

 

DREADSTAR #01 (1982)

SECOND APPEARANCE: DREADSTAR

 

[SFHeroBoyGreg]

 

I wholeheartedly agree: Simple is better.

 

I also promised a conclusion to my earlier reply, and that is what now follows:

 

Restoration isn't easily recognized. If one doesn't have experience with the process or what the of signs of it may be, restoration could be overlooked all-together. One can't see a thing for what it is, if they've never seen, heard, or seen and heard of it before. CGC notes that anyone, from the novice to an

experienced collector, can miss restoration. That is why they screen for it.

 

Including AVENGERS #57, I own fewer than a dozen Silver Age comic books, and none of them slabbed. I'd estimate that 90% of my collection is late Bronze Age to Modern present day. My experience with slabbed, CGC-graded books is minimal; I'd love to have much more than I do, and if I could, I'd dive head-first into the waters of the comics grading world. Having a book graded and slabbed is rational, practical, and financially sound; it makes sense, and there's a very real 'Cool Factor' to it as well.

 

I won THE AVENGERS #57 in an eBay auction about three years ago, from a Seller who does a lot of business on the site and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books. While I am still endeavoring to find that sellers information, I will tell you that that Auction was fiercely competitive, the book brought tons of interest, and I was stoked when I won. I still paid a pretty penny for the book, I assure you. There was no mention of any restoration work having been done to the comic, and as far as I've been concerned ever since, I bought what I paid for.

 

My decision to sell the book, and the other Avengers comics I had just begun to post to the Thread, was based on the simple fact that I needed to make some cash. I really didn't want to part with #57 at all; I always believed it to be one of my best books, but I had to let it go.

 

That said, I wanted to ensure I was as accurate as possible. Before beginning the Thread, I scanned the book's covers and took over a dozen photos of the inside pages, which I posted in an online photo album that can be found HERE.

 

(I invite everyone to take a moment and review the photos.)

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

And it was. All the information, from points raised and discussed with my friend who reviewed the book to the online photo album, was provided to the

Buyer for his review prior to any commitment. The comic was bought and sold in complete good faith.

 

(Had it not sold as quickly, then the helpful and insightful comments and the question of possible restoration would have been more than enough for me to remove the book from the Thread. )

 

The Buyer, a gentleman whom I've previously sold books to, wanted the sale to remain anonymous. I had no problem honoring his request, nor did I foresee any problems by doing so.

 

None of the resulting discussion is his fault at all; however, had the sale not been anonymous, direct private communication with the Buyer would have been possible and questions, like whether or not the Buyer really even exists, would not have arisen in the fertile grounds of imagination.

 

As they have, then if the consensus of the Forum is for me to provide proof of an actual Buyer, then I will ask them to identify themselves first. Like a journalist, I intend to everything I can to maintain the integrity of my transaction with the Buyer of #57. However, as Mr Spock would say, "The Good of the Many..." and I concur, and will take action appropriately.

 

Moving on:

 

Knowledge falls into three categories: The Things We Know, The Things We Know We Don't Know, and The Things We Don't Know That We Don't Know.

 

Everything I both knew and didn't know about AVENGERS #57 was fully disclosed at time of sale. The book is as it was when I became its owner; what I know of its past comes only from what I was told. I don't know if the seller I first bought from knew that this might be a restored book, but as a very popular eBay seller with great ratings and stellar sales, I had no reason at that time to doubt any claims they made.

 

The problems with AVENGERS #57, its likely restorations, come from beyond my practical experience. They are things I didn't know that I didn't know. As the current seller, I completely accept responsibility for the item and for resolving the sale with the Buyer. And because it would be possible for any one of us to sell, in good faith, a book that might potentially be restored, I fully support any and all discussion and education on this matter; talking about this subject in a public, open forum is good and necessary and relevant.

 

But the discussion has its proper bounds, too. Suggestions of subterfuge, deceit, or any kind of intentional ill will, when unsubstantiated, have no place in an environment built upon a foundation of good faith.

 

I think I've answered all that I can answer: The Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How's of the matter have been addressed.

 

The problem, or misfortune, is not with my posting THE AVENGERS #57. Given that the likelihood of it being restored is high, the misfortune is mine alone; I paid good money for the sucker a few years back.

 

For the Community here, I see the posting of AVENGERS #57 for what it could have been, and what it still can be:

 

An Opportunity to inform and to educate others like myself, and many of you, who aren't familiar with restoration, so that come tomorrow or some other day down the road, one of us doesn't spend more hard-earned money on a book we my otherwise have decided against.

 

Therefore:

 

At this time, I personally don't have the means to submit #57 for a proper, professional restoration screening. However, if any one who is reading this does, and would like to commit to submitting the book to CGC for screening and, when completed, to share CGC's screening results with the Message Board Community, then I will hand over my copy of THE AVENGERS #57 to you, for free, in good faith, and on your word of fulfilling the obligation.

 

First here on the Discussion Thread gets the Win.

 

 

[Iceman399]

for the win... not sure what I win but I freaking win

[The-Collector]

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree: Simple is better.

 

I also promised a conclusion to my earlier reply, and that is what now follows:

 

Restoration isn't easily recognized. If one doesn't have experience with the process or what the of signs of it may be, restoration could be overlooked all-together. One can't see a thing for what it is, if they've never seen, heard, or seen and heard of it before. CGC notes that anyone, from the novice to an

experienced collector, can miss restoration. That is why they screen for it.

 

Including AVENGERS #57, I own fewer than a dozen Silver Age comic books, and none of them slabbed. I'd estimate that 90% of my collection is late Bronze Age to Modern present day. My experience with slabbed, CGC-graded books is minimal; I'd love to have much more than I do, and if I could, I'd dive head-first into the waters of the comics grading world. Having a book graded and slabbed is rational, practical, and financially sound; it makes sense, and there's a very real 'Cool Factor' to it as well.

 

I won THE AVENGERS #57 in an eBay auction about three years ago, from a Seller who does a lot of business on the site and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books. While I am still endeavoring to find that sellers information, I will tell you that that Auction was fiercely competitive, the book brought tons of interest, and I was stoked when I won. I still paid a pretty penny for the book, I assure you. There was no mention of any restoration work having been done to the comic, and as far as I've been concerned ever since, I bought what I paid for.

 

My decision to sell the book, and the other Avengers comics I had just begun to post to the Thread, was based on the simple fact that I needed to make some cash. I really didn't want to part with #57 at all; I always believed it to be one of my best books, but I had to let it go.

 

That said, I wanted to ensure I was as accurate as possible. Before beginning the Thread, I scanned the book's covers and took over a dozen photos of the inside pages, which I posted in an online photo album that can be found HERE.

 

(I invite everyone to take a moment and review the photos.)

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

And it was. All the information, from points raised and discussed with my friend who reviewed the book to the online photo album, was provided to the

Buyer for his review prior to any commitment. The comic was bought and sold in complete good faith.

 

(Had it not sold as quickly, then the helpful and insightful comments and the question of possible restoration would have been more than enough for me to remove the book from the Thread. )

 

The Buyer, a gentleman whom I've previously sold books to, wanted the sale to remain anonymous. I had no problem honoring his request, nor did I foresee any problems by doing so.

 

None of the resulting discussion is his fault at all; however, had the sale not been anonymous, direct private communication with the Buyer would have been possible and questions, like whether or not the Buyer really even exists, would not have arisen in the fertile grounds of imagination.

 

As they have, then if the consensus of the Forum is for me to provide proof of an actual Buyer, then I will ask them to identify themselves first. Like a journalist, I intend to everything I can to maintain the integrity of my transaction with the Buyer of #57. However, as Mr Spock would say, "The Good of the Many..." and I concur, and will take action appropriately.

 

Moving on:

 

Knowledge falls into three categories: The Things We Know, The Things We Know We Don't Know, and The Things We Don't Know That We Don't Know.

 

Everything I both knew and didn't know about AVENGERS #57 was fully disclosed at time of sale. The book is as it was when I became its owner; what I know of its past comes only from what I was told. I don't know if the seller I first bought from knew that this might be a restored book, but as a very popular eBay seller with great ratings and stellar sales, I had no reason at that time to doubt any claims they made.

 

The problems with AVENGERS #57, its likely restorations, come from beyond my practical experience. They are things I didn't know that I didn't know. As the current seller, I completely accept responsibility for the item and for resolving the sale with the Buyer. And because it would be possible for any one of us to sell, in good faith, a book that might potentially be restored, I fully support any and all discussion and education on this matter; talking about this subject in a public, open forum is good and necessary and relevant.

 

But the discussion has its proper bounds, too. Suggestions of subterfuge, deceit, or any kind of intentional ill will, when unsubstantiated, have no place in an environment built upon a foundation of good faith.

 

I think I've answered all that I can answer: The Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How's of the matter have been addressed.

 

The problem, or misfortune, is not with my posting THE AVENGERS #57. Given that the likelihood of it being restored is high, the misfortune is mine alone; I paid good money for the sucker a few years back.

 

For the Community here, I see the posting of AVENGERS #57 for what it could have been, and what it still can be:

 

An Opportunity to inform and to educate others like myself, and many of you, who aren't familiar with restoration, so that come tomorrow or some other day down the road, one of us doesn't spend more hard-earned money on a book we my otherwise have decided against.

 

Therefore:

 

At this time, I personally don't have the means to submit #57 for a proper, professional restoration screening. However, if any one who is reading this does, and would like to commit to submitting the book to CGC for screening and, when completed, to share CGC's screening results with the Message Board Community, then I will hand over my copy of THE AVENGERS #57 to you, for free, in good faith, and on your word of fulfilling the obligation.

 

First here on the Discussion Thread gets the Win.

 

 

 

You can't give the book away unless you have made the purchaser whole again and refunded their money in full. If you have not done this they have a lien over the goods.

Edited April 9, 2015 by The-Collector

[DR.X]

I wholeheartedly agree: Simple is better.

 

 

[Iceman399]

 

I wholeheartedly agree: Simple is better.

 

I also promised a conclusion to my earlier reply, and that is what now follows:

 

Restoration isn't easily recognized. If one doesn't have experience with the process or what the of signs of it may be, restoration could be overlooked all-together. One can't see a thing for what it is, if they've never seen, heard, or seen and heard of it before. CGC notes that anyone, from the novice to an

experienced collector, can miss restoration. That is why they screen for it.

 

Including AVENGERS #57, I own fewer than a dozen Silver Age comic books, and none of them slabbed. I'd estimate that 90% of my collection is late Bronze Age to Modern present day. My experience with slabbed, CGC-graded books is minimal; I'd love to have much more than I do, and if I could, I'd dive head-first into the waters of the comics grading world. Having a book graded and slabbed is rational, practical, and financially sound; it makes sense, and there's a very real 'Cool Factor' to it as well.

 

I won THE AVENGERS #57 in an eBay auction about three years ago, from a Seller who does a lot of business on the site and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books. While I am still endeavoring to find that sellers information, I will tell you that that Auction was fiercely competitive, the book brought tons of interest, and I was stoked when I won. I still paid a pretty penny for the book, I assure you. There was no mention of any restoration work having been done to the comic, and as far as I've been concerned ever since, I bought what I paid for.

 

My decision to sell the book, and the other Avengers comics I had just begun to post to the Thread, was based on the simple fact that I needed to make some cash. I really didn't want to part with #57 at all; I always believed it to be one of my best books, but I had to let it go.

 

That said, I wanted to ensure I was as accurate as possible. Before beginning the Thread, I scanned the book's covers and took over a dozen photos of the inside pages, which I posted in an online photo album that can be found HERE.

 

(I invite everyone to take a moment and review the photos.)

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

And it was. All the information, from points raised and discussed with my friend who reviewed the book to the online photo album, was provided to the

Buyer for his review prior to any commitment. The comic was bought and sold in complete good faith.

 

(Had it not sold as quickly, then the helpful and insightful comments and the question of possible restoration would have been more than enough for me to remove the book from the Thread. )

 

The Buyer, a gentleman whom I've previously sold books to, wanted the sale to remain anonymous. I had no problem honoring his request, nor did I foresee any problems by doing so.

 

None of the resulting discussion is his fault at all; however, had the sale not been anonymous, direct private communication with the Buyer would have been possible and questions, like whether or not the Buyer really even exists, would not have arisen in the fertile grounds of imagination.

 

As they have, then if the consensus of the Forum is for me to provide proof of an actual Buyer, then I will ask them to identify themselves first. Like a journalist, I intend to everything I can to maintain the integrity of my transaction with the Buyer of #57. However, as Mr Spock would say, "The Good of the Many..." and I concur, and will take action appropriately.

 

Moving on:

 

Knowledge falls into three categories: The Things We Know, The Things We Know We Don't Know, and The Things We Don't Know That We Don't Know.

 

Everything I both knew and didn't know about AVENGERS #57 was fully disclosed at time of sale. The book is as it was when I became its owner; what I know of its past comes only from what I was told. I don't know if the seller I first bought from knew that this might be a restored book, but as a very popular eBay seller with great ratings and stellar sales, I had no reason at that time to doubt any claims they made.

 

The problems with AVENGERS #57, its likely restorations, come from beyond my practical experience. They are things I didn't know that I didn't know. As the current seller, I completely accept responsibility for the item and for resolving the sale with the Buyer. And because it would be possible for any one of us to sell, in good faith, a book that might potentially be restored, I fully support any and all discussion and education on this matter; talking about this subject in a public, open forum is good and necessary and relevant.

 

But the discussion has its proper bounds, too. Suggestions of subterfuge, deceit, or any kind of intentional ill will, when unsubstantiated, have no place in an environment built upon a foundation of good faith.

 

I think I've answered all that I can answer: The Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How's of the matter have been addressed.

 

The problem, or misfortune, is not with my posting THE AVENGERS #57. Given that the likelihood of it being restored is high, the misfortune is mine alone; I paid good money for the sucker a few years back.

 

For the Community here, I see the posting of AVENGERS #57 for what it could have been, and what it still can be:

 

An Opportunity to inform and to educate others like myself, and many of you, who aren't familiar with restoration, so that come tomorrow or some other day down the road, one of us doesn't spend more hard-earned money on a book we my otherwise have decided against.

 

Therefore:

 

At this time, I personally don't have the means to submit #57 for a proper, professional restoration screening. However, if any one who is reading this does, and would like to commit to submitting the book to CGC for screening and, when completed, to share CGC's screening results with the Message Board Community, then I will hand over my copy of THE AVENGERS #57 to you, for free, in good faith, and on your word of fulfilling the obligation.

 

First here on the Discussion Thread gets the Win.

 

 

 

You can't give the book away unless you have made the purchaser whole again and refunded their money in full. If you have not done this they have a lien over the goods.

 

I only get the win not the book. He said he sold it to his "anonymous" friend that buys his books all the time, but he can't do anything that its restored. Sucks to be his friend.

Edited April 9, 2015 by iceman399

[Red_Hood]

Once again, this was absolute jibber-jabber.

You could've solved this with timely, HONEST and upfront answers.

None of which you've provided as you seem to be playing dumb.

I still think you come across as an unethical seller who is trying to play the sympathy card.

 

 

[DR.X]

Here's how it is simple. You run a sales thread you offer a full refund on anything your sell, no questions asked, period.

 

We all make mistakes, I've made them. Buyers were given immediate refunds, or compensated with other books. End of story. We move on. Every one is happy.

[The-Collector]

 

I wholeheartedly agree: Simple is better.

 

I also promised a conclusion to my earlier reply, and that is what now follows:

 

Restoration isn't easily recognized. If one doesn't have experience with the process or what the of signs of it may be, restoration could be overlooked all-together. One can't see a thing for what it is, if they've never seen, heard, or seen and heard of it before. CGC notes that anyone, from the novice to an

experienced collector, can miss restoration. That is why they screen for it.

 

Including AVENGERS #57, I own fewer than a dozen Silver Age comic books, and none of them slabbed. I'd estimate that 90% of my collection is late Bronze Age to Modern present day. My experience with slabbed, CGC-graded books is minimal; I'd love to have much more than I do, and if I could, I'd dive head-first into the waters of the comics grading world. Having a book graded and slabbed is rational, practical, and financially sound; it makes sense, and there's a very real 'Cool Factor' to it as well.

 

I won THE AVENGERS #57 in an eBay auction about three years ago, from a Seller who does a lot of business on the site and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books. While I am still endeavoring to find that sellers information, I will tell you that that Auction was fiercely competitive, the book brought tons of interest, and I was stoked when I won. I still paid a pretty penny for the book, I assure you. There was no mention of any restoration work having been done to the comic, and as far as I've been concerned ever since, I bought what I paid for.

 

My decision to sell the book, and the other Avengers comics I had just begun to post to the Thread, was based on the simple fact that I needed to make some cash. I really didn't want to part with #57 at all; I always believed it to be one of my best books, but I had to let it go.

 

That said, I wanted to ensure I was as accurate as possible. Before beginning the Thread, I scanned the book's covers and took over a dozen photos of the inside pages, which I posted in an online photo album that can be found HERE.

 

(I invite everyone to take a moment and review the photos.)

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

And it was. All the information, from points raised and discussed with my friend who reviewed the book to the online photo album, was provided to the

Buyer for his review prior to any commitment. The comic was bought and sold in complete good faith.

 

(Had it not sold as quickly, then the helpful and insightful comments and the question of possible restoration would have been more than enough for me to remove the book from the Thread. )

 

The Buyer, a gentleman whom I've previously sold books to, wanted the sale to remain anonymous. I had no problem honoring his request, nor did I foresee any problems by doing so.

 

None of the resulting discussion is his fault at all; however, had the sale not been anonymous, direct private communication with the Buyer would have been possible and questions, like whether or not the Buyer really even exists, would not have arisen in the fertile grounds of imagination.

 

As they have, then if the consensus of the Forum is for me to provide proof of an actual Buyer, then I will ask them to identify themselves first. Like a journalist, I intend to everything I can to maintain the integrity of my transaction with the Buyer of #57. However, as Mr Spock would say, "The Good of the Many..." and I concur, and will take action appropriately.

 

Moving on:

 

Knowledge falls into three categories: The Things We Know, The Things We Know We Don't Know, and The Things We Don't Know That We Don't Know.

 

Everything I both knew and didn't know about AVENGERS #57 was fully disclosed at time of sale. The book is as it was when I became its owner; what I know of its past comes only from what I was told. I don't know if the seller I first bought from knew that this might be a restored book, but as a very popular eBay seller with great ratings and stellar sales, I had no reason at that time to doubt any claims they made.

 

The problems with AVENGERS #57, its likely restorations, come from beyond my practical experience. They are things I didn't know that I didn't know. As the current seller, I completely accept responsibility for the item and for resolving the sale with the Buyer. And because it would be possible for any one of us to sell, in good faith, a book that might potentially be restored, I fully support any and all discussion and education on this matter; talking about this subject in a public, open forum is good and necessary and relevant.

 

But the discussion has its proper bounds, too. Suggestions of subterfuge, deceit, or any kind of intentional ill will, when unsubstantiated, have no place in an environment built upon a foundation of good faith.

 

I think I've answered all that I can answer: The Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How's of the matter have been addressed.

 

The problem, or misfortune, is not with my posting THE AVENGERS #57. Given that the likelihood of it being restored is high, the misfortune is mine alone; I paid good money for the sucker a few years back.

 

For the Community here, I see the posting of AVENGERS #57 for what it could have been, and what it still can be:

 

An Opportunity to inform and to educate others like myself, and many of you, who aren't familiar with restoration, so that come tomorrow or some other day down the road, one of us doesn't spend more hard-earned money on a book we my otherwise have decided against.

 

Therefore:

 

At this time, I personally don't have the means to submit #57 for a proper, professional restoration screening. However, if any one who is reading this does, and would like to commit to submitting the book to CGC for screening and, when completed, to share CGC's screening results with the Message Board Community, then I will hand over my copy of THE AVENGERS #57 to you, for free, in good faith, and on your word of fulfilling the obligation.

 

First here on the Discussion Thread gets the Win.

 

 

 

You can't give the book away unless you have made the purchaser whole again and refunded their money in full. If you have not done this they have a lien over the goods.

 

I only get the win not the book. He said he sold it to his "anonymous" friend that buys his books all the time, but he can't do anything that its restored. Sucks to be his friend.

 

I am pretty sure he has just given the book away to you if you agree to pay slabbing fees and then disclose the restoration notes. and I know for a FACT he has not refunded the original purchaser.

 

Also on the claim that he did not have enough time to take the book down. He posted it for sale at 12:52, at 01:08 I sent him a pm raising my concerns that it was restored to which he replied at 01:24am but it was not changed to being sold until 02:28 am.

[Red_Hood]

 

I wholeheartedly agree: Simple is better.

 

I also promised a conclusion to my earlier reply, and that is what now follows:

 

Restoration isn't easily recognized. If one doesn't have experience with the process or what the of signs of it may be, restoration could be overlooked all-together. One can't see a thing for what it is, if they've never seen, heard, or seen and heard of it before. CGC notes that anyone, from the novice to an

experienced collector, can miss restoration. That is why they screen for it.

 

Including AVENGERS #57, I own fewer than a dozen Silver Age comic books, and none of them slabbed. I'd estimate that 90% of my collection is late Bronze Age to Modern present day. My experience with slabbed, CGC-graded books is minimal; I'd love to have much more than I do, and if I could, I'd dive head-first into the waters of the comics grading world. Having a book graded and slabbed is rational, practical, and financially sound; it makes sense, and there's a very real 'Cool Factor' to it as well.

 

I won THE AVENGERS #57 in an eBay auction about three years ago, from a Seller who does a lot of business on the site and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books. While I am still endeavoring to find that sellers information, I will tell you that that Auction was fiercely competitive, the book brought tons of interest, and I was stoked when I won. I still paid a pretty penny for the book, I assure you. There was no mention of any restoration work having been done to the comic, and as far as I've been concerned ever since, I bought what I paid for.

 

My decision to sell the book, and the other Avengers comics I had just begun to post to the Thread, was based on the simple fact that I needed to make some cash. I really didn't want to part with #57 at all; I always believed it to be one of my best books, but I had to let it go.

 

That said, I wanted to ensure I was as accurate as possible. Before beginning the Thread, I scanned the book's covers and took over a dozen photos of the inside pages, which I posted in an online photo album that can be found HERE.

 

(I invite everyone to take a moment and review the photos.)

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

And it was. All the information, from points raised and discussed with my friend who reviewed the book to the online photo album, was provided to the

Buyer for his review prior to any commitment. The comic was bought and sold in complete good faith.

 

(Had it not sold as quickly, then the helpful and insightful comments and the question of possible restoration would have been more than enough for me to remove the book from the Thread. )

 

The Buyer, a gentleman whom I've previously sold books to, wanted the sale to remain anonymous. I had no problem honoring his request, nor did I foresee any problems by doing so.

 

None of the resulting discussion is his fault at all; however, had the sale not been anonymous, direct private communication with the Buyer would have been possible and questions, like whether or not the Buyer really even exists, would not have arisen in the fertile grounds of imagination.

 

As they have, then if the consensus of the Forum is for me to provide proof of an actual Buyer, then I will ask them to identify themselves first. Like a journalist, I intend to everything I can to maintain the integrity of my transaction with the Buyer of #57. However, as Mr Spock would say, "The Good of the Many..." and I concur, and will take action appropriately.

 

Moving on:

 

Knowledge falls into three categories: The Things We Know, The Things We Know We Don't Know, and The Things We Don't Know That We Don't Know.

 

Everything I both knew and didn't know about AVENGERS #57 was fully disclosed at time of sale. The book is as it was when I became its owner; what I know of its past comes only from what I was told. I don't know if the seller I first bought from knew that this might be a restored book, but as a very popular eBay seller with great ratings and stellar sales, I had no reason at that time to doubt any claims they made.

 

The problems with AVENGERS #57, its likely restorations, come from beyond my practical experience. They are things I didn't know that I didn't know. As the current seller, I completely accept responsibility for the item and for resolving the sale with the Buyer. And because it would be possible for any one of us to sell, in good faith, a book that might potentially be restored, I fully support any and all discussion and education on this matter; talking about this subject in a public, open forum is good and necessary and relevant.

 

But the discussion has its proper bounds, too. Suggestions of subterfuge, deceit, or any kind of intentional ill will, when unsubstantiated, have no place in an environment built upon a foundation of good faith.

 

I think I've answered all that I can answer: The Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How's of the matter have been addressed.

 

The problem, or misfortune, is not with my posting THE AVENGERS #57. Given that the likelihood of it being restored is high, the misfortune is mine alone; I paid good money for the sucker a few years back.

 

For the Community here, I see the posting of AVENGERS #57 for what it could have been, and what it still can be:

 

An Opportunity to inform and to educate others like myself, and many of you, who aren't familiar with restoration, so that come tomorrow or some other day down the road, one of us doesn't spend more hard-earned money on a book we my otherwise have decided against.

 

Therefore:

 

At this time, I personally don't have the means to submit #57 for a proper, professional restoration screening. However, if any one who is reading this does, and would like to commit to submitting the book to CGC for screening and, when completed, to share CGC's screening results with the Message Board Community, then I will hand over my copy of THE AVENGERS #57 to you, for free, in good faith, and on your word of fulfilling the obligation.

 

First here on the Discussion Thread gets the Win.

 

 

 

You can't give the book away unless you have made the purchaser whole again and refunded their money in full. If you have not done this they have a lien over the goods.

 

I only get the win not the book. He said he sold it to his "anonymous" friend that buys his books all the time, but he can't do anything that its restored. Sucks to be his friend.

 

I am pretty sure he has just given the book away to you if you agree to pay slabbing fees and then disclose the restoration notes. and I know for a FACT he has not refunded the original purchaser.

 

Also on the claim that he did not have enough time to take the book down. He posted it for sale at 12:52, at 01:08 I sent him a pm raising my concerns that it was restored to which he replied at 01:24am but it was not changed to being sold until 02:28 am.

 

Holy Scum-Bag Batman!!

[wombat]

[Semicentennial]

Congratulations for posting outside your own sales thread.

[Norrin's lawyer]

Jimbo, and others, you are awesome. Another reason I love these boards ... this is like I am back years ago in a course, listening to a professor ... just so happens I am really into this subject matter. I have always been paranoid about my weak ability to spot CT. Since I have been a member on these boards, you have educated me well (thumbs u

 

Just a general question on trimming. I've always thought that the width of a book could vary because of the cutting process getting out of alignment, but I always assumed that the height of a book would stay relatively even.

 

When lining this book up in photoshop with a few copies I have, it looks like there is approx 3/16"-1/4" missing on the height. Approx 1/8"+ off the top & 1/16" off the bottom.

 

....this is a tough question, as slight variations can occur. For the most part I would think you've made the right assumption. This particular book is a World Color job. The production quality from their plant was quite a bit better than Marvel's previous printer, Eastern. They switched not too long before Avengers 57 went to press..... but it seems that certain titles went to World sooner than others. The printer is usually listed in the indicia..... and books from Eastern, basically anything from 1966 and earlier, can exhibit significant flaws and dimensional anomalies from book to book. The further back you go the worse it can be..... so bad that you really can't place different copies of the same book next to each other as a 100% comparison. Books from the 50's to early 60's are the absolute worst..... some issues can be very difficult to find nicely centered and "square".GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I won THE AVENGERS #57 in an eBay auction about three years ago, from a Seller who does a lot of business on the site and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books. While I am still endeavoring to find that sellers information, I will tell you that that Auction was fiercely competitive, the book brought tons of interest, and I was stoked when I won. I still paid a pretty penny for the book, I assure you. There was no mention of any restoration work having been done to the comic, and as far as I've been concerned ever since, I bought what I paid for.

 

. I don't know if the seller I first bought from knew that this might be a restored book, but as a very popular eBay seller with great ratings and stellar sales, I had no reason at that time to doubt any claims they made.

 

It sounds like you might have done a lot of business with this "stellar" seller.

I HIGHLY recommend that you pull any other books bought from this person and have someone with a good eye for restoration look at them before selling them. I seriously doubt any seller "who does a lot of business on ebay and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books" misses the restoration on that book.

[Shadow Images]

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

 

 

I know we all make mistakes but what does throwing someone else under the bus for your mistake do but make you sound even worse.

 

I've missed stuff and made mistakes. Its a simple 3 step process

 

Step 1 I'm sorry

 

Step 2 Please send me the book back and I will refund your money including return shipping.

 

Step 3 Again I am sorry for the hassle.

 

 

End of story

[Red_Hood]

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

 

 

I know we all make mistakes but what does throwing someone else under the bus for your mistake do but make you sound even worse.

 

I've missed stuff and made mistakes. Its a simple 3 step process

 

Step 1 I'm sorry

 

Step 2 Please send me the book back and I will refund your money including return shipping.

 

Step 3 Again I am sorry for the hassle.

 

 

End of story

 

This is the best advice you will ever get because it's common sense.

Gotta love desperate sellers who live sale to sale.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I am pretty sure he has just given the book away to you if you agree to pay slabbing fees and then disclose the restoration notes. and I know for a FACT he has not refunded the original purchaser.

.

 

I was afraid of that with this quote: "The comic was bought and sold in complete good faith." and "I intend to everything I can to maintain the integrity of my transaction with the Buyer of #57"

 

 

 

[wombat]

I wonder if he bought it from this ebay seller:

 

http://www.ebay.com/usr/all_things_comics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559