General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Boboset]

Greg, just answer the questions. Making a big flashy spectacle of selling a book with undisclosed resto is beyond a poor move.

[AmazingComics413]

[Jeffro.]

 

Well, another one for the personal do not deal list

[Jeffro.]

Just gonna quote this for posterity.

 

 

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I have your attention, please?

 

I think a great many of my fellow Message Board members have been waiting to hear what The O.P. has to say on the matter of THE AVENGERS #57, most of you also wondering - speculating - if, indeed, The O.P. would say anything at all.

 

The wait is over, friends; no need to speculate a moment more. I'm here, my name is Greg (although here amongst the Boards I'm better known as SFHeroBoyGreg), and while I'll tell you a little more about me later, I have a few general observations I'd like to share first.

 

In a word: Wow. I mean, Wow, as in "Cool Wow!" What a tremendous amount of positive, community-protective discussion has taken place since THE AVENGERS #57 was first posted just three nights back. I noticed several comments of concern, and quite a few with the intent of educating other Members on restoration-related matters. If just for the sheer volume of the productive discussion it engendered, the posting of THE AVENGERS #57 was an absolutely worthwhile thing to have done.

 

In addition, the many pages of responses posted prior to this one, as well as those that were posted to the original Sales Thread, either directly -- or at least, hinted at -- plenty of other subjects, questions, issues that are worthy of further thought: From Conduct to Content and placement of Replies, to Attitude, Assumptions, and Appropriateness; from the General Knowledge of Message Boards users and Message Boards etiquette, to the Basic Premise -- Good Faith -- of Selling in the Comics Market, to more specific things like the Pros and Cons of Anonymous Purchases and the subjective matter of the Timeliness of Response.

 

All of those issues, and plenty of others I'm sure I overlooked, opened doors to new discussions and matters worthy of further examination. They all, to one degree or another, had their impact on the discussion and debate post-AVENGERS #57.

 

While I applaud the Community-driven intention of many of the posts,, there were quite a few comments that didn't project that same proactive spirit. A single comment, like a match, can light a fire, which then becomes an inferno. Or like a Rumor, which quickly becomes Gossip. As writer L.M. Montgomery once said, "Gossip, as usual, [is] one-third right and two-thirds wrong."

 

Gossip, at least to me, isn't that Positive Thing we should want to inspire here on the Message Boards. Gossip - assumption, speculation, even some opinion - is not proactive, or productive, or protective of Community. It undermines the very premise. Spanish author Carlos Ruiz Zafron wrote, "In Small Towns, news travels at the speed of boredom." Boredom.

 

The last post I was able to make to my former Sales Thread was this:

 

 

In response to it, one final reply from a fellow Member (and frequent participant in the post-AVENGERS #57 discussion-gossip) made it on the Thread prior to the Thread being locked. All of four words, our fellow Member asked, "Exactly what Is that?"

 

As The O.P., I can tell you what exactly that is. My friend, That -- That is Fun.

 

Yes, this is, and we are, a Community -- A Small Town, if you will -- of Collectors. Of Comic Book Collectors. And aren't Comic Books, before everything and anything, supposed to be Fun?

 

To Infinity and Beyond, I think so. With the Themes and amateurishly homemade artwork I've used in all my former Sales Threads, I convey that belief each and every time. Comics are Fun. I want to have fun, and I want You to have fun, too. Thanks to many previous comments I've received (and greatly appreciated) from past Threads, I know that the Fun isn't lost on everyone.

 

Let's not forget what, however long ago, brought us to where we are today, Fellow Members: Fun.

 

On to the specifics here, the heart of the debate, the cream inside the proverbial Twinkies. Spoiler Warning: It's not that juicy of a steak.

 

To begin, let's refresh our memories by taking another small look at the offender in question:

 

THE AVENGERS #57, First Appearance of THE VISION . An awesome Silver Age key, a fantastic book with a very memorable cover, and the debut of a character whose name could not be more ironic given the circumstances, eh?

 

Per my understanding, if I may summarize:

 

This copy, which -- at least at first glance, if not even second or third glance -- looks great. A solid VF (8.0) book. However, upon closer inspection by many (though not all) a well-trained eye, obvious to apparently obvious signs of RESTORATION seem to be present. Indeed, the majority opinion regarding the book was/is that, in one way or another, at one place or another, and to some degree or another, THE AVENGERS #57 has been restored.

 

While the Thread's posting of the book for sale -- and the actual sale of the book itself just minutes afterward -- began the ensuing Discussion, the Discussion begged one real QUESTION, one that I fully agree needed to be asked:

 

Did The Seller Know That THE AVENGERS #57 is A Restored Book (and Not Disclose It)?

 

Regarding restored comic books, CGC itself said this:

 

 

In what's become a long post already, I *could* reasonably wrap-up with that, because in essence CGC has already acknowledged the "cream in the Twinkies" for me. But hey, I think after all the talk and hub-bub, I'm due a little more time, and inquiring minds need more than Twinkies, too. So...

 

FULL DISCLOSURE TIME!

 

I should throw this out: My birth certificate is in Arizona, not Hawaii. That said, in the Discussions, some incredible and (perhaps?) time-consuming research was conducted with the conclusion being that while I've sold some books here on The Message Boards, that I haven't participated in Discussion Threads. Is that true?

 

It's very true. But, it's not nefarious. Or undermining. It's nothing personal. And while after this long post, it's also no longer a claim that can be made. Guys, I've only ever owned, much less actually held in my two own hands, Two - Two - actual slabbed books, a New 52 Batman #1 signed by Snyder and Capullo (which I had to sell on eBay) and, more recently, a Batman #21 Capullo B&W Variant that I sold to a Fellow Member here on the Boards.

 

That's it. I've collected and read and enjoyed comics since I was ten years old. I'm 44 now. But until the past year or so, I really wanted nothing to do with CGC-graded books. Why? Because they ruin the Fun aspect of comic books. With graded books, comics become fantastic investments and commodities not unlike a bar of Gold or a reliable Stock, but they aren't meant to be read, or held, or smelled anymore. They lose their inherent nature of being a "comic book."

 

I haven't participated in Discussions because, for the most part, I'm not a member of the Slabbed Community. Comics Lovers Community, and even Sellers Community, yes. But slabbed books, no. Not that I wouldn't necessarily like to be, but I can't afford to play on that level.

 

That being said, and the fact of those two slabbed books I used to own, let me tell you: outside of being aware of a general process called "Comics Restoration," the in's and out's of restoring comics, right down to terms like trimming and color touch, were foreign concepts to me until the Discussion post-AVENGERS #57.

 

I'm not quite done with everything I have to say or that needs to be said, but it's quickly approaching 3 AM here in Oregon, and I need to get off my laptop and leave this Official Response on something of a cliff-hanger.

 

There IS more to the story of THE AVENGERS #57 and RESTORATION, and a follow-up post by me will be made to this Thread within the next 24 hours.

 

Until then, I welcome any and all questions and inquiries, comments, words of praise, ridicule, or outrage. All I ask is that you send them to me via PM, and know that I will reply to every message. It just may take a day or two.

 

Thanks for reading, my friends. And please, stay tuned....

 

 

Edited April 8, 2015 by Jeffro™

[etanick]

Greg, just answer the questions. Making a big flashy spectacle of selling a book with undisclosed resto is beyond a poor move.

 

don't you know it take time to write a wall of text with cool graphics! be patient....

[joeypost]

 

Well, another one for the personal do not deal list

 

+1

[The-Collector]

 

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I have your attention, please?

 

I think a great many of my fellow Message Board members have been waiting to hear what The O.P. has to say on the matter of THE AVENGERS #57, most of you also wondering - speculating - if, indeed, The O.P. would say anything at all.

 

The wait is over, friends; no need to speculate a moment more. I'm here, my name is Greg (although here amongst the Boards I'm better known as SFHeroBoyGreg), and while I'll tell you a little more about me later, I have a few general observations I'd like to share first.

 

In a word: Wow. I mean, Wow, as in "Cool Wow!" What a tremendous amount of positive, community-protective discussion has taken place since THE AVENGERS #57 was first posted just three nights back. I noticed several comments of concern, and quite a few with the intent of educating other Members on restoration-related matters. If just for the sheer volume of the productive discussion it engendered, the posting of THE AVENGERS #57 was an absolutely worthwhile thing to have done.

 

In addition, the many pages of responses posted prior to this one, as well as those that were posted to the original Sales Thread, either directly -- or at least, hinted at -- plenty of other subjects, questions, issues that are worthy of further thought: From Conduct to Content and placement of Replies, to Attitude, Assumptions, and Appropriateness; from the General Knowledge of Message Boards users and Message Boards etiquette, to the Basic Premise -- Good Faith -- of Selling in the Comics Market, to more specific things like the Pros and Cons of Anonymous Purchases and the subjective matter of the Timeliness of Response.

 

All of those issues, and plenty of others I'm sure I overlooked, opened doors to new discussions and matters worthy of further examination. They all, to one degree or another, had their impact on the discussion and debate post-AVENGERS #57.

 

While I applaud the Community-driven intention of many of the posts,, there were quite a few comments that didn't project that same proactive spirit. A single comment, like a match, can light a fire, which then becomes an inferno. Or like a Rumor, which quickly becomes Gossip. As writer L.M. Montgomery once said, "Gossip, as usual, [is] one-third right and two-thirds wrong."

 

Gossip, at least to me, isn't that Positive Thing we should want to inspire here on the Message Boards. Gossip - assumption, speculation, even some opinion - is not proactive, or productive, or protective of Community. It undermines the very premise. Spanish author Carlos Ruiz Zafron wrote, "In Small Towns, news travels at the speed of boredom." Boredom.

 

The last post I was able to make to my former Sales Thread was this:

 

 

In response to it, one final reply from a fellow Member (and frequent participant in the post-AVENGERS #57 discussion-gossip) made it on the Thread prior to the Thread being locked. All of four words, our fellow Member asked, "Exactly what Is that?"

 

As The O.P., I can tell you what exactly that is. My friend, That -- That is Fun.

 

Yes, this is, and we are, a Community -- A Small Town, if you will -- of Collectors. Of Comic Book Collectors. And aren't Comic Books, before everything and anything, supposed to be Fun?

 

To Infinity and Beyond, I think so. With the Themes and amateurishly homemade artwork I've used in all my former Sales Threads, I convey that belief each and every time. Comics are Fun. I want to have fun, and I want You to have fun, too. Thanks to many previous comments I've received (and greatly appreciated) from past Threads, I know that the Fun isn't lost on everyone.

 

Let's not forget what, however long ago, brought us to where we are today, Fellow Members: Fun.

 

On to the specifics here, the heart of the debate, the cream inside the proverbial Twinkies. Spoiler Warning: It's not that juicy of a steak.

 

To begin, let's refresh our memories by taking another small look at the offender in question:

 

THE AVENGERS #57, First Appearance of THE VISION . An awesome Silver Age key, a fantastic book with a very memorable cover, and the debut of a character whose name could not be more ironic given the circumstances, eh?

 

Per my understanding, if I may summarize:

 

This copy, which -- at least at first glance, if not even second or third glance -- looks great. A solid VF (8.0) book. However, upon closer inspection by many (though not all) a well-trained eye, obvious to apparently obvious signs of RESTORATION seem to be present. Indeed, the majority opinion regarding the book was/is that, in one way or another, at one place or another, and to some degree or another, THE AVENGERS #57 has been restored.

 

While the Thread's posting of the book for sale -- and the actual sale of the book itself just minutes afterward -- began the ensuing Discussion, the Discussion begged one real QUESTION, one that I fully agree needed to be asked:

 

Did The Seller Know That THE AVENGERS #57 is A Restored Book (and Not Disclose It)?

 

Regarding restored comic books, CGC itself said this:

 

 

In what's become a long post already, I *could* reasonably wrap-up with that, because in essence CGC has already acknowledged the "cream in the Twinkies" for me. But hey, I think after all the talk and hub-bub, I'm due a little more time, and inquiring minds need more than Twinkies, too. So...

 

FULL DISCLOSURE TIME!

 

I should throw this out: My birth certificate is in Arizona, not Hawaii. That said, in the Discussions, some incredible and (perhaps?) time-consuming research was conducted with the conclusion being that while I've sold some books here on The Message Boards, that I haven't participated in Discussion Threads. Is that true?

 

It's very true. But, it's not nefarious. Or undermining. It's nothing personal. And while after this long post, it's also no longer a claim that can be made. Guys, I've only ever owned, much less actually held in my two own hands, Two - Two - actual slabbed books, a New 52 Batman #1 signed by Snyder and Capullo (which I had to sell on eBay) and, more recently, a Batman #21 Capullo B&W Variant that I sold to a Fellow Member here on the Boards.

 

That's it. I've collected and read and enjoyed comics since I was ten years old. I'm 44 now. But until the past year or so, I really wanted nothing to do with CGC-graded books. Why? Because they ruin the Fun aspect of comic books. With graded books, comics become fantastic investments and commodities not unlike a bar of Gold or a reliable Stock, but they aren't meant to be read, or held, or smelled anymore. They lose their inherent nature of being a "comic book."

 

I haven't participated in Discussions because, for the most part, I'm not a member of the Slabbed Community. Comics Lovers Community, and even Sellers Community, yes. But slabbed books, no. Not that I wouldn't necessarily like to be, but I can't afford to play on that level.

 

That being said, and the fact of those two slabbed books I used to own, let me tell you: outside of being aware of a general process called "Comics Restoration," the in's and out's of restoring comics, right down to terms like trimming and color touch, were foreign concepts to me until the Discussion post-AVENGERS #57.

 

I'm not quite done with everything I have to say or that needs to be said, but it's quickly approaching 3 AM here in Oregon, and I need to get off my laptop and leave this Official Response on something of a cliff-hanger.

 

There IS more to the story of THE AVENGERS #57 and RESTORATION, and a follow-up post by me will be made to this Thread within the next 24 hours.

 

Until then, I welcome any and all questions and inquiries, comments, words of praise, ridicule, or outrage. All I ask is that you send them to me via PM, and know that I will reply to every message. It just may take a day or two.

 

Thanks for reading, my friends. And please, stay tuned....

 

 

 

It is good you are trying to explain.

 

I would simplify my explanations, remove the graphics and address directly:

 

1) Whether you knew about the restoration

2) Who the purchaser is.

 

Its fine to make mistakes. I think this board, while prone to witch hunts, can be forgiving if you are honest and contrite.

[Jeffro.]

That's the wrong approach, Greg.

 

Did you complete the sale for this restored Avengers 57 to a board member? Did they pay you? If they paid you, did you refund their money?

 

In PM's I told you to be direct and concise.

 

According to his profile, he's in sales and marketing. I'd say that shows in his approach to his response.

 

A lot less text with none of the unnecessary graphics and text formatting (bells and whistles) would have gone over a whole lot better.

[comix4fun]

Comix4fun would like to know if you're for real.

 

Comix4fun would also like to know if you actually believe that this smoke screen wall of text obfuscation grenade you lobbed in here accomplished anything.

 

Comix4fun would like to state that your non answer answer dug the whole deeper and you're not gonna find any "fun" down there.

 

Finally, comix4fun asked me to tell you that this is an example of why people hate people who write posts in the third person.

[jaybuck43]

 

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I have your attention, please?

 

I think a great many of my fellow Message Board members have been waiting to hear what The O.P. has to say on the matter of THE AVENGERS #57, most of you also wondering - speculating - if, indeed, The O.P. would say anything at all.

 

The wait is over, friends; no need to speculate a moment more. I'm here, my name is Greg (although here amongst the Boards I'm better known as SFHeroBoyGreg), and while I'll tell you a little more about me later, I have a few general observations I'd like to share first.

 

In a word: Wow. I mean, Wow, as in "Cool Wow!" What a tremendous amount of positive, community-protective discussion has taken place since THE AVENGERS #57 was first posted just three nights back. I noticed several comments of concern, and quite a few with the intent of educating other Members on restoration-related matters. If just for the sheer volume of the productive discussion it engendered, the posting of THE AVENGERS #57 was an absolutely worthwhile thing to have done.

 

In addition, the many pages of responses posted prior to this one, as well as those that were posted to the original Sales Thread, either directly -- or at least, hinted at -- plenty of other subjects, questions, issues that are worthy of further thought: From Conduct to Content and placement of Replies, to Attitude, Assumptions, and Appropriateness; from the General Knowledge of Message Boards users and Message Boards etiquette, to the Basic Premise -- Good Faith -- of Selling in the Comics Market, to more specific things like the Pros and Cons of Anonymous Purchases and the subjective matter of the Timeliness of Response.

 

All of those issues, and plenty of others I'm sure I overlooked, opened doors to new discussions and matters worthy of further examination. They all, to one degree or another, had their impact on the discussion and debate post-AVENGERS #57.

 

While I applaud the Community-driven intention of many of the posts,, there were quite a few comments that didn't project that same proactive spirit. A single comment, like a match, can light a fire, which then becomes an inferno. Or like a Rumor, which quickly becomes Gossip. As writer L.M. Montgomery once said, "Gossip, as usual, [is] one-third right and two-thirds wrong."

 

Gossip, at least to me, isn't that Positive Thing we should want to inspire here on the Message Boards. Gossip - assumption, speculation, even some opinion - is not proactive, or productive, or protective of Community. It undermines the very premise. Spanish author Carlos Ruiz Zafron wrote, "In Small Towns, news travels at the speed of boredom." Boredom.

 

The last post I was able to make to my former Sales Thread was this:

 

 

In response to it, one final reply from a fellow Member (and frequent participant in the post-AVENGERS #57 discussion-gossip) made it on the Thread prior to the Thread being locked. All of four words, our fellow Member asked, "Exactly what Is that?"

 

As The O.P., I can tell you what exactly that is. My friend, That -- That is Fun.

 

Yes, this is, and we are, a Community -- A Small Town, if you will -- of Collectors. Of Comic Book Collectors. And aren't Comic Books, before everything and anything, supposed to be Fun?

 

To Infinity and Beyond, I think so. With the Themes and amateurishly homemade artwork I've used in all my former Sales Threads, I convey that belief each and every time. Comics are Fun. I want to have fun, and I want You to have fun, too. Thanks to many previous comments I've received (and greatly appreciated) from past Threads, I know that the Fun isn't lost on everyone.

 

Let's not forget what, however long ago, brought us to where we are today, Fellow Members: Fun.

 

On to the specifics here, the heart of the debate, the cream inside the proverbial Twinkies. Spoiler Warning: It's not that juicy of a steak.

 

To begin, let's refresh our memories by taking another small look at the offender in question:

 

THE AVENGERS #57, First Appearance of THE VISION . An awesome Silver Age key, a fantastic book with a very memorable cover, and the debut of a character whose name could not be more ironic given the circumstances, eh?

 

Per my understanding, if I may summarize:

 

This copy, which -- at least at first glance, if not even second or third glance -- looks great. A solid VF (8.0) book. However, upon closer inspection by many (though not all) a well-trained eye, obvious to apparently obvious signs of RESTORATION seem to be present. Indeed, the majority opinion regarding the book was/is that, in one way or another, at one place or another, and to some degree or another, THE AVENGERS #57 has been restored.

 

While the Thread's posting of the book for sale -- and the actual sale of the book itself just minutes afterward -- began the ensuing Discussion, the Discussion begged one real QUESTION, one that I fully agree needed to be asked:

 

Did The Seller Know That THE AVENGERS #57 is A Restored Book (and Not Disclose It)?

 

Regarding restored comic books, CGC itself said this:

 

 

In what's become a long post already, I *could* reasonably wrap-up with that, because in essence CGC has already acknowledged the "cream in the Twinkies" for me. But hey, I think after all the talk and hub-bub, I'm due a little more time, and inquiring minds need more than Twinkies, too. So...

 

FULL DISCLOSURE TIME!

 

I should throw this out: My birth certificate is in Arizona, not Hawaii. That said, in the Discussions, some incredible and (perhaps?) time-consuming research was conducted with the conclusion being that while I've sold some books here on The Message Boards, that I haven't participated in Discussion Threads. Is that true?

 

It's very true. But, it's not nefarious. Or undermining. It's nothing personal. And while after this long post, it's also no longer a claim that can be made. Guys, I've only ever owned, much less actually held in my two own hands, Two - Two - actual slabbed books, a New 52 Batman #1 signed by Snyder and Capullo (which I had to sell on eBay) and, more recently, a Batman #21 Capullo B&W Variant that I sold to a Fellow Member here on the Boards.

 

That's it. I've collected and read and enjoyed comics since I was ten years old. I'm 44 now. But until the past year or so, I really wanted nothing to do with CGC-graded books. Why? Because they ruin the Fun aspect of comic books. With graded books, comics become fantastic investments and commodities not unlike a bar of Gold or a reliable Stock, but they aren't meant to be read, or held, or smelled anymore. They lose their inherent nature of being a "comic book."

 

I haven't participated in Discussions because, for the most part, I'm not a member of the Slabbed Community. Comics Lovers Community, and even Sellers Community, yes. But slabbed books, no. Not that I wouldn't necessarily like to be, but I can't afford to play on that level.

 

That being said, and the fact of those two slabbed books I used to own, let me tell you: outside of being aware of a general process called "Comics Restoration," the in's and out's of restoring comics, right down to terms like trimming and color touch, were foreign concepts to me until the Discussion post-AVENGERS #57.

 

I'm not quite done with everything I have to say or that needs to be said, but it's quickly approaching 3 AM here in Oregon, and I need to get off my laptop and leave this Official Response on something of a cliff-hanger.

 

There IS more to the story of THE AVENGERS #57 and RESTORATION, and a follow-up post by me will be made to this Thread within the next 24 hours.

 

Until then, I welcome any and all questions and inquiries, comments, words of praise, ridicule, or outrage. All I ask is that you send them to me via PM, and know that I will reply to every message. It just may take a day or two.

 

Thanks for reading, my friends. And please, stay tuned....

 

 

[comix4fun]

That's the wrong approach, Greg.

 

Did you complete the sale for this restored Avengers 57 to a board member? Did they pay you? If they paid you, did you refund their money?

 

In PM's I told you to be direct and concise.

 

According to his profile, he's in sales and marketing. I'd say that shows in his approach to his response.

 

A lot less text with none of the unnecessary graphics and text formatting (bells and whistles) would have gone over a whole lot better.

 

 

The right answer was about 5 words.

 

"Sorry. Missed it. Refund sent."

[Red84]

Well that was completely insane. Bravo!

[jsilverjanet]

Well that was completely insane. Bravo!

 

you signature line is getting too big, mods notified.

[wombat]

What a d bag.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

So you are saying you don't know anything about restoration because you don't collect slabbed books?

 

You sell books, you should not be doing that unless you learn something about possible problems.

 

This might be a good opportunity to point out that we as a community should not assume that everyone selling on the boards possesses adequate restoration detection skills. In my limited sampling, I have found more undisclosed restoration on board purchases, than I have on ebay purchases.

 

While I don't think possession of such skills should be a requirement of selling on the boards, I would be extremely annoyed if the seller did not address it succinctly and timely, once it was brought to his attention.

[DR.X]

That's what I call a babbling waste of time.

Everything you said was useless.

 

+1

 

I refuse to read that dribble. Can someone P.M. and sum it up in a few sentences.

[HighRadArt]

Did Greg say how old he is? I find it hard to believe an adult would write that much malarkey and not actually address anything ( unless he was running for office).

[jaybuck43]

Claims to be 44.

[Mystafo]

Hmm....m'kay, that was a whole bunch of reading for nothing. The big bold font and huge posts reminds me of samco1. On the notepad you go, Greg

[Boboset]

That's the wrong approach, Greg.

 

Did you complete the sale for this restored Avengers 57 to a board member? Did they pay you? If they paid you, did you refund their money?

 

In PM's I told you to be direct and concise.

 

According to his profile, he's in sales and marketing. I'd say that shows in his approach to his response.

 

A lot less text with none of the unnecessary graphics and text formatting (bells and whistles) would have gone over a whole lot better.

 

 

The right answer was about 5 words.

 

"Sorry. Missed it. Refund sent."