General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Iceman399]

 

I wholeheartedly agree: Simple is better.

 

I also promised a conclusion to my earlier reply, and that is what now follows:

 

Restoration isn't easily recognized. If one doesn't have experience with the process or what the of signs of it may be, restoration could be overlooked all-together. One can't see a thing for what it is, if they've never seen, heard, or seen and heard of it before. CGC notes that anyone, from the novice to an

experienced collector, can miss restoration. That is why they screen for it.

 

Including AVENGERS #57, I own fewer than a dozen Silver Age comic books, and none of them slabbed. I'd estimate that 90% of my collection is late Bronze Age to Modern present day. My experience with slabbed, CGC-graded books is minimal; I'd love to have much more than I do, and if I could, I'd dive head-first into the waters of the comics grading world. Having a book graded and slabbed is rational, practical, and financially sound; it makes sense, and there's a very real 'Cool Factor' to it as well.

 

I won THE AVENGERS #57 in an eBay auction about three years ago, from a Seller who does a lot of business on the site and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books. While I am still endeavoring to find that sellers information, I will tell you that that Auction was fiercely competitive, the book brought tons of interest, and I was stoked when I won. I still paid a pretty penny for the book, I assure you. There was no mention of any restoration work having been done to the comic, and as far as I've been concerned ever since, I bought what I paid for.

 

My decision to sell the book, and the other Avengers comics I had just begun to post to the Thread, was based on the simple fact that I needed to make some cash. I really didn't want to part with #57 at all; I always believed it to be one of my best books, but I had to let it go.

 

That said, I wanted to ensure I was as accurate as possible. Before beginning the Thread, I scanned the book's covers and took over a dozen photos of the inside pages, which I posted in an online photo album that can be found HERE.

 

(I invite everyone to take a moment and review the photos.)

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

And it was. All the information, from points raised and discussed with my friend who reviewed the book to the online photo album, was provided to the

Buyer for his review prior to any commitment. The comic was bought and sold in complete good faith.

 

(Had it not sold as quickly, then the helpful and insightful comments and the question of possible restoration would have been more than enough for me to remove the book from the Thread. )

 

The Buyer, a gentleman whom I've previously sold books to, wanted the sale to remain anonymous. I had no problem honoring his request, nor did I foresee any problems by doing so.

 

None of the resulting discussion is his fault at all; however, had the sale not been anonymous, direct private communication with the Buyer would have been possible and questions, like whether or not the Buyer really even exists, would not have arisen in the fertile grounds of imagination.

 

As they have, then if the consensus of the Forum is for me to provide proof of an actual Buyer, then I will ask them to identify themselves first. Like a journalist, I intend to everything I can to maintain the integrity of my transaction with the Buyer of #57. However, as Mr Spock would say, "The Good of the Many..." and I concur, and will take action appropriately.

 

Moving on:

 

Knowledge falls into three categories: The Things We Know, The Things We Know We Don't Know, and The Things We Don't Know That We Don't Know.

 

Everything I both knew and didn't know about AVENGERS #57 was fully disclosed at time of sale. The book is as it was when I became its owner; what I know of its past comes only from what I was told. I don't know if the seller I first bought from knew that this might be a restored book, but as a very popular eBay seller with great ratings and stellar sales, I had no reason at that time to doubt any claims they made.

 

The problems with AVENGERS #57, its likely restorations, come from beyond my practical experience. They are things I didn't know that I didn't know. As the current seller, I completely accept responsibility for the item and for resolving the sale with the Buyer. And because it would be possible for any one of us to sell, in good faith, a book that might potentially be restored, I fully support any and all discussion and education on this matter; talking about this subject in a public, open forum is good and necessary and relevant.

 

But the discussion has its proper bounds, too. Suggestions of subterfuge, deceit, or any kind of intentional ill will, when unsubstantiated, have no place in an environment built upon a foundation of good faith.

 

I think I've answered all that I can answer: The Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How's of the matter have been addressed.

 

The problem, or misfortune, is not with my posting THE AVENGERS #57. Given that the likelihood of it being restored is high, the misfortune is mine alone; I paid good money for the sucker a few years back.

 

For the Community here, I see the posting of AVENGERS #57 for what it could have been, and what it still can be:

 

An Opportunity to inform and to educate others like myself, and many of you, who aren't familiar with restoration, so that come tomorrow or some other day down the road, one of us doesn't spend more hard-earned money on a book we my otherwise have decided against.

 

Therefore:

 

At this time, I personally don't have the means to submit #57 for a proper, professional restoration screening. However, if any one who is reading this does, and would like to commit to submitting the book to CGC for screening and, when completed, to share CGC's screening results with the Message Board Community, then I will hand over my copy of THE AVENGERS #57 to you, for free, in good faith, and on your word of fulfilling the obligation.

 

First here on the Discussion Thread gets the Win.

 

 

 

You can't give the book away unless you have made the purchaser whole again and refunded their money in full. If you have not done this they have a lien over the goods.

 

I only get the win not the book. He said he sold it to his "anonymous" friend that buys his books all the time, but he can't do anything that its restored. Sucks to be his friend.

 

I am pretty sure he has just given the book away to you if you agree to pay slabbing fees and then disclose the restoration notes. and I know for a FACT he has not refunded the original purchaser.

 

Also on the claim that he did not have enough time to take the book down. He posted it for sale at 12:52, at 01:08 I sent him a pm raising my concerns that it was restored to which he replied at 01:24am but it was not changed to being sold until 02:28 am.

 

So reconvene in 6 months when the book is back in hand

[The-Collector]

I have also just confirmed that the "take it" in pm was at 02:25 and he was specifically asked via by the purchaser at 01:44 if it was restored and responded to that inquiry at 1:50. So he knew about the restoration concerns before the sale, was asked about it and did not disclose, and then allowed payment to be completed, and now has spent the money and can't/won't refund.

 

See my PMs below. I guess I could have been more forceful in the first instance but I wanted to air my concerns in private and gently so as not to offend. In the past when I have done this with other boardies the immediate response was to pull the book and apologize profusely.

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2015 by The-Collector

[The-Collector]

Also 5000 posts! Woot!

[RockMyAmadeus]

[The-Collector]

Sorry had to edit above. Take it was 2:25am and response to inquiry about restoration was 01:50, in any event both occurred after he had responded to my question about restoration.

[slym2none]

This... this is the Thursday-'Friday' thread!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Ryan.]

So the seller has both the money and the book?

[crassus]

Knowledge falls into three categories: The Things We Know, The Things We Know We Don't Know, and The Things We Don't Know That We Don't Know.

 

You know you are in trouble when he starts quoting Donald Rumsfeld.

[oakman29]

Also 5000 posts! Woot!

 

Noob!

[HarveySwick]

 

 

[awakeintheashes]

 

I wholeheartedly agree: Simple is better.

 

I also promised a conclusion to my earlier reply, and that is what now follows:

 

Restoration isn't easily recognized. If one doesn't have experience with the process or what the of signs of it may be, restoration could be overlooked all-together. One can't see a thing for what it is, if they've never seen, heard, or seen and heard of it before. CGC notes that anyone, from the novice to an

experienced collector, can miss restoration. That is why they screen for it.

 

Including AVENGERS #57, I own fewer than a dozen Silver Age comic books, and none of them slabbed. I'd estimate that 90% of my collection is late Bronze Age to Modern present day. My experience with slabbed, CGC-graded books is minimal; I'd love to have much more than I do, and if I could, I'd dive head-first into the waters of the comics grading world. Having a book graded and slabbed is rational, practical, and financially sound; it makes sense, and there's a very real 'Cool Factor' to it as well.

 

I won THE AVENGERS #57 in an eBay auction about three years ago, from a Seller who does a lot of business on the site and moves a lot of Silver and Bronze books. While I am still endeavoring to find that sellers information, I will tell you that that Auction was fiercely competitive, the book brought tons of interest, and I was stoked when I won. I still paid a pretty penny for the book, I assure you. There was no mention of any restoration work having been done to the comic, and as far as I've been concerned ever since, I bought what I paid for.

 

My decision to sell the book, and the other Avengers comics I had just begun to post to the Thread, was based on the simple fact that I needed to make some cash. I really didn't want to part with #57 at all; I always believed it to be one of my best books, but I had to let it go.

 

That said, I wanted to ensure I was as accurate as possible. Before beginning the Thread, I scanned the book's covers and took over a dozen photos of the inside pages, which I posted in an online photo album that can be found HERE.

 

(I invite everyone to take a moment and review the photos.)

 

I then contacted a fellow Forum member whom I've grown to respect, and asked him to take a look at them all and then to give me his impression. Because I don't have a ton of experience with older comics, I was concerned that my grading might be off, and I really wanted a second, well-informed opinion.

 

If there's a need, and with the permission of the other Member who reviewed #57 on my behalf, I will be happy to post the entirety of our conversation here. Please share your opinion on the matter, and I'll post as per consensus request.

 

In any event, as a result of that private discussion, and from what I knew of the book from my own purchase of it, I sold AVENGERS #57 for what I believed it to be: a great copy of an awesome Silver Age key, presenting it as accurately as I could, with an album of photos at the ready in order to supply as much info as possible to any interested buyer.

 

And it was. All the information, from points raised and discussed with my friend who reviewed the book to the online photo album, was provided to the

Buyer for his review prior to any commitment. The comic was bought and sold in complete good faith.

 

(Had it not sold as quickly, then the helpful and insightful comments and the question of possible restoration would have been more than enough for me to remove the book from the Thread. )

 

The Buyer, a gentleman whom I've previously sold books to, wanted the sale to remain anonymous. I had no problem honoring his request, nor did I foresee any problems by doing so.

 

None of the resulting discussion is his fault at all; however, had the sale not been anonymous, direct private communication with the Buyer would have been possible and questions, like whether or not the Buyer really even exists, would not have arisen in the fertile grounds of imagination.

 

As they have, then if the consensus of the Forum is for me to provide proof of an actual Buyer, then I will ask them to identify themselves first. Like a journalist, I intend to everything I can to maintain the integrity of my transaction with the Buyer of #57. However, as Mr Spock would say, "The Good of the Many..." and I concur, and will take action appropriately.

 

Moving on:

 

Knowledge falls into three categories: The Things We Know, The Things We Know We Don't Know, and The Things We Don't Know That We Don't Know.

 

Everything I both knew and didn't know about AVENGERS #57 was fully disclosed at time of sale. The book is as it was when I became its owner; what I know of its past comes only from what I was told. I don't know if the seller I first bought from knew that this might be a restored book, but as a very popular eBay seller with great ratings and stellar sales, I had no reason at that time to doubt any claims they made.

 

The problems with AVENGERS #57, its likely restorations, come from beyond my practical experience. They are things I didn't know that I didn't know. As the current seller, I completely accept responsibility for the item and for resolving the sale with the Buyer. And because it would be possible for any one of us to sell, in good faith, a book that might potentially be restored, I fully support any and all discussion and education on this matter; talking about this subject in a public, open forum is good and necessary and relevant.

 

But the discussion has its proper bounds, too. Suggestions of subterfuge, deceit, or any kind of intentional ill will, when unsubstantiated, have no place in an environment built upon a foundation of good faith.

 

I think I've answered all that I can answer: The Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How's of the matter have been addressed.

 

The problem, or misfortune, is not with my posting THE AVENGERS #57. Given that the likelihood of it being restored is high, the misfortune is mine alone; I paid good money for the sucker a few years back.

 

For the Community here, I see the posting of AVENGERS #57 for what it could have been, and what it still can be:

 

An Opportunity to inform and to educate others like myself, and many of you, who aren't familiar with restoration, so that come tomorrow or some other day down the road, one of us doesn't spend more hard-earned money on a book we my otherwise have decided against.

 

Therefore:

 

At this time, I personally don't have the means to submit #57 for a proper, professional restoration screening. However, if any one who is reading this does, and would like to commit to submitting the book to CGC for screening and, when completed, to share CGC's screening results with the Message Board Community, then I will hand over my copy of THE AVENGERS #57 to you, for free, in good faith, and on your word of fulfilling the obligation.

 

First here on the Discussion Thread gets the Win.

 

 

[seanfingh]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[wombat]

Do we know who the buyer is? I hope like hell they have already opened up a paypal claim.

[AJD]

A few months back I was kidding in a PM with another boardie that I was doing a deal with that I was going to head to the PL thread with the following plan:

 

 

See you in the PL discussion thread.

 

I have it all planned. Here's how it goes down.

 

Step 1: I'll talk in vague generalities at first, leaving it as a 'hypothetical' and omitting a key piece of data.

 

Step 2: the mob will demand to know more and I'll dribble out incomplete information that has them on my side and ready to get the torches and pitchforks when I finally out you

 

Step 3: I'll get tortured by one or two of said mob for 48 hours into revealing more detail that suggests that there might be two sides to the story

 

Step 4: you'll turn up and post the PMs and the mob will turn on me

 

Step 5: walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext

 

Step 6: walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext walloftext

 

Step 7: I change my username to DJA in the hope that no-one will notice

 

Step 8: mob burns me at the stake anyway

 

Brilliant!

 

Sadly, it seems that my business plan has been copied, although in a more efficient version that goes straight to step 5.

[Rommin]

...why is it always Avengers 57?

[The-Collector]

Also 5000 posts! Woot!

 

Noob!

 

[Mr Sneeze]

The book looks like it's suffering from amateur destruction not restoration. To bad as it was probably a decent mid grade book.

 

Also, is the seller saying that because he was burned on this book that that makes it OK to burn the buyer?

[The-Collector]

Do we know who the buyer is? I hope like hell they have already opened up a paypal claim.

 

Buyer has asked to remain anonymous.

[Iceman399]

The book looks like it's suffering from amateur destruction not restoration. To bad as it was probably a decent mid grade book.

 

Also, is the seller saying that because he was burned on this book that that makes it OK to burn the buyer?

 

Ya he didn't know when he bought it from the seller on ebay a while back, so when he KNEW about it, still sold it, he closed his eyes, opened his hand and said pay me.

[Mark 1]

The book looks like it's suffering from amateur destruction not restoration. To bad as it was probably a decent mid grade book.

 

Also, is the seller saying that because he was burned on this book that that makes it OK to burn the buyer?

 

Ya he didn't know when he bought it from the seller on ebay a while back, so when he KNEW about it, still sold it, he closed his eyes, opened his hand and said pay me.

 

I haven't kept up with this situation since the guys sales thread was closed. I gather he turned out to be a scammer.

 

Some people might not like me in this forum but I guarantee I would never screw anyone like these guys.

 

I hope the buyer gets his money back no questions asked. And to the seller....your tactics are quite questionable.