Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Bird]

11 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

I don't think it was meant as a compliment, as a matter of fact I'm 100% sure it was not.

I don't like his work in general and I find his superhero work to be awful.

This is why Baskin-Robbins makes 31 flavors 

I understood how YOU meant it, but there is some truth which I was acknowledging. He has an incredible skill to place you into the book and story immediately and thoroughly. If some misunderstand that as being derivative I cannot change that, only explain the difference.

[Lazyboy]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

Aside from Watchmen, Miracleman and Top ten I find Alan Moore's stuff to be annoying.  It's 'look how clever I am' stuff.

Even Watchmen he should have discarded all that pirate nonsense.  He was trying to be clever.

 Wow.

[Prince Namor]

1 minute ago, Ken Aldred said:

It was supposed to have some symbolism, as in Moby , I believe?   I found it boring and forgettable.

I always skip those parts when I re-read it.

[Lazyboy]

1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

I always skip those parts when I re-read it.

What is wrong with you guys?

[Bird]

Just now, Chuck Gower said:

I always skip those parts when I re-read it.

Those parts of Moby had two goals...make you as bored as the sailors in the ship and to explain every little detail so that when the whale appears the reader understands the danger in shooting the harpoon, or whatever else is happening. Yes, it was dreadful but has a genius. The movie Boogie Nights doe sthis as well...you start of happy and awesome and porno and cocaine are great but as that changes the viewer starts to feel dirty and wasted just like the characters.

I am not a great fan of either of those but I see the achievement in mirroring the story with the viewer's experience.

[Ken Aldred]

2 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

What is wrong with you guys?

I was very glad when Black Freighter was omitted from Zack Snyder's excellent film adaptation.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[Bird]

5 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

I was very glad when Black Freighter was omitted from Zack Snyder's excellent film adaptation.

Me too, and although I didn't like it when I read Watchmen (get away from this stuff, who cares, I want to see Oxymandias and Rorschach!) I see now why it is included. The sailor is Oxymandias, driven mad through his desire for justice until he is willing to do the unthinkable.

 

[kav]

The pirate stuff had absolutely nothing to do with the story.   It did not move the plot forward one iota.   It was a side story and a boring one at that.   It could just as well have been a Little Lulu story.  Now some could say 'golly but the symbolism was awesome' well gee the thing about symbolism is you can see whatever you want in it.  Even if the symbolism actually meant something-so what?  Did it move the plot forward?  No.  So what if it was some kind of neat logic puzzle to solve-puzzle books are separate from fiction.

[Lazyboy]

1 minute ago, Ken Aldred said:

I was very glad when it was omitted from Zack Snyder's excellent film adaptation.

That is a bit different because it really doesn't work in film.

My criticisms of the movie remain the same as what I posted years ago after I saw it for the first time.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Bird said:

Me too, and although I didn't like it when I read Watchmen (get away from this stuff, who cares, I want to see Oxymandias and Rorschach!) I see now why it is included. The sailor is Oxymandias, driven mad through his desire for justice until he is willing to do the unthinkable.

 

But Ozymandius did not want justice or revenge-he wanted an end to war.  This is what I mean about seeing what you want in symbolism.

[Prince Namor]

2 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

That is a bit different because it really doesn't work in film.

My criticisms of the movie remain the same as what I posted years ago after I saw it for the first time.

I know writers always hate when their material gets changed, but I still think it's one of the top 5 best superhero movies ever made.

[ComicConnoisseur]

32 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

Being British and a nerd with little interest in sports, I would guess that's an American Football or Baseball reference?

Baseball . He played for the Baltimore Orioles most consecutive games ever. The Iron-Man of baseball.

The record of playing in 2,632 consecutive games over more than 16 years is held by Cal Ripken, Jr. of the Baltimore Orioles. Ripken surpassed Lou Gehrig of the New York Yankees, whose record of 2,130 consecutive games had stood for 56 years.

Edited May 11, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[SteppinRazor]

1 hour ago, kav said:

 This is what I mean about seeing what you want in symbolism.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  But yeah, Ozymandius is symbolized hubris from Shelley's poem, I don't see much reflective of Moby in his character.  I think a better argument could be made for Rorshach being Ahab.

Edited May 11, 2017 by SteppinRazor

[Bird]

3 minutes ago, SteppinRazor said:

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  But yeah, Ozymandius is symbolized hubris from Shelley's poem, I don't see much reflective of Moby in his character.  I think a better argument could be made for Rorshach being Ahab.

I was not saying that Oz is related to Moby . Oz is the guy in the black freighter bit. The Black freighter is a clue as to who is behind the story in Watchmen proper.

[SteppinRazor]

Ah, I misunderstood.  Sorry

[Bird]

1 minute ago, SteppinRazor said:

Ah, I misunderstood.  Sorry

Lots of sailors in there. If misunderstood, then I could have been clearer!

[Lazyboy]

3 minutes ago, kav said:

But Ozymandius did not want justice or revenge-he wanted an end to war.  This is what I mean about seeing what you want in symbolism.

It's not about justice or revenge or war or peace, it's about the pavement on the road to hell.

As I've posted before, this:

is probably the most referenced and best known panel, but this:

should be.

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

I know writers always hate when their material gets changed, but I still think it's one of the top 5 best superhero movies ever made.

Moore doesn't care about the movie regardless of any changes made, but I do. Many - maybe even most, but definitely not all - of the scenes in the movie were very well done, but that doesn't change the fact that the changes between the comic and the movie destroyed the story.

How a "superhero movie" is defined would affect exactly how I rank Watchmen, but it wouldn't be top 5 on my list.

[Prince Namor]

14 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Moore doesn't care about the movie regardless of any changes made, but I do. Many - maybe even most, but definitely not all - of the scenes in the movie were very well done, but that doesn't change the fact that the changes between the comic and the movie destroyed the story.

What about the movies story do you feel was destroyed? Or do you mean 'destroyed' as in the relation to the comic story?

Quote

How a "superhero movie" is defined would affect exactly how I rank Watchmen, but it wouldn't be top 5 on my list.

I would define it as one having to do with superheroes, which Watchmen has, and I'm sure there are many who would agree with you. I don't, but of course it's all just personal preference. 

Of course, many here think 'Civil War' is the greatest superhero movie ever made and... ugh, I just found that to be garabage. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Chuck Gower

[chrisco37]

21 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

I think Mark Waid is the Cal Ripken Jr. of comics... not flashy, not a showoff, not necessarily spectacular, but solid, steady and there for every game over a long period of time.

 

Pretty good comparison there.  

Waid is a guy you can count on.  You can tell he has a great affinity for the characters and their histories.  I thought his FF run with Weiringo was the best stuff since Byrne was on the title.