Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Ken Aldred]

28 minutes ago, kav said:

anyone have a list of all the EC williamson/frazetta books?

First of all, you'll want to have a look at the later issues of Weird Science, Weird Fantasy, and Weird Science-Fantasy, for stories with Williamson art inked by Frazetta, Torres and / or Krenkel.  

[batman_fan]

I know my reasons for stopping purchasing new comics are:

1.  Too many re-boots, just can't keep up with it anymore.  Maybe that would be different if some of my other reasons didn't exist.

2.  Don't care for the artwork.  I find most of the modern books to have unappealing artwork versus my personal taste.

3.  Stories aren't interesting to me

4.  Cost,  I would rather buy an older book versus 4 to 5 new books

 

[FineCollector]

Marvel has never figured out how to develop legacy characters like DC.  The closest they ever came to it was putting Jim Rhodes in the Iron Man armor, but the book was really only ever about Tony Stark.   They've trained readers to believe that the guy who started the job is the best and only one who can do it, so that's what fans expect.  Only Tony Stark can beat the Mandarin, only Steve Rogers can live up to the expectations of being Captain America, 

DC does it differently.  They know you can't touch the big three, but outside of that?  They've had multiple Flashes, Green Lanterns, Robins, Spectres, Dr Fates, Supergirls, Superboys, Atoms, Firestorms, Manhunters, Starmans, Blue Beetles, Batgirls, Batwomen... even the villains have turned over: Icicle, Killer Frost, Psycho-Pirate, Ragdoll, Trickster, Mongul.  DC makes you get used to change, so readers accept change.

The problem as I see it is Marvel trying to be something they're not.  The sooner they understand who and what they are, the better off they'll be.

[Lazyboy]

50 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Ah, I see. So as long as the retread is justified in your eyes it's okay. I'll be sure to ask from now on. 

 It has nothing to do with justification or me. I'm not calling She-Hulk or Spider-Woman great or unique characters.

Monica Rambeau was a unique character with no connection to Mar-Vell. The only reason she was given the "Captain Marvel" name is because of stupid IP garbage.

For the same reason, Marvel felt they had to create She-Hulk and Spider-Woman. They weren't created to increase diversity (though they obviously did), to replace Hulk and Spidey (even temporarily) or even to capitalize on the popularity of Marvel's top characters (which they failed to do).

Oh, and this also just happens to be the same reason we don't see great, truly unique new characters from Marvel anymore.

50 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

And that means... Cindy Moon (Silk) is a new character. And Riri Williams as the new Iron Man. 

New unique individual character replacing the old... wait I thought that's what the WE around here was mad about. 

How does putting somebody else in the Iron Man armor make them unique?

50 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Uhh... yes they are. 

People are complaining about a huge number of Marvel's most popular characters being replaced within a short time period and with significant overlap. Lame, derivative characters created just to have different skin color and/or genitalia are bad enough, but when they combine a bunch of them with the removal (even if we know it's temporary) of the established characters they're based on, we get this thread.

Of course, character use is only one of the problems people have with the current Marvel, despite it being the focus here.

 

[1950's war comics]

22 hours ago, kav said:

NKOTB4EVA

 I got it!

I don't get it

[Prince Namor]

On 5/8/2017 at 7:47 AM, kav said:

I don't see folks agreeing with you here on your SJW rants.

Politics. Reported. 

[Prince Namor]

On 5/8/2017 at 9:59 AM, batman_fan said:

I know my reasons for stopping purchasing new comics are:

1.  Too many re-boots, just can't keep up with it anymore.  Maybe that would be different if some of my other reasons didn't exist.

2.  Don't care for the artwork.  I find most of the modern books to have unappealing artwork versus my personal taste.

3.  Stories aren't interesting to me

4.  Cost,  I would rather buy an older book versus 4 to 5 new books

 

The one consistent thing I hear from people on not picking up moderns is the artwork. 

As someone who sees John Romita Sr. as THE greatest sequential art comic book artist ever, I can certainly understand where anyone who grew up in the 60's and 70's, or even the 80's, must see comic art now as somewhat baffling. 

[Prince Namor]

On 5/8/2017 at 7:47 AM, kav said:

I don't see folks agreeing with you here on your SJW rants.

And there are plenty of people here who don't see it as political, but rather as the way I see it, which is business as usual for Marvel  

YOU are the one making it political. YOU are the one who keeps trying to turn it into a political discussion.

But since you have an IN here, nothing will be done about it. 

[GM8]

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/marvel-comics-likely-cancelling-30-titles

 

Great Lakes?  Comeon.  smh

[drotto]

9 minutes ago, GM8 said:

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/marvel-comics-likely-cancelling-30-titles

 

Great Lakes?  Comeon.  smh

The list just proves again who is buying floppies.  Most of the titles listed in that article are newer characters, or teams have members that are heavily newer characters.  Not that any books are selling well in historical perspective.  It just proves that Marvel is not expanding their base as they are so clearly trying to accomplish. 

[Prince Namor]

On 5/7/2017 at 9:09 PM, Lazyboy said:

 It has nothing to do with justification or me. I'm not calling She-Hulk or Spider-Woman great or unique characters.

Monica Rambeau was a unique character with no connection to Mar-Vell. The only reason she was given the "Captain Marvel" name is because of stupid IP garbage.

For the same reason, Marvel felt they had to create She-Hulk and Spider-Woman. They weren't created to increase diversity (though they obviously did), to replace Hulk and Spidey (even temporarily) or even to capitalize on the popularity of Marvel's top characters (which they failed to do).

Oh, and this also just happens to be the same reason we don't see great, truly unique new characters from Marvel anymore.

How does putting somebody else in the Iron Man armor make them unique?

Simple. If someone creates a character, in comics OR movies, based on a black female who is a skilled inventor and engineer, that creates a Mecha Suit using spare parts to end up fighting crime.... Marvel can block that and say, that's OUR idea, we HAVE that character. There are pitches made everyday to different companies to sell superhero ideas, some of which might end up one day being good enough to topple some of the one's we have today.

Marvel's taking some of those ideas as their own, and giving them immediate name recognition by tying them to an existing character. It's about product. And ownership of ideas. And maximizing those ideas to reach a wider audience.

On 5/7/2017 at 9:09 PM, Lazyboy said:

People are complaining about a huge number of Marvel's most popular characters being replaced within a short time period and with significant overlap. Lame, derivative characters created just to have different skin color and/or genitalia are bad enough, but when they combine a bunch of them with the removal (even if we know it's temporary) of the established characters they're based on, we get this thread.

Of course, character use is only one of the problems people have with the current Marvel, despite it being the focus here.

 

What is it about Monica Rameau that you find to be so amazing? And how much have you read about Riri Williams to make the assumption that she isn't?

There's so much assumption and misinformation on the part of so many here, that don't even READ these books, that I have a hard time taking any of the criticism's seriously. As stated previously, the readers I have in my store that follow Thor, STILL follow Thor and are very much entertained by what has happened in the book. Jane Foster has been around for as long as Thor has in the Marvel Universe, is it REALLY such a big stretch to think she could be utilized like this? They did a What If issue about it TWO DECADES ago.

Other than that, we've had what... Riri become the new Iron Man temporarily and.... Sam Wilson become Captain America, which c'mon, was THAT really a big surprise? He'd already filled in for him before as the Falcon, if he's not Cap, who BETTER to take his place temporarily? And that's been almost three years. Thor has been almost 3 years.

Hulk? No one has ever been the Hulk before? Give me a break, happened a number of times, with switching bodies or gaining power through gamma radiation. But have it be an asian kid and suddenly it's a political issue? Thunderbolt Ross is the Red Hulk, and no one bats an eye, but an Asian kid is Hulk??? Holy it's a cultural revolution.

Do we count Miles Morales? That's going on 6 years. And he didn't even replace Spidey. Spider-Gwen is another universe. 

Wolverine's last series was a sales dud - X23 has been consistently picking up sales as the book continues, almost unheard of for a Marvel title. She's another female who... UNSURPRISINGLY replaced Wolverine while he's 'dead', but was it because she's a FEMALE or because she's been around for 13 YEARS and seems like the obvious character to take up the position? Would anyone have cared or, worse, even read the comic, if it'd been Sabertooth who took over? How creative is THAT?

Most of these storylines seem to make sense to me, in terms of what Marvel has ALWAYS done, ESPECIALLY if you're reading the books. The fact that they've switched it up, shouldn't be frowned upon, but applauded. Surprise me for once, thank you. Talking about it here makes me want to read a few of them at this point....

How many are you reading?

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, drotto said:

The list just proves again who is buying floppies.  Most of the titles listed in that article are newer characters, or teams have members that are heavily newer characters.  Not that any books are selling well in historical perspective.  It just proves that Marvel is not expanding their base as they are so clearly trying to accomplish. 

Dr. Strange

Man-Thing

Hawkeye

Elektra

Silver Surfer

Thunderbolts

Kingpin

Rocket Racoon

Power Man & Iron Fist

Bullseye

Star-Lord

Wasp

Hellcat

Ultimates

Spidey 2099

World of Wakanda (Black Panther)

Of the 28 titles listed as cancelled or being cancelled, 16, or more than half appear to be either classic or long established characters.

[Prince Namor]

On 5/7/2017 at 3:59 PM, kav said:

old vs new:

I'm not sure this would actually be a good example.

You're basically saying that more words = better comics. There's actually MORE going on in the story in the example you're using as 'bad'.

Based upon what you're trying to say here, that would mean, this:

 

Is better than THIS:

 

And it's just NOT.

[FineCollector]

13 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Simple. If someone creates a character, in comics OR movies, based on a black female who is a skilled inventor and engineer, that creates a Mecha Suit using spare parts to end up fighting crime.... Marvel can block that and say, that's OUR idea, we HAVE that character. There are pitches made everyday to different companies to sell superhero ideas, some of which might end up one day being good enough to topple some of the one's we have today.

Marvel's taking some of those ideas as their own, and giving them immediate name recognition by tying them to an existing character. It's about product. And ownership of ideas. And maximizing those ideas to reach a wider audience.

I liked Riri better when she was called Natasha Irons...

[ComicConnoisseur]

13 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

I don't get it

NKOTB4EVA means

New Kids on the Block forever.

I know because my younger sister use to have all their posters on her wall in the 1990s.

They stayed there for years,until much too my parents chagrin she tore them down and replaced them with Marilyn Manson posters!

[ComicConnoisseur]

13 minutes ago, FineCollector said:

I liked Riri better when she was called Natasha Irons...

They should have just called her Iron Woman or Iron Girl. Why they call her Iron Man I don't know?

 

25 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Dr. Strange

Man-Thing

Hawkeye

Elektra

Silver Surfer

Thunderbolts

Kingpin

Rocket Racoon

Power Man & Iron Fist

Bullseye

Star-Lord

Wasp

Hellcat

Ultimates

Spidey 2099

World of Wakanda (Black Panther)

Of the 28 titles listed as cancelled or being cancelled, 16, or more than half appear to be either classic or long established characters.

So the Marvel Implosion! Good job that Editor in Chief  Alex Alonso did. I am pretty sure his days as editor in chief of Marvel are numbered.

 

[Prince Namor]

17 minutes ago, FineCollector said:

I liked Riri better when she was called Natasha Irons...

Not sure specifically how you mean that, but taking a positive spin on it from my perspective...

Yes, Marvel and DC have copied each other since the start of comics, and this shows yet another example that something like this (a non White Male character taking over for the established character) isn't something born of a new age of politics, but rather something that's been going on for some time. 

She became Steel in 2003, almost 10 years after she was introduced as a character. 

[drotto]

23 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Dr. Strange

Man-Thing

Hawkeye

Elektra

Silver Surfer

Thunderbolts

Kingpin

Rocket Racoon

Power Man & Iron Fist

Bullseye

Star-Lord

Wasp

Hellcat

Ultimates

Spidey 2099

World of Wakanda (Black Panther)

Of the 28 titles listed as cancelled or being cancelled, 16, or more than half appear to be either classic or long established characters.

I will give you a few of these but, I would not call any of them (except maybe Dr. Strange) top tier characters.  Some of the ones you listed are not the original like Hawkeye and Wasp, both are replacements.  Most of the others are C and D list characters that have multiple failed solo titles already to their credit, for instance Black Panther, Spidey 2099, Electra, Rocket, Power Man, Star Lord, etc.  I am not sure how Marvel is picking the people to try in solo books, but it seems that there are more worthy candidates.  Plus Marvel has always done better with team books.  About half the characters on that list however are less then 5 years old and many were gimmick characters that had momentary success and have quickly worn out their welcome.

 

[Prince Namor]

3 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

They should have just called her Iron Woman or Iron Girl. Why they call her Iron Man I don't know?

Actually her code code name is Ironheart. There's a reason she's currently taking over for Stark, but the Marvel business reason is to establish the character. 

3 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

So the Marvel Implosion! Good job that Editor in Chief  Alex Alonso did. I am pretty sure his days as editor in chief of Marvel are numbered.

 

Quesada's list is monsterous as well.

 

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Quesada's list is monsterous as well.

At least Joe Q treated the Fantastic Four and X-Men quite decent, under Alonso's watch they got buried.