prez Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I wonder if this will result to CGC refusing to grade books associated to Jim Starlin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofthetotem Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Now that would be extra special covered in Tabasco sauce dumb with a bedazzled capital "D". porcupine48 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 hour ago, topofthetotem said: Its too bad it got to this point. As an outsider looking in it seemed like a pretty east fix from the beginning but I'm sure that has now gone the way of the dodo. Pity! Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RockMyAmadeus Posted May 17, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2017 4 hours ago, revat said: and what about CGC SS fans who are also Starlin fans? I don't use facilitators too much (partly because of the added cost), but mostly because I actually like getting my personal collection books signed in person, chatting with them about the book (many times not a popular or high grade book) often with a CGC SS both to encapsulate for preservation, and possibly for future (far in the future) sale. I've got a stack of maybe 3 books I was hoping to get signed some day for CGC SS Starlin, if he would ever come to a con near me (which admittedly may never happen). None of them are 9.8's, none of them are worth more than $20 raw, and I'm not sure any of them could even be sold at a profit with CGC SS. But some people (a lot of people actually)( like bringing their own books (sometimes high grade or key, sometimes not) to a favorite creator, watching them sign it, chatting about it a bit, and then having that book slabbed as a happy preserved memory. I don't think that's so unreasonable or worthy of derision by creators or and especially not by other collectors. And I do understand that everyone has different stories and motivations for getting their books signed by creators, and often times (occasionally for me too) its profit, but to just automatically assume that of all the CGC SS people to the point of exclusion or discriminatory pricing...well I'm sorry its come to that, and I wish it didn't happen. But I also know it was most likely a few bad apples that ruin the bunch (maybe with a bit of misinformation sprinkled in??). Personally (and I don't think anyone will listen to me), I would set this type of policy: 1st X sigs are free. Then $Y per comic after that, limited to Z additional comics. NO MORE THAN TWO COPIES OF ANY GIVEN ISSUE. Will some people still abuse it? Yes (try not to be those people), but I think its mostly fair and I don't think very few TRUE FANS will leave the table disappointed (yes I do get that there are some TRUE fans who want 200 CGC SS copies of Dreadstar 2), but they'll just have to keep getting in line again or arrange a private signing. If I could like this post 1,000 times, I would. This is exactly where I'm at. Yes, I sell sig series books. Yes, getting books slabbed is expensive. Yes, I do it myself, along with a select few people who help me, and I help them. Yes, I keep some of the books. Yes, I appreciate Sam, Balent, and the rest of the (old and new) SS crew at CGC. No, the creator had nothing to do with my Warlock #9 9.8 being a 9.8. No, the creator does not deserve, and did not earn, any "profit" I may have made from selling my high grade SS books (and really...unless you're privy to someone's financials, that's an awful ballsy, arrogant thing to presume about others.) Conversely, no, the creator does not owe me anything if I submit "duds." No, the creator does not have to sign anything. Yes, the creator can charge whatever he wants, for any reason. Yes, I have the right to tell them they're hurting themselves by making irrational, uninformed business decisions, and alienating a portion of their fanbase by believing things that aren't true. Yes, I make sure I pay creators, or, at a minimum, donate to Heroes on their behalf. Yes, I've donated quite a bit to Heroes in the last several years. No, what I've donated is none of your business. Yes, I'm happy to abide by any policy No, I don't appreciate people like J. Scott Campbell treating me with contempt and disrespect by telling me to my face that I'm not a fan because I get books slabbed. Who the hell does he think he is? These are people, not gods. And most of them would say the same thing. mysterio, porcupine48, fullerjason and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteppinRazor Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, 1Cool said: I feel like there is way more meat on his calling CGC a bunch of scam artist and all of us a bunch of dupes then him not getting someone's name from CGC or stiffed out of a few bucks. The more and more I look at it from various angles the worse he looks. I have to agree. This is definitely a disproportional response. Though not uncommon these days Edited May 17, 2017 by SteppinRazor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeypost Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SteppinRazor said: I have to agree. This is definitely a disproportional response. Though not uncommon these days I agree. But if CGC had practiced what they preached about how artists should be handled, this would have never happened. As I stated earlier, unless someone steps up big time, any chance of future work with Mr. Starlin will do the way of the dodo. Edited May 17, 2017 by joeypost F For Fake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteppinRazor Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, joeypost said: I agree. But if CGC had practiced what they preached about how artists should be handled, this would have never happened. As I stated earlier, unless someone steps up big time, any chance of future work with Mr. Starlin will to the way of the dodo. Yeah, definitely could;ve been handled better (though paying him would have been a very nice gesture, not required to resolve the situation. Any attempt to help him, within stated parameters, would've done the job, unless as speculated this has something to do with something else). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slym2none Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 On 5/15/2017 at 4:34 PM, Marwood & I said: They actually do that to mark territory, and it's usually an aggressive mark. As in, they will lock eyes on you & maintain eye contact while flinging the poo with their tail. That's a sign you are far too close to one of these dangerous beasts. *themoreyouknow.jif* -slym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 hours ago, prez said: Yeah, that sucks for collectors who has the yellow label OCD. However, I don't see why these fans can't still say "hi" and have a pleasant chat with him when they see him at a show. I know, life isn't fair. With all the great things that Jim Starlin has done for the hobby and the enjoyment he brought to us fans, I think he deserves a little bit of our respect and understanding. What "great things" has Jim Starlin done for the hobby? No doubt, he told some compelling stories, and had above-average art to go with them. Some of my favorites, in fact (his run on Surfer is the best thing he ever wrote.) And I'm not trying to be a jerk, here...I'm interested to know what "great things" Starlin has done. He created a lot of work, which he was paid for, and entertained a lot of people. But are those things "great for the hobby"? I consider Shooter's (or others, depending on whom you ask) advocacy of creator rights, particularly with regard to original artwork ownership, to be a great thing for the hobby. I consider Martin Goodman's willingness...crusty old curmudgeon that he was...to let Stan fool around with superheroes again in the early 60's to be a great thing. I consider Neal Adams' willingness to off Martin Goodman when advocating for creator rights to be a great thing. I consider the Heroes Initiative to be a great thing. I'm not sure, however, what Starlin has done that would be considered "great for the hobby." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Marwood & I Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, slym2none said: On 2017-5-15 at 9:34 PM, Marwood & I said: They actually do that to mark territory, and it's usually an aggressive mark. As in, they will lock eyes on you & maintain eye contact while flinging the poo with their tail. That's a sign you are far too close to one of these dangerous beasts. *themoreyouknow.jif* It just seemed appropriate to the thread Slym. Big beasts who are full of it and like to throw it around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slym2none Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 -slym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 hours ago, prez said: Man, these CGC fanboys need to grow some kahunas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prez Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: What "great things" has Jim Starlin done for the hobby? No doubt, he told some compelling stories, and had above-average art to go with them. Some of my favorites, in fact (his run on Surfer is the best thing he ever wrote.) And I'm not trying to be a jerk, here...I'm interested to know what "great things" Starlin has done. He created a lot of work, which he was paid for, and entertained a lot of people. But are those things "great for the hobby"? I consider Shooter's (or others, depending on whom you ask) advocacy of creator rights, particularly with regard to original artwork ownership, to be a great thing for the hobby. I consider Martin Goodman's willingness...crusty old curmudgeon that he was...to let Stan fool around with superheroes again in the early 60's to be a great thing. I consider Neal Adams' willingness to off Martin Goodman when advocating for creator rights to be a great thing. I consider the Heroes Initiative to be a great thing. I'm not sure, however, what Starlin has done that would be considered "great for the hobby." Man, I don't want to debate with you. You're nothing more than a keyboard warrior. Just to nip this in the bud, I am changing my initial comment to: Quote Yeah, that sucks for collectors who has the yellow label OCD. However, I don't see why these fans can't still say "hi" and have a pleasant chat with him when they see him at a show. I know, life isn't fair. With all the MEDIOCRE things that Jim Starlin has done for the hobby and the enjoyment he brought to us fans, I think he deserves a little bit of our respect and understanding. Happy? Logan510 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 2 hours ago, 1Cool said: "I would also appreciate it if this was noted on your website as well so my fans are not disappointed." Where does he want that info listed? Big banner in the SS description? A picture of Starlin with a big crossed out x mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, prez said: Man, I don't want to debate with you. You're nothing more than a keyboard warrior. Just to nip this in the bud, I am changing my initial comment to: Happy? Nothing more than a keyboard warrior...? Huh. And here I thought I was a suave, debonaire lady's man, too. Drat. However...I'll gently point out that if one doesn't want debate, one might not put comments out there that inspire it, no...? Jeffro. and slym2none 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prez Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, RockMyAmadeus said: Nothing more than a keyboard warrior...? Huh. And here I thought I was a suave, debonaire lady's man, too. Drat. However...I'll gently point out that if one doesn't want debate, one might not put comments out there that inspire it, no...? I'll debate with people just not with you. Now, leave me alone... Logan510 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterlogan2000 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said: I would also appreciate it if this was noted on your website as well so my fans are not disappointed. That's some good legal speak right there. I'm no lawyer, but I could have written up this drivel in 5 minutes. All this over 3 books and some questionable PR and Customer Service moves? I agree that Starlin should be able to sign what he wants, but this is a joke. "I'm sending you this cease and desist letter, but please do me a favor and provide me some free advertising on your website while denouncing your own product" I would really love to see a line form at his booth at his next show of a few dozen people asking him for CGC SS requests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 47 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said: What "great things" has Jim Starlin done for the hobby? No doubt, he told some compelling stories, and had above-average art to go with them. Some of my favorites, in fact (his run on Surfer is the best thing he ever wrote.) And I'm not trying to be a jerk, here...I'm interested to know what "great things" Starlin has done. He created a lot of work, which he was paid for, and entertained a lot of people. But are those things "great for the hobby"? I consider Shooter's (or others, depending on whom you ask) advocacy of creator rights, particularly with regard to original artwork ownership, to be a great thing for the hobby. I consider Martin Goodman's willingness...crusty old curmudgeon that he was...to let Stan fool around with superheroes again in the early 60's to be a great thing. I consider Neal Adams' willingness to off Martin Goodman when advocating for creator rights to be a great thing. I consider the Heroes Initiative to be a great thing. I'm not sure, however, what Starlin has done that would be considered "great for the hobby." Well...I would say that... what Starlin did was create some of the coolest comics of the mid to late 70's... books that many people hold very near and dear, for nostalgic reasons... they were special, and it resonated because of it. He did it at a time when the money to do it wasn't much, especially for a freelancer... $15-20 a page... adjusted for inflation about $1769 a month on the high end, BEFORE TAXES... He did it for the love of doing comics, and I think that shows through, especially in that early work. And I think that was great for comics. Logan510 and Timmay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said: Well...I would say that... what Starlin did was create some of the coolest comics of the mid to late 70's... books that many people hold very near and dear, for nostalgic reasons... they were special, and it resonated because of it. He did it at a time when the money to do it wasn't much, especially for a freelancer... $15-20 a page... adjusted for inflation about $1769 a month on the high end, BEFORE TAXES... He did it for the love of doing comics, and I think that shows through, especially in that early work. And I think that was great for comics. I think people would do well to remember that all a creator "owes" us as fans, is the best work they are capable of doing at the time they're doing it. Everything else is gravy topofthetotem and Bird 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Logan510 said: I think people would do well to remember that all a creator "owes" us as fans, is the best work they are capable of doing at the time they're doing it. Everything else is gravy I like gravy 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...