What's a Cap 1 ppp these days ? 0

[Sqeggs]

Just now, Dark Knight said:

2 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

Imo, one of the most interesting things about Cap 1 from a historical pov is that it was actually on the stands in Dec 1940 -- a full year before the U.S. entered WW II.

Well, that is a very interesting fun fact of the day!  I didn't know that.  Thanks for sharing!  

Given the strong feelings at the time about the U.S. staying out of the war, you wonder whether some newsstands might have been reluctant to display the book.  Obviously by then there wasn't much doubt about the character of Hitler and the Nazi regime and Germany's invasion of Poland had happened, but, still, the cover certainly stakes out a strong position on the side of the U.S. entering the war.

We know Cap 1 sold well, but does anyone know whether there was any controversy over it?  Lindbergh was drawing big crowds to his speeches advocating keeping the U.S. out of the war.  Would the people attending those speeches and similar events have been indifferent to their kids buying Cap 1?  Maybe because it was a comic, nobody much cared, and it flew under the radar of that political controversy. 

[Primetime]

2 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Imo, one of the most interesting things about Cap 1 from a historical pov is that it was actually on the stands in Dec 1940 -- a full year before the U.S. entered WW II.

yup, 12-20-40 was the release date...imagine that rolled up in your Christmas stocking.

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, Primetime said:

yup, 12-20-40 was the release date...imagine that rolled up in your Christmas stocking.

Man how the heck do you guys even know this ?

-J.

[Primetime]

22 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Man how the heck do you guys even know this ?

-J.

I'm a historian of the hobby and I read tons of research articles and publications...

[Jaydogrules]

49 minutes ago, Primetime said:

I'm a historian of the hobby and I read tons of research articles and publications...

That's good to know.  Thank you for the knowledge drop on that.  Certainly gives the book a unique context.    

-J.

[Primetime]

38 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

That's good to know.  Thank you for the knowledge drop on that.  Certainly gives the book a unique context.    

-J.

[streyouttacomics]

6 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Given the strong feelings at the time about the U.S. staying out of the war, you wonder whether some newsstands might have been reluctant to display the book.  Obviously by then there wasn't much doubt about the character of Hitler and the Nazi regime and Germany's invasion of Poland had happened, but, still, the cover certainly stakes out a strong position on the side of the U.S. entering the war.

We know Cap 1 sold well, but does anyone know whether there was any controversy over it?  Lindbergh was drawing big crowds to his speeches advocating keeping the U.S. out of the war.  Would the people attending those speeches and similar events have been indifferent to their kids buying Cap 1?  Maybe because it was a comic, nobody much cared, and it flew under the radar of that political controversy. 

There actually was quite abit of controversy in regards to cap 1, as it was before the US entered the war and there were American Nazi parties in NYC.

Kirby and Simon received death threats, and people were protesting outside of the timely offices.

[jpepx78]

6 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Given the strong feelings at the time about the U.S. staying out of the war, you wonder whether some newsstands might have been reluctant to display the book.  Obviously by then there wasn't much doubt about the character of Hitler and the Nazi regime and Germany's invasion of Poland had happened, but, still, the cover certainly stakes out a strong position on the side of the U.S. entering the war.

We know Cap 1 sold well, but does anyone know whether there was any controversy over it?  Lindbergh was drawing big crowds to his speeches advocating keeping the U.S. out of the war.  Would the people attending those speeches and similar events have been indifferent to their kids buying Cap 1?  Maybe because it was a comic, nobody much cared, and it flew under the radar of that political controversy. 

There definitely was controversy surrounding the Cap 1 comic and many people cared. From Joe Simon’s autobiography “The Comic Book Makers”, Joe created a new comic character that was influenced by current events and made Hitler as the villain. He believed the idea would be successful because government propaganda was preparing America for war, the nation’s mood was very patriotic and many kids were playing soldiers fighting imaginary Hitlers. The publisher Martin Goodman liked the idea but worried about using a real person such as Hitler as the villain because “the bas***d is live and the center of a very explosive situation. He could get killed - even when our books are on the presses. Then where will we be?” Joe asked “Do you want to forget it?” Goodman said “No, we should get it out as soon as possible!”

Simon believed Cap was the first major comic book hero to take a political stand. Hitler was a marvelous foil; a ranting maniac. No matter how hard we tried to make him a threatening force, Adolph invariably wound up as a buffoon- a clown. Evidently, this infuriated a lot of Nazi sympathizers.

There was a substantial population of anti-war activists in the country. “America Firsters” and other non-interventionists groups were well-organized. Then there was the German American Bund. They were all over the place, heavily financed and effective in spewing their propaganda of hate; a fifth column of Americans following the Third Reich party line. Our irreverent treatment of their Fuehrer infuriated them. We were inundated with a torrent of raging hate mail and vicious obscene phone calls. Some employees at Timely were fearful of leaving the office since they reported seeing menacing-looking groups of strange men in front of the building at 42nd street. The result was a police guard on regular shifts patrolling the office and hallway. The Mayor of New York, Fiorello LaGuardia, called Simon and said “ You boys over there are doing a good job. The City of New York will see that no harm will come to you.” The Captain America comics were very popular and it is said that they were selling a million copies per issue.

Since New York is one of the major American entry points from Europe, people there were most likely more aware than the rest of the country of the evil deeds of Hitler and the Nazis. The cover of Cap punching Hitler was probably Simon & Kirby’s way of thumbing their noses at the Nazis and what they represent. That image's significance is unlikely to go unnoticed by immigrants with firsthand experience or people knowledgeable of the events in Europe even if it is on comic book.

Here are some pictures of people in the German American Bund.
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/06/american-nazis-in-the-1930sthe-german-american-bund/529185/

Charles Lindbergh was an isolationist, wanted America to stay neutral and had controversial viewpoints. Interestingly, Lindbergh was asked to assess the state of German military aviation and visited Germany several times between 1935 and 1938. He was given the Service Cross of the German Eagle by Herman Goring in October 1938 and he was planning to move to Berlin. A month later, after the Nazi’s brutal assault on Jews known as Kristallnacht occurred, the Lindberghs cancelled their move and returned to the US in April 1939.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by jpepx78
spelling

[Sqeggs]

12 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

14 hours ago, Primetime said:

yup, 12-20-40 was the release date...imagine that rolled up in your Christmas stocking.

Man how the heck do you guys even know this ?

-J.

Remember, this is the GA board.  We're old.  I think he bought a copy of Cap 1 off the stands. 

[Sqeggs]

10 hours ago, jpepx78 said:

There definitely was controversy surrounding the Cap 1 comic and many people cared. From Joe Simon’s autobiography “The Comic Book Makers”, Joe created a new comic character that was influenced by current events and made Hitler as the villain. He believed the idea would be successful because government propaganda was preparing America for war, the nation’s mood was very patriotic and many kids were playing soldiers fighting imaginary Hitlers. The publisher Martin Goodman liked the idea but worried about using a real person such as Hitler as the villain because “the bas***d is live and the center of a very explosive situation. He could get killed - even when our books are on the presses. Then where will we be?” Joe asked “Do you want to forget it?” Goodman said “No, we should get it out as soon as possible!”

Simon believed Cap was the first major comic book hero to take a political stand. Hitler was a marvelous foil; a ranting maniac. No matter how hard we tried to make him a threatening force, Adolph invariably wound up as a buffoon- a clown. Evidently, this infuriated a lot of Nazi sympathizers.

There was a substantial population of anti-war activists in the country. “America Firsters” and other non-interventionists groups were well-organized. Then there was the German American Bund. They were all over the place, heavily financed and effective in spewing their propaganda of hate; a fifth column of Americans following the Third Reich party line. Our irreverent treatment of their Fuehrer infuriated them. We were inundated with a torrent of raging hate mail and vicious obscene phone calls. Some employees at Timely were fearful of leaving the office since they reported seeing menacing-looking groups of strange men in front of the building at 42nd street. The result was a police guard on regular shifts patrolling the office and hallway. The Mayor of New York, Fiorello LaGuardia, called Simon and said “ You boys over there are doing a good job. The City of New York will see that no harm will come to you.” The Captain America comics were very popular and it is said that they were selling a million copies per issue.

Since New York is one of the major American entry points from Europe, people there were most likely more aware than the rest of the country of the evil deeds of Hitler and the Nazis. The cover of Cap punching Hitler was probably Simon & Kirby’s way of thumbing their noses at the Nazis and what they represent. That image's significance is unlikely to go unnoticed by immigrants with firsthand experience or people knowledgeable of the events in Europe even if it is on comic book.

Here are some pictures of people in the German American Bund.
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/06/american-nazis-in-the-1930sthe-german-american-bund/529185/

Charles Lindbergh was an isolationist, wanted America to stay neutral and had controversial viewpoints. Interestingly, Lindbergh was asked to assess the state of German military aviation and visited Germany several times between 1935 and 1938. He was given the Service Cross of the German Eagle by Herman Goring in October 1938 and he was planning to move to Berlin. A month later, after the Nazi’s brutal assault on Jews known as Kristallnacht occurred, the Lindberghs cancelled their move and returned to the US in April 1939.

 

 

 

 

The Lindbergh story is a strange one.  From world-wide hero after his solo flight across the Atlantic in 1927 (excellent new book out on that) to a morally obtuse position wrt the Nazis.  After Pearl Harbor, he did flip positions and supported the war. Although Roosevelt denied him a significant position in the war effort, he ended up flying combat missions in the Pacific.  I've read a lot about him and he remains an enigma. Strange mix of attributes.

I wonder whether Simon's account might not be a bit overblown.  Menacing groups of strange men lurking on 42nd St. has the ring of a well worn story recounted many years later.  It would probably take some digging through NYC newspapers of the day to see what their accounts might have been.  

[Knightsofold]

18 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Imo, one of the most interesting things about Cap 1 from a historical pov is that it was actually on the stands in Dec 1940 -- a full year before the U.S. entered WW II.

I agree 100%.  Any pre Pearl Harbor anti Axis cover is special in my book.

[Bronty]

very interesting jpep, thank you!

[Primetime]

2 hours ago, Knightsofold said:

I agree 100%.  Any pre Pearl Harbor anti Axis cover is special in my book.

all the pre-40 and 1940 Timelys are the best of the Goodman era in it's infancy....

[Primetime]

4 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Remember, this is the GA board.  We're old.  I think he bought a copy of Cap 1 off the stands.