(attempted) Flip of the Day! 11 11

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:49 PM, Lobster Janson said:

The art has become more valuable but it"s not that great a coup for the seller. He/she will make less than 400$ (after HA's split, bp and shipping costs, and even less if extra tax was involved when it was bought  on Goldin).

This kind of begs the question: how much do people want to see on a flip? Five months later you bring in 10%. Seems ok if you can do that consistently, but pretty low if you have to suck rocks and take a loss on another piece. I sell art so infrequently, I find 10% acceptable after the fees. I've done better than that, and I've done worse - so I consider that a workable number, but perhaps others have a different percentage as a target?

[Lobster Janson]

If there was a sales or local tax involved the profit will be less than 10%. I don't know if that was the case but if so, the seller may have just made break even. That's less than you'd get on a savings account.

[1classics]

On 9/13/2024 at 3:19 AM, Lobster Janson said:

If there was a sales or local tax involved the profit will be less than 10%. I don't know if that was the case but if so, the seller may have just made break even. That's less than you'd get on a savings account.

Let's just say it was a successful flip and be okay with it LOL. Not me, but I know who it is and he did far better than break even or even 10%, I'm not going to get into complete details, but there were little to no fees and no tax, so let's please stop justifying in our heads how people can't or shouldn't flip art. Or in this case earn more in a savings account? He found a good deal on another auction site and turned it over to arguably the biggest auction site and was successful and that's all, period. Good day to you all and happy bidding and success to everyone moving forward, even for the flippers.

[KirbyCollector]

On 9/13/2024 at 12:22 PM, 1classics said:

let's please stop justifying in our heads how people can't or shouldn't flip art. Or in this case earn more in a savings account

A sad testament to the state of our hobby

[1classics]

On 9/13/2024 at 7:04 AM, KirbyCollector said:

A sad testament to the state of our hobby

Just to be clear I didn’t say that statement about earning more in a savings account, that was someone else. But for that matter who cares? Sometimes I read these “flip” threads and think wow how are we as a community knocking people for whatever reason they choose of when, where and how to sell? I heard recently of a bigger collector raising money to buy his dream property and had to sell off some recent art purchases. Are we blasting him on here? And saying it’s a sad state for the hobby? Or blasting the dealers who need more inventory and aren’t getting the unheard of collections on someone’s basement anymore, but instead buying on heritage and other sites and listing on their site shortly after? Just saying…

[Shaun Hill]

This. People are free to spend their money how they see fit.  Additionally, they can sell whatever they own for whatever reason they own it at any time of their choosing.  This idea I've read that they are "not collectors" because they choose to sell something is just ridiculous.  Nearly every collector in this hobby has sold something at one time or another.  Sometimes it's to buy another piece of art, sometimes it's to benefit their life in some way, etc.  I've never seen a group so quick to eat their own.

[Rick2you2]

On 9/13/2024 at 4:30 PM, Shaun Hill said:

This. People are free to spend their money how they see fit.  Additionally, they can sell whatever they own for whatever reason they own it at any time of their choosing.  This idea I've read that they are "not collectors" because they choose to sell something is just ridiculous.  Nearly every collector in this hobby has sold something at one time or another.  Sometimes it's to buy another piece of art, sometimes it's to benefit their life in some way, etc.  I've never seen a group so quick to eat their own.

You are wrong about your assumption. Quite a few people do not sell what they have acquired, including me, and I bought my first piece in 1980. As to the right of people to buy and sell what they have, of course they do. The ones which disturb many in the collecting community are those who treat art as a way to bag an extra buck instead of appreciating the art for its own sake. And buying/selling in a transactional manner falls in that category—except for dealers, where we just laugh at some of the attempted sales prices (or cry a little at missing a good deal). Some people buy with the expectation of selling before they die or after they retire, but that isn’t flipping. Do you have the right to fa*t in an elevator? Sure, but don’t expect to make the other occupants happy about it.

[Shaun Hill]

That's why I specifically said "nearly every collector".  It's not a universal truth, but it would be foolish to say that most people who have been collecting original art for a reasonable period have not sold a piece.  There are a plethora of reasons this happens - better example available, financial hardship, buyer's remorse, etc.  I don't know understand why anyone cares unless they missed out on an original purchase.  If a piece is now available and it means that much to them, just buy it from said flipper. Even if I see someone doing it for financial gain, I couldn't give two rips.  They took the risk, so let them enjoy the reward or feel the sting of failure and learn from it.  I read so much of this as moaning and cheering for others to fail.

[Noob19]

I just noticed this flip of Wolverine #23 Splash Page 1. (If this was a case of buyer's remorse or financial hardship why would one need to price the page at well over double what was paid three months earlier? This reeks of opportunism to me. I am new to this hobby but I see nothing wrong with calling it out.)

 

Sold on HA in June 2024 for $1320.

 

Now available on CAF for $3200.

Edited Sunday at 08:35 PM by Noob19
added pictures

[KirbyCollector]

On 9/13/2024 at 11:46 PM, Shaun Hill said:

 I read so much of this as moaning and cheering for others to fail.

If you bought a page with the intention of making a short term gain (i.e. treating it as a commodity like GameStop stock or crypto instead of art to be appreciated for its merits), then yes, I want you to fail 

Edited Saturday at 01:18 PM by KirbyCollector

[Rick2you2]

On 9/14/2024 at 8:45 AM, KirbyCollector said:

If you bought a page with the intention of making a short term gain (i.e. treating it as a commodity like GameStop stock or crypto instead of art to be appreciated for its merits), then yes, I want you to fail 

Agreed. It has the effect of driving up the overall market price of similar pieces, making it harder for die-hards like myself to get what they want. And if someone buys a piece and decides after a few years to swap up or use the money elsewhere, that’s fine. 

[Shaun Hill]

I would argue our hobby has far fewer flippers than just about any other collecting group I've experienced, so it really doesn't bother me.  

Added: Most of the higher turnover I have seen is in the modern space (post 2000 era), likely because that era hasn't yet settled or matured in the same way Silver Age and Bronze Age art has due to collector age.  The older art primarily seems to be dealer swaps and turnover from what I've seen.  Has that been others' experience as well?

Edited Saturday at 04:55 PM by Shaun Hill

[Xatari]

@Shaun Hill I collect art from several eras but really started with modern.  I think Modern is starting to settle and stabilize a bit, but I hear what you are saying.  The average age of OA collectors does seem to be higher than comic collectors, and because of this, it has been behind arts from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, but I would argue it's catching up quickly.  90s art lagged behind for a bit, but there was a pretty big surge in the last 5 years.  I have little doubt the same will be true of post 90s art as younger collectors continue to enter the hobby and older collectors exit. The survival of any hobby is dependent on the ability to welcome new entrants, which again, speaks to your previous point about the necessity to refrain from self-cannibalizing.

[vodou]

On 9/14/2024 at 3:51 PM, Xatari said:

The survival of any hobby ponzi scheme is dependent on the ability to welcome new entrants, which again, speaks to your previous point about the necessity to refrain from self-cannibalizing.

 

[Xatari]

Haha!  Classic

[mister_not_so_nice]

On 9/14/2024 at 4:02 AM, Noob19 said:

I just noticed this flip of Wolverine #23 Splash Page 1. (If this was a case of buyer's remorse or financial hardship why would one need to price the page at well over double what was paid three months earlier? This reeks of opportunism to me. I am new to this hobby but I see nothing wrong with calling it out.)

 

Sold on HA in June 2024 for $1320.

 

Now available on CAF for $3200.

That's not a flip.

When reposting the art he simply missed the "1" when putting the four digits in front of the decimal point. A mere oversight. Happens all the time.  

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 9/14/2024 at 11:52 AM, Shaun Hill said:

I would argue our hobby has far fewer flippers than just about any other collecting group I've experienced, so it really doesn't bother me.  

Added: Most of the higher turnover I have seen is in the modern space (post 2000 era), likely because that era hasn't yet settled or matured in the same way Silver Age and Bronze Age art has due to collector age.  The older art primarily seems to be dealer swaps and turnover from what I've seen.  Has that been others' experience as well?

then you've not been (active) in the hobby for very long or very recently.  Or you collect Archie art. 

[brainbats]

Here's a piece that's followed a strange path in the last 8 months.  In January it sold on Heritage for $5,160. In June it was listed on a dealer's site for $12K, and lowered to $10K a couple of weeks later.  Shortly after that it was gone from the dealer's site and appeared in a collector's CAF gallery.  Then it showed up in C-Link's September auction where I picked it up for $4,766.

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/14/2024 at 10:52 AM, Shaun Hill said:

I would argue our hobby has far fewer flippers than just about any other collecting group I've experienced, so it really doesn't bother me.  

I see a lot of attempted flips to the point that I was almost convinced people are just buying art, putting a gigantic pricetag on it while it hangs on their wall - caring not whether it sells or doesn't. Haven't seen many completed flips, but I'm looking at a specific genre - so my scope is limited. What I can tell you, based on my multi-day perusals of CAF, Ebay and my ComicArtTracker search results, is that there is wave after wave of common pages being tsunami'd onto the market right now. It's been going on very actively for 4-5 days now, and it's at levels much higher than what I've seen in my three years of very active shopping.

[MAY1979]

On 9/14/2024 at 12:52 PM, Shaun Hill said:

I would argue our hobby has far fewer flippers than just about any other collecting group I've experienced, so it really doesn't bother me.  

Added: Most of the higher turnover I have seen is in the modern space (post 2000 era), likely because that era hasn't yet settled or matured in the same way Silver Age and Bronze Age art has due to collector age.  The older art primarily seems to be dealer swaps and turnover from what I've seen.  Has that been others' experience as well?

My long-time perception is while Comic Art may have less total flippers than Comic Books the percentage of flippers to collectors is significantly higher. Also in Comic art its seen far more frequent at dealer level than Comics.

Many times i've seen a piece on the first day of a con then the next day or day after see it at another dealers table for more. More than once I saw the same piece at multiple dealer tables on the same day with the price increasing at each hop. Never witnessed that with Comic Books

Edited Tuesday at 11:49 PM by MAY1979