Why comic OA is better than fine art 1 1

[delekkerste]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

One nanobiotech gets off the ground, it will be simple.  Matter of when not if.  

I guarantee you none of us here will live to see it happen. They can't even figure out cures for far more basic ailments and yet they're going to extend human life almost indefinitely?  Not even a scenario worth contemplating.

All of us will be gone in 150 years and this hobby will have entered a long-term secular decline within 30 years (probably sooner for both, but I'm rounding way up just to be dead certain). 

Edited August 28, 2017 by delekkerste

[kav]

Just now, delekkerste said:

I guarantee you none of us here will live to see it happen. They can't even figure out cures for far more basic ailments and yet they're going to extend human life almost indefinitely?  Not even a scenario worth contemplating.

All of us will be gone in 150 years and this hobby will have entered a long-term secular decline within 30 years (probably sooner for both, but I'm rounding way up just to be dead certain). 

anyone under the age of 30 has a good chance of reaping the rewards of nanotech.  We can already make simple nanomachines (enzymes)-once we can design whatever protein machines we want we can do whatever we want to the cell.  Including repairing any and all damage.  And deactivating the biological aging clock.  There are plenty of organisms that do not age-aging is an evolutionary development, not an inevitable part of 'life'.

[suspense39]

45 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I don't know. But, there would be a market opportunity for someone to really target Millennials.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/elusive-wealthy-tech-art-collector-1058471

the fine art world has been after that new $ (maybe not exactly millennials) and so far not much has happened

[Knightsofold]

9 hours ago, Hal Turner said:

Gene, it feels like you've been predicting the impending demise of comics/comic art for years. The market remains robust. If anyone reacted to your earlier predictions and sold their stuff, they left  money on the table.

The future of the $3.99 floppy may not look bright, but the graphic novel area of my local library is growing rapidly. Some of those books have been read to death! Those crazy kids aren't hitting the LCS like before but a ton of them are reading both legal and pirated comics on the internet. A younger generation is still getting exposed to comics, just in a different way than in the past.

What I'm saying is, no one knows what will happen in the years ahead, including when or if our hobby goes away. 

I've recently wondered how different sales would be if kids couldn't read any comic for free on the internet.  If we could track it, there might be more young comic fans than we think.

[Knightsofold]

1 hour ago, suspense39 said:

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/elusive-wealthy-tech-art-collector-1058471

the fine art world has been after that new $ (maybe not exactly millennials) and so far not much has happened

If the tech kids could buy the very best of the best in fine art more people would be interested, but at 100+ million a pop, these key piece collectors are in a league of their own.

[PhilipB2k17]

2 hours ago, suspense39 said:

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/elusive-wealthy-tech-art-collector-1058471

the fine art world has been after that new $ (maybe not exactly millennials) and so far not much has happened

I don't think Millennials are into the abstract. They want grounded things. That's why I think Comic OA would be far more appealing to them than contemporary art, generally. 

[PhilipB2k17]

2 hours ago, suspense39 said:

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/elusive-wealthy-tech-art-collector-1058471

the fine art world has been after that new $ (maybe not exactly millennials) and so far not much has happened

I'd also hazard a guess that a lot of these supposedly elusive tech Titans DO collect art. But I bet they are more likely to own a Ditko or Kirby than a Rothko or De Kooning

Edited August 28, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[PhilipB2k17]

49 minutes ago, Knightsofold said:

If the tech kids could buy the very best of the best in fine art more people would be interested, but at 100+ million a pop, these key piece collectors are in a league of their own.

I don't think the tech kids WANT that stuff. That why they aren't buying it. 

[suspense39]

5 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I'd also hazard a guess that a lot of these supposedly elusive tech Titans DO collect art. But I bet they are more likely to own a Ditko or Kirby than a Rothko or De Kooning

it's very possible.....if it is, the galleries would be wise to use that to their advantage

[ComicConnoisseur]

5 hours ago, Bronty said:

I agree the returns are terrible but I see some other factors at play.

Could be because of a lot of fakes and reproductions? I notice all the hobbies that have certfication are doing just fine,and it's the old hobbies that rely on 1980s model of grading that seemed to have lost most value.

An example is comic book keys and vintage rookie sportcards have exploded in value.

Also key Star Wars action figures that are certified have set records these last few years.

Certification = makes the hobbies more legit for investing/speculating,unlike old antiques which can be faked.

 

[vodou]

40 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I don't think Millennials are into the abstract.

Isn't their whole snowflake existence sort of...abstract?

[comicwiz]

7 hours ago, O. said:

1. I think OA (and collectible comic book) collecting's best long-term hope is that comic movies/TV shows/videogames result in a Star Wars-like market for comic characters' memorabilia. What I mean is this -- Episodes IV, V & VI spawned a rabid, multi-billion dollar Star Wars memorabilia collector market, and maintained it for 26 years between new theatrical releases. And since 1999, that market has only grown, with new generations of memorabilia collectors arising from Episodes I, II & III and presumably, Episodes VII, VIII & IX. 

I don't want to completely dismiss this point as it has elements of truth to it, however in relation to what's being discussed, particularly the inevitable extinction of comics and comic OA, collector fatique will set in before any scenario where the things we collect now will be worthless. The "fatigue" I speak about has already happened with Star Wars toy collecting, and while this article seems to dwell on Disney's consecutive scheduled movie releases, and new toy sales, there is a noticeable drop-off that has occurred with vintage toys as well. 

Remaining culturally relevant, yes I agree it helps. But slow and steady seems to be comparatively better than too much of a good thing.  There's also a number of reasons why things have dropped in value on vintage AR episodes. Look carefully at these instances next time you watch these episodes - there are a number of examples where the appraiser flat out overpriced the piece. The furniture, almost always either remains the same or dropped if a single aspect of it has been restored, is unoriginal to the piece, or is incomplete. Blame the internet for this, because there will always be a complete, unrestored example that will appear no matter how rare the table, chest, armoire or chair is.

Barring any singular event that immediately turns our hobby interests into a meaningless pursuit in the face of priorities of feeding oneself to survive, there is a much greater chance the next generation of collectors will become enamored with philosophies of minimalism than any occurrence of a drastic correction in back issue comics or OA.  Even then, it will look more like an advanced method of collecting by culling down to a handful of quality items rather than a basement full of stuff.

Edited August 28, 2017 by comicwiz

[PhilipB2k17]

I'd also add to this thread that maybe looking at Magic the Gatheting card art, or game card art,in general, might not be a bad investment.  

[SquareChaos]

10 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

The real unaswerable question though... what percentage of library borrowers even start buying comic books or graphic novels, let alone OA? It is all very hard to predict.

7 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Nobody who reads graphic novels at the library as his or her only involvement in the medium is spending $1K, let alone $10K or $100K on art.  Let's get real, folks... 

I agree, I was attempting to say it is a very long shot percentage in the nicest way possible. However, it isn't impossible - I'm just young enough to have checked out some graphic novels from my local library when I was in my twenties and broke, and while I don't make exactly make it rain, I do buy OA.

[vodou]

17 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I agree, I was attempting to say it is a very long shot percentage in the nicest way possible. However, it isn't impossible - I'm just young enough to have checked out some graphic novels from my local library when I was in my twenties and broke, and while I don't make exactly make it rain, I do buy OA.

Good answer. Today's library patrons on a budget may be tomorrow's transitionals to OA that also have more disposable then, which would make more expensive items more appealing too. Maybe. Let's not presume it's all over so quickly and easily!

[kav]

All it takes is one piece to get someone hooked.  I got my LCS owner hooked on OA when I got him an original Jeffrey Brown sketch.  He framed it and hung it in his shop then began buying pages.  He has several now, including a $4000 walking dead page and he had a Crumb page which he had to sell after the fire but he is hooked!!  I bought my first page then got hooked.  I now have many pieces including 3 Curt Swan pages and some great sean phillips as well as Mad panels, Mahnke, Adlard, etc.

Edited August 29, 2017 by kav

[cstojano]

1 hour ago, kav said:

All it takes is one piece to get someone hooked.  I got my LCS owner hooked on OA when I got him an original Jeffrey Brown sketch.  He framed it and hung it in his shop then began buying pages.  He has several now, including a $4000 walking dead page and he had a Crumb page which he had to sell after the fire but he is hooked!!  I bought my first page then got hooked.  I now have many pieces including 3 Curt Swan pages and some great sean phillips as well as Mad panels, Mahnke, Adlard, etc.

This is true. I have no reason to collect Oceanic art, but I do. I found an eBay listing for some old arrows, which led me to a website and eventually to a Christies Paris auction. I bid on and won my first piece. 13 years later I am still hooked though cannot really afford anything decent anymore. There is nothing driving this market, nothing. In fact the dealers and collectors seem to do everything possible to discourage new collectors. There is almost 0 online presence, almost nothing is priced (price on request - bane of my existence), yet prices remain pretty strong for the top end stuff. I think if people have the money and come to appreciate the thing for what it is (whatever that thing is) then people will collect it.

Anyone know techniques for finding people who appear on Antiques Roadshow to harass them for pieces shown A replay of a Cincinnati 2012 episode features some artwork I am obsessing over.

chris

 

edit: this is my 250th post here. Why am I here? Buscema movie adaptation Conan pages that I found through Google images on CAF (pretty low rent stuff). I forget what I was looking for but that was it (still don't own anything from the movie specials for Conan or Raiders of the Lost Ark - actively seeking both). Another anecdote, I suppose, but there are no fundamentals explaining my interests in OA.

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by cstojano

[kav]

2 minutes ago, cstojano said:

This is true. I have no reason to collect Oceanic art, but I do. I found an eBay listing for some old arrows, which led me to a website and eventually to a Christies Paris auction. I bid on and won my first piece. 13 years later I am still hooked though cannot really afford anything decent anymore. There is nothing driving this market, nothing. In fact the dealers and collectors seem to do everything possible to discourage new collectors. There is almost 0 online presence, almost nothing is priced (price on request - bane of my existence), yet prices remain pretty strong for the top end stuff. I think if people have the money and come to appreciate the thing for what it is (whatever that thing is) then people will collect it.

Anyone know techniques for finding people who appear on Antiques Roadshow to harass them for pieces shown A replay of a Cincinnati 2012 episode features some artwork I am obsessing over.

chris

 

I found Witherell's just by googling and it was 3 blocks from my home!!  

Edited August 29, 2017 by kav

[delekkerste]

16 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I don't think the tech kids WANT that stuff. That why they aren't buying it. 

They don't want our stuff either.  You really have to be indoctrinated into this hobby and know these universes and creators in a way that only comes from hundreds/thousands of hours reading and admiring the source material - NOT just watching the movies and TV shows - to have the burning desire to want to shell out large sums to own a piece of that.  

With name brand fine artists, that delivers social cachet and prestige and the appearance of intellectual depth, which is why those get bought even by those who don't truly appreciate the work (and more power to those who actually do get it).   With OA, you get none of that outside of a small niche of aficionados so you better love this stuff more than just about anything else. 

This is why pieces like the DKR 3 splash were contested by two usual suspects, not by Jeff Bezos vs. Larry Page.  And why the Hulk 180 end page was won by a usual suspect as well, not by Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel (or Hugh Jackman for that matter - not that someone like him couldn't be interested on some level, but, even someone with his resources and earnings power couldn't mentally justify going to $657K like the winner of the piece - it takes a True Believer to get there).  

It's a special kind of psychosis we have here my friends, one that usually takes a lifetime to develop.  Don't make the mistake of assuming that it is easily spread to either the masses or certain niches.  It's not. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by delekkerste

[delekkerste]

6 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

I agree, I was attempting to say it is a very long shot percentage in the nicest way possible. However, it isn't impossible - I'm just young enough to have checked out some graphic novels from my local library when I was in my twenties and broke, and while I don't make exactly make it rain, I do buy OA.

Yes, but I'm guessing that wasn't your gateway into the OA hobby, and isn't anybody else's either.  Like I said, I check out graphic novels from the library myself (probably average about a half dozen to a dozen a year).  Doesn't mean that the library is a springboard into anything else, though! 

My point being that actually buying and collecting physical comics has been the gateway to collecting vintage OA (newer OA is a different beast), and I haven't seen any evidence that libraries or movies or anything else has short circuited that process beyond perhaps a one-off example here or there - exceptions that prove the rule. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by delekkerste