Why comic OA is better than fine art 1 1

[kav]

12 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Most of the categories you mention are in secular stagnation now at best, with some in outright secular decline.  Think about what will happen to the antiques market and other hobbies favored by the Baby Boomers, some Gen Xers and the remnants of the Greatest Generation. Trust me, kids today aren't going to grow up wanting Revolutionary War furniture, Tiffany lamps or 99.999% of books and stamps.

 

I'm not saying that no one will be interested, but it will be fewer people with less money and more scattered interests. Prices will have to fall for markers to clear. Beyond obvious. 

 

But if people have been collecting antiques for 300+ years do you really see it all coming to a halt now?  People have been collecting Ming vases for almost a thousand years.   

Edited August 28, 2017 by kav

[delekkerste]

5 minutes ago, kav said:

But if people have been collecting antiques for 300+ years do you really see it all coming to a halt now?  People have been collecting Ming vases for almost a thousand years.

It won't ALL come to a halt, but, over time, more and more will fall by the wayside, supplanted by other things.  Don't underestimate how splintered interests have become over the past 20-25 years, which has already seen things we take for granted fall out of favor after enjoying decades of success and presumed permanence. When the children born in the 00s and 10s grow up, they are going to have vastly different interests than previous generations.

Revolutionary change, not evolutionary. 

[kav]

Just now, delekkerste said:

It won't ALL come to a halt, but, over time, more and more will fall by the wayside, supplanted by other things.  Don't underestimate how splintered interests have become over the past 20-25 years, which has already seen things we take for granted fall out of favor after enjoying decades of success and presumed permanence. When the children born in the 00s and 10s grow up, they are going to have vastly different interests than previous generations.

Revolutionary change, not evolutionary. 

The argument 'kids today'- have been made since the dawn of civilisation as if each new generation will be completely different in what they value-and it has never proven to be true.  100 years ago someone was saying 'kids today wont value things like the gutenberg bible-'

[AnkurJ]

12 minutes ago, kav said:

But if people have been collecting antiques for 300+ years do you really see it all coming to a halt now?  People have been collecting Ming vases for almost a thousand years.

No one said it will come to a halt but things will most definetly slow down. 

The biggest cocncern we should have as comic collectors is how much of our youth is actually reading comics. It's not often I see young children at comic shops unless they are playing Pokémon or another game of the sorts. I've introduced comics to my kids and nieces/nephews, and others should do the same. 

And Kav, regarding your comment on Planet comics etc. Boobs and bondage are always in style

[kav]

1 minute ago, AnkurJ said:

No one said it will come to a halt but things will most definetly slow down. 

The biggest cocncern we should have as comic collectors is how much of our youth is actually reading comics. It's not often I see young children at comic shops unless they are playing Pokémon or another game of the sorts. I've introduced comics to my kids and nieces/nephews, and others should do the same. 

And Kav, regarding your comment on Planet comics etc. Boobs and bondage are always in style

So-more boobs you're saying-

[delekkerste]

6 minutes ago, kav said:

The argument 'kids today'- have been made since the dawn of civilisation as if each new generation will be completely different in what they value-and it has never proven to be true.  100 years ago someone was saying 'kids today wont value things like the gutenberg bible-'

We never had the Internet before, this amount of globalization, mass communication, or the kind of technological step changes we've seen since the mid-90s.  Wake up to the new reality, Kav, or you're going to be like a dinosaur on the brink of extinction saying that "we've ruled the planet for millions of years and calls for our demise have never happened."

Some things like the Gutenberg Bible and Ming vases are likely to be immune, but GA comics as a category...I doubt it. 

[kav]

5 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

We never had the Internet before, this amount of globalization, mass communication, or the kind of technological step changes we've seen since the mid-90s.  Wake up to the new reality, Kav, or you're going to be like a dinosaur on the brink of extinction saying that "we've ruled the planet for millions of years and calls for our demise have never happened."

Some things like the Gutenberg Bible and Ming vases are likely to be immune, but GA comics as a category...I doubt it. 

"We've never had covered wagons before, or printing, or them new fangled lamps-"

crossbows mean the end of the world-they can pierce armor and stuff-

Edited August 28, 2017 by kav

[delekkerste]

1 hour ago, mtlevy1 said:

Can't remember where I saw this article but essentially it said the reason per-raphaelite / similar art 'died out' was that it took to long to create an artwork 

I was in Liverpool the past few days (en route to Scotland now) and saw some amazing Pre-Raphaelite examples at the local museums (Walker Art Gallery and Lady Lever Art Gallery). Funny how comic guys in their 40s-60s seem to revere PRB art more than just about anyone else - must be the BWS and, to a lesser extent, Studio-era Jones influences.

I also saw Tracey Emin's iconic "My Bed" at the Tate Liverpool, which I'm sure would have caused Kav to "Hulk out". 

[ComicConnoisseur]

8 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

In the museum i mentioned there is in all reality NOT ONE piece of art that a 5th grader could not have done, i could give countless examples , but here is one

someone  decided to halfway melt about 500 pairs of dentures into a 20 foot long snake like thing and call it art.  it took up an entire large room and i watched for awhile as 100% of the people walked into the room , looked at it for about  5 seconds and left, it was completely unremarkable as was/is everything else in the museum, but this college town is pushing this "spoon" as modern art

+1,000,000

Disclaimar: I use to work in an art gallery over a decade ago. If the Joe Q public knew what goes on behind the scenes for them to get their government grants they would be sick. It is not about art,unless they mean the art of getting money.

That's the art. 

[delekkerste]

3 minutes ago, kav said:

"We've never had covered wagons before, or printing, or them new fangled lamps-"

Not the same and everyone knows it. 

[kav]

Just now, ComicConnoisseur said:

+1,000,000

Disclaimar: I use to work in an art gallery over a decade ago. If the Joe Q public knew what goes on behind the scenes for them to get their government grants they would be sick. It is not about art,unless they mean the art of getting money.

That's the art. 

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

[kav]

Just now, delekkerste said:

Not the same and everyone knows it. 

Thats what they said back then too.  "THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT-"

[kav]

If anything the internet has accelerated collecting.  You can learn about stuff easy, buy and sell it easy.  In the old days if you wanted AF15 it was hard to acquire.  Now you can buy one in 60 seconds.  Before the internet I didnt even know there was a planet comics venus or jo jo comics-now I want them

Edited August 28, 2017 by kav

[delekkerste]

1 minute ago, kav said:

If anything the internet has accelerated collecting.  You can learn about stuff easy, buy and sell it easy.  In the old days if you wanted AF15 it was hard to acquire.  Now you can buy one in 60 seconds.

For existing collectors.  But, it has splintered and fragmented interests for future generations in an infinite number of directions. It has also displaced jobs/industries and has put deflationary pressure on future earnings potential as well.

Today's gains are tomorrow's pain. 

[delekkerste]

Somebody please find and bump that $35 Million Lichtenstein thread in this forum. I'm on my phone and can't find it. 

[kav]

1 minute ago, delekkerste said:

Somebody please find and bump that $35 Million Lichtenstein thread in this forum. I'm on my phone and can't find it. 

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/230346-lichtenstein-comic-inspired-art-estimated-at-35-45-million/

[vodou]

54 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

They ARE dying out.  Do you watch Antiques Roadshow? Those "then and now" episodes show most of that stuff like Revolutionary Era furniture has stagnated or declined since the late 90s.  Most of that stuff stopped appreciating long ago. 

No kidding, I watched the Roadshow a lot in the 90s- early 2000s and then didn't for many years, only catching one of those then/now episodes recently. I remember some of those specific items even from way back and the stagnation and even 25% correction was surprising. But then again it wasn't. I thought those numbers were crazy back then, and I didn't get pulled in. I still am not interested in any of that stuff now (as far as owning most of it at all, and almost none at then or even current FMV). If that's me - "no thanks to old 'n dusty 'n broken junk" - then how much more so the next two generations behind me that can't even get out from under there student debt (not to mention parent's basement)?!

Smart move doing those then/now episodes, way to not have to create new (expensive) content and yet still hold the audience attention.

[kav]

3 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

For existing collectors.  But, it has splintered and fragmented interests for future generations in an infinite number of directions. It has also displaced jobs/industries and has put deflationary pressure on future earnings potential as well.

Today's gains are tomorrow's pain. 

No it also creates new collectors-someone becomes a comic movie fan, googles, googles some more, locates the collector society or some other site, learns about collecting comics, gets interested.  I've seen countless noobies come here like that-"i'm new to collecting I just found out-"

[vodou]

46 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I'm not saying that no one will be interested, but it will be fewer people with less money and more scattered interests. Prices will have to fall for markets to clear. Beyond obvious.

I won't clutter a narrowly focused message board with "my" OT scattered interest(s), except to say that I make daily nut buying out of estate sales and what Gene says is absolutely true re: scattered interests and prices falling to clear markets. The no reserve country estate sale, cash 'n carry (or UPS Store for internet bidders) is the ultimate 'clearing' action. The dead have no price memory, that's why it works, the heirs don't care but you know something is up when you buy a painting for $185 (all in, in 2015) that was in a 1990 Christie's catalog and sold for $4500 there. And no, this was not a contemporary/modern/etc piece. One might be tempted to say 'one off', and my reply would be...I've scored hundreds of times similar, but that's the most extreme example I've found prior documentation for.

[delekkerste]

5 minutes ago, kav said:

No it also creates new collectors-someone becomes a comic movie fan, googles, googles some more, locates the collector society or some other site, learns about collecting comics, gets interested.  I've seen countless noobies come here like that-"i'm new to collecting I just found out-"

Drop in the bucket compared to the millions whose attention has been diverted elsewhere. 

The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".