PhilipB2k17 Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 1 minute ago, vodou said: It's not impossible, but most that have tried have failed. Or failed at least in the sense of keeping gallery representation (= selling enough for the gallery to invite you back again!) I'm sure a lot of guys that can paint do paint and never show "us" but their friends/family and local scene know all about it. I used to be very good friends with an artist that rode the fence and did pretty well (but not spectacularly) in both arenas. The way he explained it to me is that all painters can draw, but not all drawers can paint. And that's what he thought held back a lot of comic artists, that they one-medium artists and either didn't try to extend...or couldn't. His words, not mine, but it made sense. Bill Wray is a dude whose fine art appeals more to me than his comic art, though I like that stuff just fine too! There is also the reverse problem. Not all so-called "fine" artists can do sequential storytelling well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, kav said: Ps I was defining 'the world of fine art', not art itself. kav I hear you, but at the same time you really come off as a dog that was kicked twice a day every day for like five years and then just stopped eating. Have you never failed at anything before? Failure is what shows you how to find success. Ever consider that maybe you're not even an artists, just somebody that can draw (maybe? as I don't even know you)? What have you been ignoring all these years that you could succeed at while you're so busy railing at those that (you perceive) "won't let you"? The world of fine art is hardly seven figures+ and hardly only NYC. If nothing else, LA has been eating NYC's lunch for at least five years in the hottest contemporary end. Which is neither here not there in my book, just mentioning it. And I love Kent's gallery work and I'm sure Merry Karnowsky is just fine with her % of his sales too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 I don't know of any comic artist that made the transition to fine art in the sense of actual fine art that sells for millions in galleries and gets articles in Art News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 1 minute ago, vodou said: Ever consider that maybe you're not even an artists, just somebody that can draw Yes. I am not an artist, do not want to be an artist, have no interest in art. I like drawing pictures that make people happy-period. You can't hang me with the 'sour grapes I didn't make it so everyone sucks' label. Pee Christ sucks. Period. 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, kav said: You can't hang me with the 'sour grapes I didn't make it so everyone sucks' label. Sure I can. And I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, vodou said: Sure I can. And I do. Well that would be like me just calling you a Nazi because I don't agree with you. Meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, kav said: Well that would be like me just calling you a Nazi because I don't agree with you. Meaningless. Except I didn't create a thread on the subject and then post all sorts of exclusionary vitriol throughout. Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 Just now, vodou said: Except I didn't create a thread on the subject and then post all sorts of exclusionary vitriol throughout. Eh? Sorry I excluded pee Christ. I know it was very hurtful. Go enjoy that great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 Sadly I've had to deal with the 'you must be a frustrated' argument plenty of times over the years. If you are critical of something, defenders of that something immediately go to the 'you must be a frustrated-'. It happens when i discuss bad poetry or bad music or bad movies. 'Well i'm sorry your poetry/music/acting career didn't work out-'. It's like the go-to argument. I have no interest in or skill whatsoever in poetry or music or acting. Unfortunately, I am a person who draws so I'm a target there. But the argument is idiotic. 'Any artist who doesn't like pee christ must be a frustrated-'. Yeah sure buddy. 1950's war comics and ComicConnoisseur 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareChaos Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 57 minutes ago, kav said: Sadly I've had to deal with the 'you must be a frustrated' argument plenty of times over the years. If you are critical of something, defenders of that something immediately go to the 'you must be a frustrated-'. It happens when i discuss bad poetry or bad music or bad movies. 'Well i'm sorry your poetry/music/acting career didn't work out-'. It's like the go-to argument. I have no interest in or skill whatsoever in poetry or music or acting. Unfortunately, I am a person who draws so I'm a target there. But the argument is idiotic. 'Any artist who doesn't like pee christ must be a frustrated-'. Yeah sure buddy. It could have something to do with the type of language you use (see: "Scrawny New York snotties", etc). Perhaps you're not accurately communicating your own point of view? It is more difficult to do in text sans body language and facial cues, but it sounds like the same has happened to you even in face-to-face conversations and that suggests the failure may be on your end... or you just talk in person to a whole lot of people about these topics and the ones that respond as you have mentioned are a small percentage of the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 1 hour ago, SquareChaos said: the failure may be on your end I'm not seeing a failure here. No one ever gets talked out of their beliefs, no matter what the belief is or how you approach them. My goal wasn't to convince, which is impossible, but to mock, for the amusement of those that agree with me. 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareChaos Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, kav said: I'm not seeing a failure here. No one ever gets talked out of their beliefs, no matter what the belief is or how you approach them. My goal wasn't to convince, which is impossible, but to mock, for the amusement of those that agree with me. One of the necessary traits of communication is communicating in good faith - in other words, each side of the equation needs to believe the other side is actually interested in a free exchange of ideas. If one party in a conversation has a different goal, of course confusion will be the result. I now understand why you often have difficulty talking with others about this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 Just now, SquareChaos said: One of the necessary traits of communication is communicating in good faith - in other words, each side of the equation needs to believe the other side is actually interested in a free exchange of ideas. If one party in a conversation has a different goal, of course confusion will be the result. I now understand why you often have difficulty talking with others about this topic. When two people disagree, nothing is ever accomplished. it's just chattering. I have no difficulty whatsoever-I recognize this and only argue for the sake of amusement. ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareChaos Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Just now, kav said: When two people disagree, nothing is ever accomplished. it's just chattering. I have no difficulty whatsoever-I recognize this and only argue for the sake of amusement. So do you really mean this, or are you just saying it to amuse yourself? A conundrum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 Just now, SquareChaos said: So do you really mean this, or are you just saying it to amuse yourself? A conundrum! I mean it, and it amuses me to put my arguments forth for the amusement both of myself and others. It's like 'hey this guy thinks pee christ is art-watch what I say next'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareChaos Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 1 minute ago, kav said: I mean it, and it amuses me to put my arguments forth for the amusement both of myself and others. It's like 'hey this guy thinks pee christ is art-watch what I say next'. Pee Christ may be controversial, but Buddy Christ is clearly art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 Just now, SquareChaos said: Pee Christ may be controversial, but Buddy Christ is clearly art. See-now you're starting to get it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdroom Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Hard to see why this wouldn't qualify as art... heck, it's even figurative, and on a classical medieval/renaissance theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 It's a photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share Posted August 27, 2017 Here's another incredible work of 'art' at the Museum of Modern 'Art': ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
