Your critiques of a Chaykin Commission, please 2 2

[Michaeld]

Do not hold onto the piece for a while to see if you can get past your issues with it. A couple of years ago I had a commission done by an artist whose comic was like no other I had read before. I wanted a piece done by the artist of this very unique character with a very unusual costume. Before the piece was sent to me the artist's rep put it up on his website. I hated it at first sight. I had a lot of problems with it but my main concern was that for some reason the artist gave the character a completely different costume. The mask was the same but the costume was substituted for something you would wear while playing paint ball. Other commissions on the site had him in his proper costume but not mine. I went back to the comics to see if he had ever warn this but he hadn't. After a lengthy conversation with the rep on how I felt about it I agreed to hold the piece for a month to see if my feelings would change. That was a stupid choice on my part. Life happens, you get distracted with other more important matters and suddenly several months have gone by and it's to late.

I had that art for about two years and each time I looked at it I hated it more than the last time I looked at it. Eventually I sold it for less than I paid but it was worth it just to purge myself of the piece. It is the experience that has slowed my role of getting commissions. 

Long story short do what you need to do NOW! Even though you like it for the most part the problems may become more magnified for you as time goes on.

     

[Bronty]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

I'm no artist, and I'm not looking for perfection. But I would think that Chaykin can fix my complaints in less than an hour. That's not a lot of time. If anyone has some technical input on how to fix this, I'd like to know.

First, I don't mind a paste-up too much, as long as it's not obvious.  The one on the face is obvious. Can't it be redone so that the line of the paste-up doesn't make the guy look like he has an iron jaw? Maybe make it a little bigger to change the jaw line?

For highlighting, can't he just add some highlights with white paint or white out? Maybe shrink it with a little white out in the process? It keeps pulling my eyes from Tala, and I'd much rather be there than on the dam'n hat.

And the foot should be easy to fix. Can't he just trim the paste up around it?

 Does any of this sound unreasonable? I don't think so.

I'd say he can't.   Its probably going to take an hour of pizzing around with emails just to figure out what you want and there's no guarantee that you're going to like his fixes either.    But that's really not the point.    You hired him to create a drawing.     AGAINST HIS ADVICE you wanted something specific, which he gave you.   How it turns out is kind of on you at that point.    I don't think you're taking any responsibility on yourself for having completely ignored his (in my opinion completely reasonable) advice.     (Somehow illustrating sexual tension with zero dialogue or word balloons when the guy is wearing a cape and a hat... you're asking too much, and he told you so).

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Bronty

[Bronty]

9 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

You got it "right" earlier. Note my comment, above, on the colon cancer analogy. Being 99% healthy won't do you much good if the other 1% is fatal.

I'm also thinking what I want to do. Tentatively, tell him:

(a) that I am not happy with the head (jawline or hat) or the foot trim; 

(b) I would estimate the re-work should take an hour or so (his assistants can do the paste and remove);

(c) offering to pay shipping both ways, and

(d) if he feels I am asking him to perform extra work, offering to pay for it.

If he feels it cannot be properly fixed, tell me that. 

Also, he deserves to be complemented on Tala, big time, and I like a lot of the other parts. 

I do not agree with a number of comments suggesting I should just put it away and look at it in the future. Things like this must be addressed promptly or they never get addressed at all. 

Thoughts?

 

This is all mostly reasonable, I get that you want to be happy with it.    

If it was me I'd just offer him $500 or whatever to get it to a state where I will be happy with it.    

That would be my way of taking my part of the 'blame' for things having gone not quite the way I wanted.    

I feel like Howard did more than enough to get paid.    If you want more from him, you should be willing to pay for it, IMO.

[comix4fun]

26 minutes ago, Bronty said:

This is all mostly reasonable, I get that you want to be happy with it.    

If it was me I'd just offer him $500 or whatever to get it to a state where I will be happy with it.    

That would be my way of taking my part of the 'blame' for things having gone not quite the way I wanted.    

I feel like Howard did more than enough to get paid.    If you want more from him, you should be willing to pay for it, IMO.

Yeah, I like that piece a lot. At least parts of it. 

Mentally, I'd compartmentalize it that it's a $5 Phantom Stranger, and a $1495 babe.....and she's worth every penny. 

[J.Sid]

If he were giving a drawing as a gift to a close friend or family member was not into comic books/original art, could you see him gifting them something with that screwy paste-up on it?

Neither could I. He would know better. 

[Drewsky]

Yes, the babe is great. But, why is her foot on/in his? Why is there a paste up? The amount paid was to high for the quality given. We should have a commission experience sticky thread in this forum to post who delivers and who does not. 

[Bronty]

The price was fairly high yeah but an artist can charge what he wants no?  To me  the price, if it was agreed to for 2 figures with no background, is a separate issue from whether or not the work was completed satisfactorily 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Bronty

[Pete Marino]

To me, it sounds like you went too art director vs letting the artist do their thing.  And sometimes it works out worse than just letting them execute their vision for the final product.

 

Which means he did his best to meet your requirements, so I don't think he's in the wrong here.  And it's ok for you not to love it.  But IMO he did the job you paid him for.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Pete Marino

[Bronty]

4 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

To me, it sounds like you went too art director vs letting the artist do their thing.  And sometimes it works out worse than just letting them execute their vision for the final product.

 

Which means he did his best to meet your requirements, so I don't think he's in the wrong here.  And it's ok for you not to love it.  But IMO he did the job you paid him for.

bingo

[Ironmandrd]

 I stopped getting commissions years ago for a variety of issues, including the massive delay issue and less than satisfactory results at times.  My 2 cents is that for something like this --stick with the main issue/problem --which seems to be the jaw (which admittedly you seemed to have played a part in the final product).  Playing the percentages, criticizing his work on the hat and foot will make him less likely to help and fix the main issue.  And frankly, IMO the hat and the foot aren't in the same league as the jaw and the jaw is the real issue.  The hat and foot fall squarely with "you pays yer money and you takes yer chances"

And fer crissakes , don't mention that you posted a public thread about your unhappiness and inviting critique.  If you have to say something say you showed the piece to a friend and he mentioned something about the jaw.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Ironmandrd

[cstojano]

My 2 cents, waiting to see if you can live with a <insert anything> is like needing to go to a second viewing of a movie to convince yourself you like it.

[Rick2you2]

2 hours ago, Bronty said:

I'd say he can't.   Its probably going to take an hour of pizzing around with emails just to figure out what you want and there's no guarantee that you're going to like his fixes either.    But that's really not the point.    You hired him to create a drawing.     AGAINST HIS ADVICE you wanted something specific, which he gave you.   How it turns out is kind of on you at that point.    I don't think you're taking any responsibility on yourself for having completely ignored his (in my opinion completely reasonable) advice.     (Somehow illustrating sexual tension with zero dialogue or word balloons when the guy is wearing a cape and a hat... you're asking too much, and he told you so).

 

I don't think you are paying attention to what I keep saying, over and over. 

My biggest complaint is to the quality of the paste-up. I'm fine with his design choice. I fully accept it. 

Clear? 

 

[Rick2you2]

19 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

To me, it sounds like you went too art director vs letting the artist do their thing.  And sometimes it works out worse than just letting them execute their vision for the final product.

 

Which means he did his best to meet your requirements, so I don't think he's in the wrong here.  And it's ok for you not to love it.  But IMO he did the job you paid him for.

Again, my main complaint is the quality of the paste-up. I don't even mind the existence of the paste-up, if it blended okay. It doesn't.

The one involving the shoe, however, is beginning to bother me more and more.

[Rick2you2]

7 minutes ago, cstojano said:

My 2 cents, waiting to see if you can live with a <insert anything> is like needing to go to a second viewing of a movie to convince yourself you like it.

It's kind of like getting used to a wart.

[Rick2you2]

12 minutes ago, Ironmandrd said:

 I stopped getting commissions years ago for a variety of issues, including the massive delay issue and less than satisfactory results at times.  My 2 cents is that for something like this --stick with the main issue/problem --which seems to be the jaw (which admittedly you seemed to have played a part in the final product).  Playing the percentages, criticizing his work on the hat and foot will make him less likely to help and fix the main issue.  And frankly, IMO the hat and the foot aren't in the same league as the jaw and the jaw is the real issue.  The hat and foot fall squarely with "you pays yer money and you takes yer chances"

And fer crissakes , don't mention that you posted a public thread about your unhappiness and inviting critique.  If you have to say something say you showed the piece to a friend and he mentioned something about the jaw.

I'm leaning towards this, and also asking him if he could trim the paste-up on the shoe a little better (if not is not).

[The Voord]

8 minutes ago, cstojano said:

My 2 cents, waiting to see if you can live with a <insert anything> is like needing to go to a second viewing of a movie to convince yourself you like it.

Blade Runner 2049.  Definitely going to have to give that one a second viewing.  Not to convince myself I liked it.  Just to catch up on all the parts I fell asleep to . . . seriously.

[Bronty]

2 minutes ago, The Voord said:

Blade Runner 2049.  Definitely going to have to give that one a second viewing.  Not to convince myself I liked it.  Just to catch up on all the parts I fell asleep to . . . seriously.

The movie was awesome.   But at three hours long and given that it was late when I started watching it.. I fell asleep too    It was a great movie though

[Rick2you2]

47 minutes ago, Drewsky said:

Yes, the babe is great. But, why is her foot on/in his?

I think it's interesting you should ask this, because it is an example of how I draw my own distinctions.

I don't know why he did it, really, but it's a design decision for him to make. My interpretation would be that she was trying to get his attention any way she could, so she stood on his foot. Another possibility is that he goofed on the layout. 

Nevertheless, I kind of like it even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if I didn't, I would never take issue with something like this. I consider it to be part of the charm and character of the piece.

By the way, if you ever look at some of Kirby's work, it has its own flaws along these lines. 

[Rick2you2]

49 minutes ago, Bronty said:

The price was fairly high yeah but an artist can charge what he wants no?  To me  the price, if it was agreed to for 2 figures with no background, is a separate issue from whether or not the work was completed satisfactorily 

I really didn't mind the price: I don't evaluate art based on initial cost but on its long term effect. I have some commission work from the 1980's which I still love, and it wouldn't matter if it were $50 or $500 back then. It still brings me pleasure after all these years.

[Rick2you2]

2 hours ago, Bronty said:

This is all mostly reasonable, I get that you want to be happy with it.    

If it was me I'd just offer him $500 or whatever to get it to a state where I will be happy with it.    

That would be my way of taking my part of the 'blame' for things having gone not quite the way I wanted.    

I feel like Howard did more than enough to get paid.    If you want more from him, you should be willing to pay for it, IMO.

I would rather let him pick the amount and ask me if I am okay with it. That way, he will be satisfied he is getting fairly paid, and reasonably paid. 

FYI, $500 is a lot for the amount of work I think this needs. I've gotten really good commissions for that.