Your critiques of a Chaykin Commission, please 2 2

[eewwnuk]

I wouldnt throw more money here.  If you dont want to ask for a refund or a redo, cut your losses and call it a day.  Thats the gamble of commissions.

[Rick2you2]

1 minute ago, eewwnuk said:

I wouldnt throw more money here.  If you dont want to ask for a refund or a redo, cut your losses and call it a day.  Thats the gamble of commissions.

I would be willing to ask for a redo. I just don't think he will do it. And as someone else pointed out, the redo could be worse.

[Brian Peck]

A redo just opens it up to other issues. It sounds like you gave some specific instructions for the commission and now you go back to him to make changes. Some artists don't like alot of direction when it comes to commissions and having Howard redraw it could make it worse in your eyes. In the last few years his approach to his published art has changed, he usually draws the figures individually and combine them with the background in the computer. I have also seen Howard use a far number of paste ups over his individual figures. So I am not surprised he did something similar with the commission. I don't think he uses much whiteout for corrections with his current works.

I have commissioned Howard twice and have liked both pieces. I tried not to give him too much direction.

 

 

[Rick2you2]

23 minutes ago, Brian Peck said:

A redo just opens it up to other issues. It sounds like you gave some specific instructions for the commission and now you go back to him to make changes. Some artists don't like alot of direction when it comes to commissions and having Howard redraw it could make it worse in your eyes. In the last few years his approach to his published art has changed, he usually draws the figures individually and combine them with the background in the computer. I have also seen Howard use a far number of paste ups over his individual figures. So I am not surprised he did something similar with the commission. I don't think he uses much whiteout for corrections with his current works.

I have commissioned Howard twice and have liked both pieces. I tried not to give him too much direction.

 

 

No. We had agreed to a general layout which I posted earlier. He actually deviated a bit from it if you look at the layout and compare it closely to the final. The head is tilted slightly differently, and the hat has marks indicating ridges which would reflect light (and which should be there).

What I did want, stylistically, is for the face of PS to show anguish. He told me he didn't think he could. I said do your best. He did, and design-wise, I'm okay with it. It was not an easy request. Furthermore, on the paste-up for the face, he got the eyes slits nicely done, along with the mouth and nose. It's the jawline, the weird razor stubble, and the impact of the past-up which makes the face look weird. That's not design. That's faulty execution. Same with the barrel of the hat. It's just a black thing with no highlights. But that one, he didn't fix.

You're right about the computer usage (He Photoshops the panels to merge them). I bought a few from his current run. 

Howard was going out of the country on the day he mailed it to me. I think he got jammed and rushed it through. If you look carefully, you will also notice whiteout on this piece, too.

Furthermore, I don't want him to redraw it. I just want the head fixed. It would also be nice if he could better trim the shoe, but I can live with that. 

Edited December 17, 2017 by Rick2you2
format

[vodou]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

...I just want it to be the best possible Chaykin piece I can get with that subject matter.

This is only going to happen with a new piece. And unless you eat the cost on this and offer 100% again to Howard...he's going to be un-fun to deal with. Unless he's really softened up in his old age? (Always a possibility!)

FYI - 2 months wait is nothing. Not that it should be suffered nor excusable but some folks are a decade+ from some guys. Who? Never commission Art Nichols

[Rick2you2]

1 minute ago, vodou said:

This is only going to happen with a new piece. And unless you eat the cost on this and offer 100% again to Howard...he's going to be un-fun to deal with. Unless he's really softened up in his old age? (Always a possibility!)

Any stories to tell?

[vodou]

1 minute ago, Rick2you2 said:

Any stories to tell?

Nope

But I think now I'm the wrong guy to offer you advice. As much as I like Chaykin art, there's no way I'd go 2x the price of any recent published cover for a cross-your-fingers commission (which is what this was -trust me). I'll take the known quantities every time, especially for half price! Listen to Chris...he's the commission monster around here. I'm bowing out...

[Rick2you2]

47 minutes ago, vodou said:

Nope

But I think now I'm the wrong guy to offer you advice. As much as I like Chaykin art, there's no way I'd go 2x the price of any recent published cover for a cross-your-fingers commission (which is what this was -trust me). I'll take the known quantities every time, especially for half price! Listen to Chris...he's the commission monster around here. I'm bowing out...

Is Chris the same as Comix4you?

I know you are right about the cost of a published recent cover. I have been told the commercial price (to at least to 2 artists) is $1,200 for a cover. 

[Will_K]

My guess is Chaykin won't agree to change or re-do anything.  Especially after it's been discussed here.

Actually, I'm surprised Chaykin even accepts commissions.  At conventions, he'll only draw headshots.  If you're 90% pleased, I'd say that's already a high threshold among all commissions.  I suggest you quit while you're ahead.

 

[Mighty Hal]

4 hours ago, theflashunc said:

I think it works for me. 95% of it is pretty killer, and I tend towards the paste-ups being cool rather than a detraction. Besides, what Chaykin is best known for he nails in spades, and it ain't hats...

This is how I feel. His Tala is terrific, about as good as it gets.

[Brian Peck]

While I understand your issues with the final commission I think it turned out very well. You seem to have a specific idea of what the finished pieces was to be and Chaykin met it. Its the minor editing and changes that you have issues with . For me it seems like a typical published project for him, he made some minor changes after he had drawn it and his using paste ups over whiteout is what is distracting for you. I do agree I don't think Howard will want to revisit this commission. I do know Mitch has sold a few pieces that were rejected commissions so you do have that option. Like many have said commissions can be a shoot. Getting 90% of your expectations I think he pretty good.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Brian Peck

[Matches_Malone]

Put the piece away in your portfolio and do not look at it again in a few month from now.  See how you feel about it then.

[Shemp]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

No. We had agreed to a general layout which I posted earlier. He actually deviated a bit from it if you look at the layout and compare it closely to the final. The head is tilted slightly differently, and the hat has marks indicating ridges which would reflect light (and which should be there).

What I did want, stylistically, is for the face of PS to show anguish. He told me he didn't think he could. I said do your best. He did, and design-wise, I'm okay with it. It was not an easy request. Furthermore, on the paste-up for the face, he got the eyes slits nicely done, along with the mouth and nose. It's the jawline, the weird razor stubble, and the impact of the past-up which makes the face look weird. That's not design. That's faulty execution. Same with the barrel of the hat. It's just a black thing with no highlights. But that one, he didn't fix.

You're right about the computer usage (He Photoshops the panels to merge them). I bought a few from his current run. 

Howard was going out of the country on the day he mailed it to me. I think he got jammed and rushed it through. If you look carefully, you will also notice whiteout on this piece, too.

Furthermore, I don't want him to redraw it. I just want the head fixed. It would also be nice if he could better trim the shoe, but I can live with that. 

Now you're being too picky.

7 minutes ago, Matches_Malone said:

Put the piece away in your portfolio and do not look at it again in a few month from now.  See how you feel about it then.

Don't even think about it for a couple of weeks and then look at it again.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Shemp

[Brian Peck]

41 minutes ago, Will_K said:

My guess is Chaykin won't agree to change or re-do anything.  Especially after it's been discussed here.

Actually, I'm surprised Chaykin even accepts commissions.  At conventions, he'll only draw headshots.  If you're 90% pleased, I'd say that's already a high threshold among all commissions.  I suggest you quit while you're ahead.

 

Howard has been very open to commissions over the last few years. Being Chaykin he has very specific approaches to his projects and commissions. When he did my two pieces I tried to give him the least amount of direction and the greatest freedom. I know his recent work so I want him to have the free to interpret my idea.

[Brian Peck]

Two months is chicken feed! I had to wait 14 months recently for a simple single figure, then after getting a scan of the finished product it took the artist a month tbefore it shipped.

[SquareChaos]

8 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I don't mind square jawed males or females. But, the jaw line here is set to far down from the mouth, and the curves on the side of the face are too rounded for an adult. My guess is that he originally had the face tilted slightly differently, along with a different facial expression, and while he fixed the face, not the jaw. 

This one is always a concern: "This may be a case where you over-engineered the commission and Howard did the best he could within the box you placed him inside." On the other hand, if you don't give the artist detailed direction, you can get some very weird stuff. 

Please understand, I am happy with over 90% of it. The reason I posted this is because I don't know if I am placing too strict a standard on it.

OK, I just noticed this line after reading several others state that if you're 90% happy then get on with it.

Starting this thread at 90% happy is just plain silly. I mean... lets just cut to the chase, 90% happy  means that you're happy with the commission. I begin to wonder what the point was.

[J.Sid]

A $1,500 commission that came back with paste-ups?

The agreement wasn't for "camera-ready lineart" fit for production circa 1985, was it? 

IMO a commission of that dollar amount should be delivered ready to be framed and hung on a wall. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Peck]

1 hour ago, J.Sid said:

A $1,500 commission that came back with paste-ups?

The agreement wasn't for "camera-ready lineart" fit for production circa 1985, was it? 

IMO a commission of that dollar amount should be delivered ready to be framed and hung on a wall. 

 

 

 

 

 

But that is how Chaykin produces the current comic books he works on. Back in the 80s he would use whiteout not pasting replacemnt art. Not sure when he switched over to his new process.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Brian Peck

[J.Sid]

55 minutes ago, Brian Peck said:

But that is how Chaykin does produces the current comic books he produces. Back in the 80s he would use whiteout not pasting replacemnt art. Not sure when he switched over to his new process.

He's not producing a comic book page for a publisher to use in a book. This is not intended to be scanned/cleaned up/colored and printed. It's a commission for an art collector who is paying much more than his typical page rate.

 

[J.Sid]

The whole reason we overlook those things is because comic book OA was intended to be a step in the publishing process. What the guy requested from Howard is different.