Your critiques of a Chaykin Commission, please 2 2

[Bird]

There are many issues worth discussing in this case, but it seems to boil down to "what are the rights after delivery". I have halted most commissions (still on a list here and there, even after a few years now...looking at you Art Adams and JHW3 and Travis Charest!) but a standard point that needs addressing BEFORE finalizing the commission is "what if I don't like it?" I always thought this was a pass/fail thing and never considered asking for edits. I don't think it is worth it, basically saying "you could do this better, please do so". 

[Bronty]

4 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

I would rather let him pick the amount and ask me if I am okay with it. That way, he will be satisfied he is getting fairly paid, and reasonably paid. 

FYI, $500 is a lot for the amount of work I think this needs. I've gotten really good commissions for that.

I know its a lot; I think 1500 was a lot too.   Just picking an amount that to me would make up for the hassle involved including discussions with you, receiving the art back, mailing it back, what if you don't like it again, etc.    And I'm trying on top of all that to go on the high end to make it worth his while and leave everybody happy.    I get that the # is subjective. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Bronty

[cstojano]

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

Blade Runner 2049.  Definitely going to have to give that one a second viewing.  Not to convince myself I liked it.  Just to catch up on all the parts I fell asleep to . . . seriously.

Funny, I was thinking of two movies when I made that comment: BR 2049 and every SW movie released since 1999.

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

I know its a lot; I think 1500 was a lot too.   Just picking an amount that to me would make up for the hassle involved including discssions with you, receiving the art back, mailing it back, what if you don't like it again, etc.    And I'm trying on top of all that to go on the high end to make it worth his while and leave everybody happy.    I get that the # is subjective. 

Part of the cost of doing business is making customers happy. It can also generate new business and referrals.

I would definitely hire him again even with these things. Another way to look at a paste up is that he cares. That matters a lot to me, too.

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, Bird said:

There are many issues worth discussing in this case, but it seems to boil down to "what are the rights after delivery". I have halted most commissions (still on a list here and there, even after a few years now...looking at you Art Adams and JHW3 and Travis Charest!) but a standard point that needs addressing BEFORE finalizing the commission is "what if I don't like it?" I always thought this was a pass/fail thing and never considered asking for edits. I don't think it is worth it, basically saying "you could do this better, please do so". 

I think there is a difference between like/dislike and an error. I consider the jawline an error. I also think an artist should always fix an error. The hat is a close call. 

[NelsonAI]

Since you asked on a public forum .....

If you are willing to throw in another $500, I think it can easily be enhanced. 

1) Everything below the jaw line and his lips to his neck can be filled in with black.  It will look like his head is tilted down and create a shadow effect down his neck.  Test it out on a photocopy.  

2) The paste up can be trimmed with an exacto knife, (essentially a razor blade with a long handle), around the shoe. 

3) Add some thin wavy lines in the background to give it a mist or smoke effect.

All the best.

Cheers!

N.

 

[J.Sid]

I like the idea of the aforementioned sticky thread for commission experiences. Someone should start one. (Not it!)

[The Voord]

7 hours ago, NelsonAI said:

The paste up can be trimmed with an exacto knife, (essentially a razor blade with a long handle), around the shoe. 

 

I was thinking the same thing myself.  Only problem here is that you need to know the exact placement of what artwork lies underneath the paste-up , otherwise you might end up with a revealed overspill of a first-attempt foot extending outside of the corrected version.

I'd definitely want the designer stubble removed (white-out?), as no self-respecting PS should ever bee seen in public like that.

[Rick2you2]

9 hours ago, NelsonAI said:

Since you asked on a public forum .....

If you are willing to throw in another $500, I think it can easily be enhanced. 

1) Everything below the jaw line and his lips to his neck can be filled in with black.  It will look like his head is tilted down and create a shadow effect down his neck.  Test it out on a photocopy.  

2) The paste up can be trimmed with an exacto knife, (essentially a razor blade with a long handle), around the shoe. 

3) Add some thin wavy lines in the background to give it a mist or smoke effect.

All the best.

Cheers!

N.

 

Interesting thoughts. Can something be done to reduce the profile of the hat's barrel and add some curves plus light spots (like on a fedora)? It keeps pulling my eyes away from Tala.

Also, would you actually make these types of suggestions to the artist, or would that be considered as intrusive? I don't want to interfere with the creative process, and he may have other ideas. 

By the way, I don't see that as $500 worth of work, particularly if I'm paying shipping both ways and he has assistants who can remove and re-position paste-ups. I think they also do some of his background work. Another reason for him to set the price.

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

I was thinking the same thing myself.  Only problem here is that you need to know the exact placement of what artwork lies underneath the paste-up , otherwise you might end up with a revealed overspill of a first-attempt foot extending outside of the corrected version.

I'd definitely want the designer stubble removed (white-out?), as no self-respecting PS should ever bee seen in public like that.

Can the stubble be removed without it looking worse?

[Rick2you2]

Just as a general comment, all of your contributions to this thread are appreciated, and you ought to feel free to add more. It's been helping me frame my own thoughts and potential responses in ways I could not do without them. 

And I guess I should go see Blade Runner 2049 after all (although probably not until it hits cable because it's out of the theaters here).  

[PhilipB2k17]

On 12/17/2017 at 12:15 PM, stinkininkin said:

I think with commissions, you take your chances and as long as he delivered on time and made a good faith effort at meeting your criteria, it's time to move on.  Being a buyer does not give one the license to be an art director after the fact (again, as long as the artist makes that good faith effort).  There are inherent risks with commissions, and many on this board have had great successes.  I've only tried commissions twice and they were disasters both times.  I've decided getting commissions are not my thing.  But that's just me.

 

The people who collect artist commissions should watch the film: The Agony & the Ecstasy  

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0058886/

[F For Fake]

13 hours ago, The Voord said:

Blade Runner 2049.  Definitely going to have to give that one a second viewing.  Not to convince myself I liked it.  Just to catch up on all the parts I fell asleep to . . . seriously.

I think it's probably the most beautiful film I ever nodded off to in a theater. 

[The Voord]

5 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

I think it's probably the most beautiful film I ever nodded off to in a theater. 

Falling asleep for parts of the movie are like a reduced director's-cut version for me and probably brought the viewing time down to around 110 minutes . . .

[The Voord]

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

Can the stubble be removed without it looking worse?

Any use of white-out would be problematic unless you can get an even blend of colour that matches the illustration board shade, so difficult to determine.  

Really, this should have been a flawlessly executed piece of work, ready for framing, without the need for glaringly obvious production artwork type corrections.  Working for printed comic-book pages (and the tricks-of-the-trade it involves) vs. artwork specifically designed to be showcased (as drawn) are not quite the same in my book.  If corrections were needed on your commission, they should have been more seamlessly performed.

I understand both sides of the argument on this scenario, but at $1,500 I personally would have expected a higher degree of finish as , to my mind, what you got looks a bit of a mess in parts. 

[lobrac]

Do you have a scan of the back of the piece of art that we can see? 

 

(joke!)

[Rick2you2]

8 hours ago, The Voord said:

I understand both sides of the argument on this scenario, but at $1,500 I personally would have expected a higher degree of finish as , to my mind, what you got looks a bit of a mess in parts. 

Honestly, so would I. But that's what I have. While I would hope he can fix it a bit, all I can ultimately do is pretend its Howard's Venus de milo.

[Michael (OML)1]

22 hours ago, NelsonAI said:

Since you asked on a public forum .....

If you are willing to throw in another $500, I think it can easily be enhanced. 

1) Everything below the jaw line and his lips to his neck can be filled in with black.  It will look like his head is tilted down and create a shadow effect down his neck.  Test it out on a photocopy.  

2) The paste up can be trimmed with an exacto knife, (essentially a razor blade with a long handle), around the shoe. 

3) Add some thin wavy lines in the background to give it a mist or smoke effect.

All the best.

Cheers!

N.

 

Agree re: exacto knife - I was thinking the same thing

[williamhlawson]

Once looooong ago, a commission took place.  I got it, I thought something was henky (aka...our hat/beard).  I CONTACTED the artist, SPOKE to the artist, explained that I loved 99.9% of anything I'd ever seen done by him and that it was a tragedy the commission wasn't one of them and explained our hat/beard, he agreed he could have done more to fix/disappear our hat/beard.  He sent another PERFECTLY executed and I returned the first.  Done,hugs,happiness.  Communicate with the artist directly and you will get a better outcome.  Its okay to be critical, not okay to look for things to be critical about, my 2.5c (inflation).

[Nexus]

As others have noted, commissions are a shoot. When it's all said and done, you get what you get. Anyone who doesn't like the sound of that, should stick to art that's already been done, that they can evaluate before deciding to buy.

When I get commissions as a collector, I just eat the ones I'm not totally happy with, and I move on. So long as I believe the artist gave it an honest effort, but I simply didn't like the finished piece, we'll remain on good terms and I might even try again. But if I think the artist half-assed it, then we're done.

As a rep, I've handled hundreds of commissions for collectors. I can't guarantee that everyone will love the art they get (although vast majority are very happy), all I can do is make sure the artist gives it an honest effort. I think, reasonably, that's all anyone can ask.

So, do I think Chaykin gave it an honest effort here? Overall, I do. The paste-up is problematic, but everything else looks like the art he's producing these days. Personally, I wouldn't throw any more money at it. My advice, move on. I wish you better luck next time. But if you continue to get commissions, know that it will very likely happen again.