AVATAR 2 THE WAY OF WATER starring Sam Worthington (2022) 2 2

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/9/2023 at 12:38 PM, Bosco685 said:

I recognize at times it feels like the Comic Book genre takes hits from long-standing cinema leaders. Yet I also read between the lines the messaging is directed at the studios chasing the biggest box office numbers versus the CBM creators, actors and moviegoers. Studios jumped the shark seeing the MCU model take off massively, and have tried to mirror this at the sacrifice of non-franchise productions that just want to tell a unique story.

It's not really directed at we the fans, or even the comic book companies we very much appreciate.

If that’s the case, then my answer to Mr Scorsese Coppola etc is…it’s called capitalism. The market says general moviegoers prefer movies about fast cars, superheroes, and dinosaurs over movies about the struggles of Jesuit priests in 16th century Japan. However, Mr Cameron is like the personification of capitalism in movies. The guy knows how to get people in theaters. IMO his recent jabs at superhero comic book movies are that he just simply thinks his movies are more mature than them. And IMO, Titanic, Avatar, Alita, and Avatar Way of Water are not more mature films than the best MCU or DC movies of the past 15 years.

Edited January 12, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:45 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

If that’s the case, then my answer to Mr Scorsese Coppola etc is…it’s called capitalism. The market says general moviegoers prefer movies about fast cars, superheroes, and dinosaurs over movies about the struggles of Jesuit priests in 16th century Japan. However, Mr Cameron is like the personification of capitalism in movies. The guy knows how to get people in theaters. IMO his recent jabs at superhero comic book movies are that he just simply thinks his movies are more mature than them. And IMO, Titanic, Avatar, Alita, and Avatar Way of Water are not more mature films than the best MCU or DC movies of the past 15 years.

You forgot to summarize at the beginning, "My fanatical MCU feelings were hurt by some of their statements so I have an itch to scratch!"

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:27 PM, Bosco685 said:

You forgot to summarize at the beginning, "My fanatical MCU feelings were hurt by some of their statements so I have an itch to scratch!"

Not really. James Cameron put the statement out there which has been covered ad nauseum by the press. And it was a big statement, that comic book superhero movies don't properly portray family life, that the heroes all act like college kids, meaning those films are inferior and that Avatar Way of Water will show us how it's done. Fair enough. Show me. I saw the movie. And in my opinion, Avatar Way of Water is a fairly weak portrayal of family life. As I stated above, yes, Sully had kids, but other than the sweet bowfishing scene at the beginning, when do we see any real relationship building between Sully and his kids, other than him saving them from Sky People or scolding them for screwing up when he wasn't around. Even when they strike out on their own to the N'avi sea village, the kids do their own thing and we hardly see Sully except when he's hanging out with King or saving the kids from Sky People or yelling at them. My conclusion is that Mr Cameron is simply not a good enough writer to properly convey meaningful family dynamics in a movie. His family might as well be a bunch of college kids.

[Bosco685]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:48 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Not really. James Cameron put the statement out there which has been covered ad nauseum by the press. And it was a big statement, that comic book superhero movies don't properly portray family life, that the heroes all act like college kids, meaning those films are inferior and that Avatar Way of Water will show us how it's done. Fair enough. Show me. I saw the movie. And in my opinion, Avatar Way of Water is a fairly weak portrayal of family life. As I stated above, yes, Sully had kids, but other than the sweet bowfishing scene at the beginning, when do we see any real relationship building between Sully and his kids, other than him saving them from Sky People or scolding them for screwing up when he wasn't around. Even when they strike out on their own to the N'avi sea village, the kids do their own thing and we hardly see Sully except when he's hanging out with King or saving the kids from Sky People or yelling at them. My conclusion is that Mr Cameron is simply not a good enough writer to properly convey meaningful family dynamics in a movie. His family might as well be a bunch of college kids.

You're taking his statements too personal. Just like when Martin Scorsese made his statement.

An interesting article on the topic.

James Cameron Has a Point About Superhero Movies - and Avatar 2 Proves It

Quote

Over the years, many directors, such as Martin Scorsese, have taken shots at comic book and superhero movies. These auteurs think popcorn flicks are ruining cinema, turning artistic endeavors into soulless cash-grabbing products. Of course, some back these takes, while others take issue with their opinions, adopting a live-and-let-live mentality.

 

Avatar 2 Worldbuilds Pretty Quickly

 

Admittedly, DC and Marvel need a lot to world build, whether for the Justice League or The Avengers. It's why these tentpole movies require trilogies, spinoffs on TV, post-credit stingers and forced cameos. Sure, some moments, like Thanos' teases, feel natural, but in most cases, the studios are turning a snowball into an avalanche, which they hope will create box office gold down the line.

 

In the two Avatar movies, on the other hand, Cameron doesn't need a mammoth of tie-ins to create a cohesive universe. The first film focuses on Jake and Neytiri stopping Colonel Quaritch and Co. from finding unobtanium, while the second involves a reborn Quaritch trying to take out Jake. However, it moves from the jungles with the Omatikaya clan to the seas with the Metkayina. And the thing is, it's not just a visual spectacle -- Jake's family trains and adapts to this new way of life and forges a bond with this offshoot of the Na'vi species.

What he did with two movies other franchises take 5-6 films to achieve. That's the main point. Something for other studios to reflect on.

[Larryw7]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:45 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

If that’s the case, then my answer to Mr Scorsese Coppola etc is…it’s called capitalism. The market says general moviegoers prefer movies about fast cars, superheroes, and dinosaurs over movies about the struggles of Jesuit priests in 16th century Japan. 

Which is a damn shame. Silence is a masterpiece based on a great work of.literature that delves into every feeling and fear that men face: transcendence, despair, fear, love, hate, having to choose between faith and death, protecting those you love and so much more. Not one film from the MCU comes within a mile of touching it. I would say the same about DC as well, but at least they have had true auteurs who tried to bring something different to the genre(Nolan, Snyder, and Reeves). 

[paperheart]

On 1/12/2023 at 8:45 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

If that’s the case, then my answer to Mr Scorsese Coppola etc is…it’s called capitalism. The market says general moviegoers prefer movies about fast cars, superheroes, and dinosaurs over movies about the struggles of Jesuit priests in 16th century Japan. However, Mr Cameron is like the personification of capitalism in movies. The guy knows how to get people in theaters. IMO his recent jabs at superhero comic book movies are that he just simply thinks his movies are more mature than them. And IMO, Titanic, Avatar, Alita, and Avatar Way of Water are not more mature films than the best MCU or DC movies of the past 15 years.

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. “The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly.” H.L. Mencken

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:28 PM, paperheart said:

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. “The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly.” H.L. Mencken

Marvel Studios may have overestimated the intelligence of a portion of those masses. 

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

[Gatsby77]

Sweet!

Looks like Avatar 2 has broken even theatrically! 

[Bosco685]

On 1/15/2023 at 4:38 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Sweet!

Looks like Avatar 2 has broken even theatrically! 

[Bosco685]

On 1/10/2023 at 11:54 AM, drotto said:

Ah, the release even women in their 30's and 40's has been waiting for.  My sister-in-law has watched this movie so many times it would make your head hurt.

Three films - one director. Incredible.

[media_junkie]

On 1/15/2023 at 4:20 PM, Bosco685 said:

The thing that jumps out at me on that list is how poorly Furious 7 did at the Domestic box office compared to all the other films.  Had the international crowd not come out that movie would not have done well at all.

[Bosco685]

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Bosco685