AVATAR 2 THE WAY OF WATER starring Sam Worthington (2022) 2 2

[Bosco685]

Talk about surpassing earlier predictions.

[Straw-Man]

i like that 2 post-'rona flicks make the top-10.   theater-going not dead!

[drotto]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:30 PM, Straw-Man said:

i like that 2 post-'rona flicks make the top-10.   theater-going not dead!

I am so sick of the -rona excuse.  When a movie comes in under expectations, lets just admit the movie was either not as good or not as popular then the industry though it was going to be.

[Bosco685]

Quote

Declining a mere 33% this weekend, Avatar 2 looks increasingly likely to reach the $2 billion threshold despite initial doubts it would have the momentum to carry it to such a dizzying figure. But here we are once more, passing around servings of crow to naysayers who insisted this was finally going to be the time when doubting Cameron would pay off.

 

The result was enough early strong word of mouth and repeat business to lift the film over several humps, including a lower-than-expected opening, China’s box office suppressed by out of control Covid spread, a lack of release in Russia due to that country’s ongoing war of aggression against Ukraine, and a domestic surge of Covid-flu-RSV and inflation that slowed theatrical attendance.

 

Now, Avatar: The Way of Water looks unstoppable and has little competition for several more weeks. Even with school getting back in session and things returning to semi-normal after the holidays, the film should still enjoy plenty of high turnout and continued box office dominance until Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania arrives on February 17th.

 

That is, unless James Cameron himself becomes his own competition on February 10th when Titanic returns to theaters in remastered 4K HDR and 3D, which will take up some of the premium cinema formats — IMAX and Dolby Cinema — that are currently providing great returns for Avatar: The Way of Water. I don’t think Titanic will put a major dent in Avatar 2’s performance, but it will certainly attract a decent amount of attention and attendance, and it will be interesting to see just how much of a hit the remastered 3D version becomes.

 

[Jaydogrules]

On 1/8/2023 at 11:26 AM, Bosco685 said:

 

Lots of obnoxious propaganda mixed in with this guy's analysis.  Just tell me about the movie and the numbers, man.  

Somebody needs to reign him in a bit with that.  

-J.

[Bosco685]

On 1/8/2023 at 3:26 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Lots of obnoxious propaganda mixed in with this guy's analysis.  Just tell me about the movie and the numbers, man.  

Somebody needs to reign him in a bit with that.  

-J.

Well. You should go into the industry analysis business. They need such mindsets with these details.

[Jaydogrules]

On 1/8/2023 at 12:32 PM, Bosco685 said:

Well. You should go into the industry analysis business. They need such mindsets with these details.

Nah I have a real job already.  

-J.

[Bosco685]

On 1/8/2023 at 3:34 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Nah I have a real job already.  

-J.

Although not as big a following yet as Scott Mendelson, Mark Hughes has around 19K followers that appreciate his reporting. And he does get access to early screenings and creative interviews.

We all have our styles. His seems to work the Forbes audience.

[sledgehammer]

If this makes it to $700MM domestic, it will crack the top 30 films domestic adjusted for inflation.

The first film it will pass is Jurassic World.

Titanic is at $1.24 Billion domestic.

[paperheart]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:30 AM, Straw-Man said:

i like that 2 post-'rona flicks make the top-10.   theater-going not dead!

these by the $ lists are becoming increasingly meaningless, average ticket prices up 60% since Avatar was released

[sledgehammer]

On 1/8/2023 at 3:32 PM, paperheart said:

these by the $ lists are becoming increasingly meaningless, average ticket prices up 60% since Avatar was released

It's always been a bunch of stupid rhetoric.

"Passion of the Christ is the highest grossing domestic R rated film ever!"

Adjusted for inflation, the Exorcist is over $1 billion.

[Gatsby77]

On 1/8/2023 at 4:47 PM, sledgehammer said:

It's always been a bunch of stupid rhetoric.

"Passion of the Christ is the highest grossing domestic R rated film ever!"

Adjusted for inflation, the Exorcist is over $1 billion.

Ditto - Beverly Hills Cop's $300+ million, nearly 40 years ago now, smokes almost all of the "top R-rated" films of the last 20 years when you adjust for inflation.

To put it in perspective, it was the # 1 film in the country for 14 weeks.

[Jaydogrules]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:42 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Ditto - Beverly Hills Cop's $300+ million, nearly 40 years ago now, smokes almost all of the "top R-rated" films of the last 20 years when you adjust for inflation.

To put it in perspective, it was the # 1 film in the country for 14 weeks.

Problem Is, when you "adjust for inflation" , no movie will ever measure up to Gone with the Wind- which was the:"#1 movie", for what, 5 years? (Because there were no other movies or much of anything else on the order of entertainment that we have today.)

-J.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Jaydogrules

[Larryw7]

Tons of movies were released in the late thirties and forties, many of them were box office smashes. But grosses weren't followed the way they are today. GWTW has been heavily tracked since it was rereleased so many times, same with Snow White. As for other entertainment, there was a war going on, and people actually went out with other people and went to live shows, night clubs and other diversions. 

[sledgehammer]

On 1/8/2023 at 5:41 PM, Larryw7 said:

Tons of movies were released in the late thirties and forties, many of them were box office smashes. But grosses weren't followed the way they are today.

It's based on tickets sold. Something like 4 of the top 50 all time adjusted for inflation were released before 1960.

Star Wars.  $1.6 billion adjusted for inflation domestic.

What was the first release? 85% of that? More??

Edited January 9, 2023 by sledgehammer

[Gatsby77]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:19 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Problem Is, when you "adjust for inflation" , no movie will ever measure up to Gone with the Wind- which was the:"#1 movie", for what, 5 years? (Because there were no other movies or much of anything else on the order of entertainment that we have today.)

-J.

Sure...but still a world of difference between cinema in 1939 - vs. cinema in the '70s (when The Exorcist & Star Wars came out) to present.

Inflation metrics for more modern films -- i.e., comparing total tickets sold -- are absolutely relevant.

Anyone who claims Passion of the Christ (or Joker, or the Deadpool movies) are the "top R-rated films" simply isn't correct, even just counting the modern era.

The problem's even more pronounced in TV. Because of channel proliferation, it's doubtful *any* scripted show will surpass the live viewership of the last episode of M*A*S*H* (again, 40 years ago). 

[Bosco685]

 

[sledgehammer]

On 1/8/2023 at 8:50 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Anyone who claims Passion of the Christ (or Joker, or the Deadpool movies) are the "top R-rated films" simply isn't correct, even just counting the modern era.

The Godfather is #25 on the all-time list at around $720MM adjusted for inflation. 

The Godfather 2 did about 30% as well in ticket sales.

[@therealsilvermane]

During the press tour leading up to Avatar Way of Water, James Cameron said:

“When I look at these big, spectacular films — I’m looking at you, Marvel and DC — it doesn’t matter how old the characters are, they all act like they’re in college. They have relationships, but they really don’t. They never hang up their spurs because of their kids. The things that really ground us and give us power, love, and a purpose? Those characters don’t experience it, and I think that’s not the way to make movies.”

First, super-heroes like Superman, Spider-Man, or Captain America don't hang up their spurs in a super-hero world because of that great power great responsibility thing. Do U.S. military soldiers, sailors, and airmen retire just because they have kids? No. Neither do super-heroes.

Second, particularly in the MCU, some super-heroes totally base their actions on their children or dependents. Tony Stark in Endgame refused to help the ragtag Avengers initially because of his new family life, though the great power great responsibility thing won out in the end.

If Cameron's point is that Avatar Way of Water is a more mature approach to blockbuster moviemaking, I'm not sure this movie is a prime example. IMO, Way of Water might be one of his most infantile movies to date, not because the story is like 65% kids, but because of the storytelling.

Edited January 9, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

**spoilers**

So if James Cameron thinks super-hero movie heroes act like "college kids", Avatar Way of Water's heroes and villains act like Saturday morning cartoon characters, even if the main characters have kids now. And when WoW's heroes or villains do attempt to act in a more three dimensional way, it sometimes doesn't make sense or seems cheap. Why would Spider suddenly start helping out the Sky People he knows are bad? Why do the children of the Sea King basically attempt to murder Sully's youngest son? Cameron does give tiny sparks for such character turns, but betrayal and murder seem a little drastic. Cameron never really gives us any relationship development between Quaritch and Spider to justify them caring if the other lives or dies. 

And what was the motivation for the Sky People this time around? Was it unobtanium? Was it amrita? Was it vengeance? It was a little confusing. In the first movie, the Sky People's motivation was clear: corporate interest in unobtanium. 

The plot of the first Avatar movie was pretty simple: Dances With Wolves in space. Way of Water was a lot messier narratively. I guess it was a little like Avatar meets Finding Nemo meets Titanic meets Swiss Family Robinson but not as good as any of those movies? 

The movie was full of logic problems (to me), plot holes, weird character turns, and redundant plot points. How many times were those poor kids going to be held at gunpoint by Quaritch? By the third time, I was like, "what's the point? They're just gonna get caught again." For a movie about family, Sully and Neytiri always seem absent from their kids lives until it's too late. Even during the big fight, I was like "is somebody gonna untie those poor kids already?" And Neteyam, the oldest son, leaves his sisters alone so they can go get Spider which ends up having horrible consequences for everybody? Such cruel justice for these kids trying to do good.

On the plus side, it all looked great (except for the weird 48p projection which made it look like video) and I did like Sully's kids when they weren't moping.