STAR WARS : Episode IX December 20, 2019 6 6

[Larryw7]

On 7/27/2018 at 11:00 PM, mattn792 said:

At least one will be a Jar Jar origin story.

I would actually enjoy that. After all, Jar Jar was actually a Sith...maybe. 

[Prince Namor]

13 hours ago, Mr Sneeze said:

Chuck, I always enjoy your posts. I appreciate you taking time out to express your opinion. There is nothing in your post that I take issue with but I guess I’m tired of having to explain that my not caring for TLJ is not related to some fanboy angst. Personally I don’t like being associated with a group that has done some very offensive things on social media. I agree whole heartedly, f-um!

I have said on more than one occasion that I feel TLJ is a poorly made film. I not hiding behind anything when I say that. I feel it is poorly paced, the humor is ill timed and out of place, plot holes so big that I can’t suspend my disbelief – and that’s saying something for a Star Wars flick. There are large portions of the film that amount to nothing. I like the new cast and never expected the old cast to be overly prominent, it should go without saying really. I guess my biggest problem was that it seemed to parody itself which is a vibe I wasn’t comfortable with and never sensed in any other Star Wars film, even the prequels, which I liked by the way citing at the time they were consistent with a 10 year old mentality and not getting the fanboy backlash. Some movies walk a fine line between brilliant/terrible and I just fell on the wrong side as far as this film is concerned – maybe I was grumpy that day (Ragnarok being another that walks that fine line but I thought phenomenal.) To its credit there were scenes I thought were incredible and others that very artful but as a whole it just didn’t hold up for me. It’s weird really because Star Wars is not an area I’ve been overly critical of in the past.

I like what you said in an earlier post about wanting something new. I agree, and maybe the chip I have is because I’m looking for a Star Wars film to furnish that. Since the original trilogy came out – movies that at the time and to this day I felt were resolved and didn’t require a follow up - we have been served a backstory (the prequels), a remake of the first – and I say again JJ made a great movie but Star Killer base, really? – Rouge One / Solo, more backstories. But The Last Jedi did break some new ground so I’m really sad that I don’t like it, almost mad – but not so sad or (almost)mad that I’m shedding tears on my Phantom Menace pillow shams.

It is just a movie after all.

And I think most of the people here who don't like it are probably from the same mindset - that it has nothing to do with that subset of haters.

My point is and always will be on this: Anyone's opinion on it is fine. We all have our own opinion's.

But when people start stating their opinion's as fact, on a public message board - there's always going to be someone to call them out on it.

It's a fact you think it's a bad movie. It's a fact you think it's a poorly made film.

It's not a fact that's a bad, poorly made film.

 

I'm not debating anyone's opinion. I'm not even saying they're wrong for having that opinion.

But for anyone stating it as fact... I just can't accept that.

[Mr Sneeze]

3 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

And I think most of the people here who don't like it are probably from the same mindset - that it has nothing to do with that subset of haters.

My point is and always will be on this: Anyone's opinion on it is fine. We all have our own opinion's.

But when people start stating their opinion's as fact, on a public message board - there's always going to be someone to call them out on it.

It's a fact you think it's a bad movie. It's a fact you think it's a poorly made film.

It's not a fact that's a bad, poorly made film.

 

I'm not debating anyone's opinion. I'm not even saying they're wrong for having that opinion.

But for anyone stating it as fact... I just can't accept that.

I 100% agree with you.

[Azkaban]

3 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

And I think most of the people here who don't like it are probably from the same mindset - that it has nothing to do with that subset of haters.

My point is and always will be on this: Anyone's opinion on it is fine. We all have our own opinion's.

But when people start stating their opinion's as fact, on a public message board - there's always going to be someone to call them out on it.

It's a fact you think it's a bad movie. It's a fact you think it's a poorly made film.

It's not a fact that's a bad, poorly made film.

 

I'm not debating anyone's opinion. I'm not even saying they're wrong for having that opinion.

But for anyone stating it as fact... I just can't accept that.

accept it come to the dark side 

 

 

[darkstar]

19 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

And you have ZERO proof to back this up?

I know it's what a handful of Star Wars fans WANT to see. But nothing I've seen or read by any real source with knowledge has given any indication that its true.

I mean, all the guy did with his one opportunity with the brand was make the 8th highest grossing movie of all time, that was also the biggest selling DVD of 2018 (outselling even Black Panther).

Why would Disney see that as a BAD thing???

Because some fanboys didn't like it?

Because it is common sense? 

A Star Wars movie made money? Who cares? It's a Star Wars movie backed by Disney with access to characters/actors from the original trilogy; it's a layup. You could poop in a box, label it Star Wars, and it would sell.

Why isn't Johnson actually going to be tasked with handling an entire trilogy by himself? Because the Last Jedi was a terrible movie. It wasn't  or nondescript like the Force Awakens, it was straight up bad. What does everyone talk about after first seeing the movie? That scene where the one ship goes really fast into that other ship and breaks it in half. So an effects shot. Wow! If the most memorable thing about the 2nd part of a trilogy is how one scene looked cool, then you have a problem as a filmmaker. 

The way the movie is written the viewer would have no idea that it was a sequel or that another film would be following it. Setups from the first movie are completely abandoned and the explanation for how we got from the end of Force Awakens to the beginning of Last Jedi doesn't exist. In fact, Johnson's awareness that his movie is part of something bigger is completely non-existent and the tone of the film is absurd. Remember at the end of the Last Jedi when Rey is about to return the lightsaber to Luke and it was supposed to be a poignant moment where Rey was about to cry? Why does that scene conclude at the beginning of Last Jedi with Luke throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder and the scene being played for laughs? Why does Johnson go out of his way to insert bad jokes and slapstick into every pivotal scene in the movie, totally bringing the viewer out of the experience?   

Also if you are going to dismiss ANY criticism of the film as irrational hatred from fanboys, this conversation isn't worth my time. The dislike for this movie is more than a just a "handful" (ridiculous that you make that assertion) of nerds. Look at the audience score on RT, is that because of Russian hackers? Why would anyone be surprised that the biggest fans of Star Wars are the most vocal about it on the internet? That should surprise nobody. 

Do you really think those in charge of Star Wars are going to put the responsibility of creating three more movies in the hands of someone whose first attempt was at best a mixed result? Why would Disney task someone who is still incessantly trolling the Star Wars fanbase on social media months after his movie released to be the brand's ambassador for the better part of a decade?

Disney has publicly announced that Johnson is going to make a trilogy going forward because they want it to make it look like they have a plan in place (because they clearly didn't for this first trilogy). At best Johnson will be given one more opportunity to make a Star Wars movie (likely with a team of writers this time) as a reward for Last Jedi's box office and then he'll be dismissed. 

 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

8 minutes ago, darkstar said:

You could poop in a box, label it Star Wars, and it would sell.

I respectfully disagree. I had mine listed on ebay as a BIN for months and it didn't sell, even with detailed interior shots.

Maybe if I rolled it in glitter though.... 

[Mr Sneeze]

There are an awful lot of people who liked TLJ. My nephew and I love discussing movies, indeed it is the thread that keeps us in touch as adults. We can talk for hours on how we were blown away by a movie like Annihilation, but stare at each other in disbelief over TLJ. He thinks it's awesome and he's not the only one. He's younger and has no attachment to the originals and hated the prequels. Maybe the Disney movies are a way in to a franchise that held no interest before. It certainly jibed with a lot of people despite what I feel about it.

I haven't seen Solo but I don't understand why anyone would have given it that release date. I wouldn't release a fantasy film a half a year within Infinity War, that's just stupid. I don't think it was fan backlash so much as bad timing both from Star Wars and market fatigue and a combination of a movie that has no real priority or urgency. Even if I had loved TLJ I would not have rushed out to see it.

I think we have to wait and see what happens. I don't what fan backlash and focus groups to dictate what is going to happen, it's part of the reason I'm fond of the prequels if for no other reason than they were Lucas's property to do with as he pleased and he was in a position to say 'don't like them, tough!' And a lot of people didn't! But many did as well, the point for me being the Art/Entertainment/Product is going to suffer if the makers are worried about the response. The best things happen in art with a F-you attitude to an extent. You're never going to please everyone.

[ComicConnoisseur]

5 hours ago, Mr Sneeze said:

I haven't seen Solo but I don't understand why anyone would have given it that release date. I wouldn't release a fantasy film a half a year within Infinity War, that's just stupid. I don't think it was fan backlash so much as bad timing both from Star Wars and market fatigue and a combination of a movie that has no real priority or urgency. Even if I had loved TLJ I would not have rushed out to see it.

Right now Solo is currently sitting in sixth place on box office mojo for yearly best box office 2018. Only five other movies did bigger box office in 2018.

It is kind of strange the perception Solo gets at being a dud.

An example is Solo opened at 84 million,while Mission Impossible : Fallout just opened to 61 million.

so Solo at 84 million is considered dud,while Mission Impossible Fallout is considered a hit.

lol.

[ComicConnoisseur]

To put it into more perspective is Ant-Man and Wasp opened to 76 million which still trails Solo at 84 million opening.

 

 

[RedRaven]

1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

To put it into more perspective is Ant-Man and Wasp opened to 76 million which still trails Solo at 84 million opening.

 

 

 

To put it into even more perspective, Antman2 has out-performed Han Solo globally. And only trails domestically by 14 percent (and that will only narrow from this point out). 

[Prince Namor]

On 7/29/2018 at 11:26 AM, darkstar said:

Because it is common sense? 

 

 

One of the most common errors that people make in thinking, is to cherry pick information to make want they want to believe to sound true.

"people are saying' is not a collection of factual information. It's a method of misinformation.

Quote

A Star Wars movie made money? Who cares?

 

Disney cares. They're a business in business to make money. 

Quote

It's a Star Wars movie backed by Disney with access to characters/actors from the original trilogy; it's a layup. You could poop in a box, label it Star Wars, and it would sell.

 

Solo Director Ron Howard would beg to differ.

Quote

Why isn't Johnson actually going to be tasked with handling an entire trilogy by himself?

 

There is NO ONE in an official capacity who has said he isn't. Again, you're projecting what you WANT to believe. You have no facts.

The last anyone has heard from Disney, the deal is SIGNED and in place. Johnson has spoken about it on his Twitter currently that its on. One of the producers has spoken about it recently that its still on. 

Quote

Because the Last Jedi was a terrible movie.

 

That's your opinion, not fact.

Quote

It wasn't  or nondescript like the Force Awakens, it was straight up bad. What does everyone talk about after first seeing the movie? That scene where the one ship goes really fast into that other ship and breaks it in half. So an effects shot. Wow! If the most memorable thing about the 2nd part of a trilogy is how one scene looked cool, then you have a problem as a filmmaker. 

The way the movie is written the viewer would have no idea that it was a sequel or that another film would be following it. Setups from the first movie are completely abandoned and the explanation for how we got from the end of Force Awakens to the beginning of Last Jedi doesn't exist. In fact, Johnson's awareness that his movie is part of something bigger is completely non-existent and the tone of the film is absurd. Remember at the end of the Last Jedi when Rey is about to return the lightsaber to Luke and it was supposed to be a poignant moment where Rey was about to cry? Why does that scene conclude at the beginning of Last Jedi with Luke throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder and the scene being played for laughs? Why does Johnson go out of his way to insert bad jokes and slapstick into every pivotal scene in the movie, totally bringing the viewer out of the experience?  

2

All opinion. Not fact.

Quote

Also if you are going to dismiss ANY criticism of the film as irrational hatred from fanboys, this conversation isn't worth my time.

 

I never dismissed anyone's criticism. I've said numerous times, everyone is entitled to their opinion on it. 

My problem is when people think their opinion is the only one that is truth. 

Quote

The dislike for this movie is more than a just a "handful" (ridiculous that you make that assertion) of nerds. Look at the audience score on RT, is that because of Russian hackers? Why would anyone be surprised that the biggest fans of Star Wars are the most vocal about it on the internet? That should surprise nobody. 

 

Yeah, let's look at that RT score, which strangely enough is completely out of whack with imdb where it has a 7.3 score on over 400,000 votes (compared to 200,000 for RT).

The difference between the two sites? One was claimed to be hacked by a hater. True or not it looks weird for RT to be that off compared to another site as well as the high scores the movie got from all of the exit polls.

Quote

Do you really think those in charge of Star Wars are going to put the responsibility of creating three more movies in the hands of someone whose first attempt was at best a mixed result?

Why would Disney task someone who is still incessantly trolling the Star Wars fanbase on social media months after his movie released to be the brand's ambassador for the better part of a decade?

 

Mixed result? Any studio that has a movie make over a billion dollars at the box office and over a billion MORE on DvD/Bluray isn't seeing that as a mixed result.

That's a BIG WIN. Period. End of Story. FACT.

Quote

Disney has publicly announced that Johnson is going to make a trilogy going forward because they want it to make it look like they have a plan in place (because they clearly didn't for this first trilogy). At best Johnson will be given one more opportunity to make a Star Wars movie (likely with a team of writers this time) as a reward for Last Jedi's box office and then he'll be dismissed. 

 

Complete opinion based upon no facts.

If Disney was so concerned about the splinter group of 'fans' that don't like TLJ, that be in damage control to change it already. They're NOT.

Corporations don't WAIT on these things. There are toys to be sold, merchandise to be sold...DVD's and BluRays... oh, did I mention TLJ DVD/BluRay, is the best selling of 2018? That'll make a studio think they did ok, with a property. Outselling even Black Panther, a movie that beat it at the box office.

People must really like this TLJ movie. 

Disney hasn't made any changes to their plans. And unless they say otherwise, it looks like they're going through with it.

All you have is what you HOPE will change. Thus far, there's been no factual evidence to support it.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Chuck Gower

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Quote

It's a Star Wars movie backed by Disney with access to characters/actors from the original trilogy; it's a layup. You could poop in a box, label it Star Wars, and it would sell.

 

Solo Director Ron Howard would beg to differ.

Don't mind if I play for a while do you Chuck?

1. Why?

2. How do you know?

[jsilverjanet]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 1:45 PM, Chuck Gower said:

what a jerk, how dare he call us jerks

[mattn792]

1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

I never dismissed anyone's criticism. I've said numerous times, everyone is entitled to their opinion on it.  

Average forum dissenter - “TLJ is a bad movie and here’s why I think so.”

Chucktator - ‘RAH!  Fanboy racist hater website hackers!  Dollars and Disney and Ryan Johnson and exit polls! Opinions as facts, facts as opinions, cats and dogs!’

[bentbryan]

Watched it in entirety for the 3rd time last night (saw twice in theatre and Netflix last night).  For me, in the first 5 minutes of run-time the movie jars you out of the experience. Holding for Admiral/ general Hugs, followed up by a mom joke. I don’t know about anyone else, but in my world of Star Wars people don’t wait on hold for calls and there really aren’t any mom jokes. These are from real life . Don’t bring me back to real life in a Star Wars movie. It takes away the immersion.  

Im fine with new directions and characters and such but what I didn’t like was the Mad-Lib style (just about every plot he takes you on a hard left-turn, “subverting your expectations” ?) in which RJ chooses to tell a story.  And that is going  to be a challenge for JJ on this final film who I am really going to have to give a pass to on this next movie. He doesn’t have much story-wise to work with now.  It will probably be more of the same “make it up as we go” method.  

If you liked/ loved TLJ that’s great, but not everyone who didn’t like it (and there are quite a few who don’t) are out there waging war online against the cast and directors.  

 

[Prince Namor]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Don't mind if I play for a while do you Chuck?

1. Why?

2. How do you know?

How do I know what?

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

How do I know what?

That Ron would beg to differ. 

[Prince Namor]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

That Ron would beg to differ. 

I don't. It's a perspective based upon a claim the poster made.

"You could poop in a box, label it Star Wars, and it would sell."

Well Ron Howard didn't poop in a box, he TRIED to make the best Star Wars movie he could and it didn't live up to expectations. So based upon that FACT, I don't think its quite so easy to assume success just because it has a Star Wars label on it. It certainly helps, but... it did nowhere near the massive box office that Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi movie did.

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

I don't. It's a perspective based upon a claim the poster made.

"You could poop in a box, label it Star Wars, and it would sell."

Well Ron Howard didn't poop in a box, he TRIED to make the best Star Wars movie he could and it didn't live up to expectations. So based upon that FACT, I don't think its quite so easy to assume success just because it has a Star Wars label on it. It certainly helps, but... it did nowhere near the massive box office that Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi movie did.

Yes, but it was a spin off with a different actor in a well loved lead role. Potentially risky and not really comparable in my view to the main event films . You can't constantly berate people here for stating opinion as fact and then say that Solo did badly and also say what another person would think about it as if these opinions of yours are fact. That's double standards isn't it Chuck?

[Prince Namor]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Yes, but it was a spin off with a different actor in a well loved lead role. Potentially risky and not really comparable in my view to the main event films .

4

It was not the same as a lead Star Wars movie.

However, the poster said "You could poop in a box, label it Star Wars, and it would sell."

Does that specify a lead movie? Or does that seem to specify poop? As in ANY thing could have the label and it would sell.

Solo was a 'Star Wars' movie. It had 'the label'. The studio, analysts, experts... far and away the majority of people who deal with such things agreed: It didn't live up to expectations of a Star Wars movie. Especially compared to Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi, which is the 8th highest grossing movie ever made.

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

You can't constantly berate people here for stating opinion as fact

 

I'm not berating anyone.

I can't help it if this generation gets butthurt everytime someone disagrees with them.

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

and then say that Solo did badly

 

Never said Solo 'did badly'. I said it didn't live up to expectations. Two different things.

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

and also say what another person would think about it as if these opinions of yours are fact.

 

You got confused somewhere along the way.

He made a statement. I responded using an example as to why I don't necessarily agree.

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

That's double standards isn't it Chuck?

No. A double standard would be if I said, "I think TLJ is the greatest Star Wars film ever made, because everyone else does too!"

THAT would be a double standard.