ASM 1 CGC 8.0 Restored (on the bay) Opinions sought 2 2

[Jack Linguini]

Hello everybody !!

I've been toying with the idea of getting a nice KEY book this year.
Vacillating a bit between ASM 1 and X-Men 1. I want both.

I saw this nice looking (to me) restored copy of ASM 1 in CGC restored 8.0 today.
"Restoration includes : Color touch, pieces added,tear seals, cleaned, reinforced"

It's a nice looking book for the price. It was slabbed way back in 2002, so it has the designation of
"Apparent VF 8.0 Moderate P" 
Which would probably be equivalent to A2/3 or B2/3.
One nice thing for a restored book is that it does NOT have the cover re-glossed.

The price is 9250. (+250 shipping) 
Fine 8.0 in Overstreet PriceGuide 47 lists it at 17000.00.

That works out to 55% the price of an 8.0.
Seems like a decent deal and I would be holding for a few years at least.

Any opinions or advice appreciated.

bests

JL

Here is the link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-1-CGC-8-0-Silver-Age-March-1963-Key-Grail-Comic-Classic/322990198617?

and a photo:

[comicquant]

I would much rather have a solid 5.0 than a PLOD at any grade.  I know some don't mind restored books but I just can't do it.  I would always prefer the lower grade blue label.

[Jack Linguini]

Looking for input from folks who do collect or sell restored books.

thanks

JL

[Pirate]

8 hours ago, Jack Linguini said:

Looking for input from folks who do collect or sell restored books.

thanks

JL

In other words shut up Comicquant with your logic 

[spreads]

8 hours ago, Jack Linguini said:

Looking for input from folks who do collect or sell restored books.

thanks

JL

So you're asking if this is an 'investment'?   Stick to blue-chip stocks and not comics.

 

9 hours ago, Jack Linguini said:

The price is 9250. (+250 shipping) 
Fine 8.0 in Overstreet PriceGuide 47 lists it at 17000.00.

That works out to 55% the price of an 8.0.
Seems like a decent deal and I would be holding for a few years at least.

Any opinions or advice appreciated.

bests

JL
 

You should be looking at GPA analysis, it will give you a better idea - overstreet as a reference to a graded book is just useless IMO.  I have an X-Men #1 yellow/purple label 3.0 I bought last year.  It had minor restoration, but the price was a discount to comparable GPA sales and I was more than happy to have it for my collection long-term. 

[KPR Comics]

Slightly off topic, but that Seller's shipping charges are outrageous.

 

[Grendel72]

Isn't the price 9650. With that crazy shipping it's close to 10k. It's not a bad price but neither is it a great deal. If you could haggle it down to 9k that would be worth . 

[DjMartini]

59 minutes ago, KPR Comics said:

Slightly off topic, but that Seller's shipping charges are outrageous.

 

Holy , $250.00!!!

Is that being shipped by a Stan Lee himself?!

I mean, it only says Ground shipping 

[justafan]

To answer your first question:

With that amount of restoration the book was possibly originally around a 3.5/4.0 but could have been as low as a 2.5 or as high as a 5.0 depending on how large the pieces that were added, tears that were sealed, and what the extent of the reinforcement was for.  For that reason alone I probably wouldn't pay more than a 4.0 unrestored prices which is between $6 and $7k on GPA. 

For your next question:

Now would I buy the book vs an X-men #1?  From an investment standpoint I might go with a good unrestored X-Men #1 for the same price.  I feel that ASM has already netted most of its gains for a while now while there could be potential with future X-men projects.  From a collection standpoint, I'd go with whichever you feel happiest with.  Is this something you'll want to crack out and read or just leave in the holder?

I used to be like comicquant about restored books and still am for the most part but I've begun seeing restoration in a slightly different light lately and not just because of price affordability.  To me, restoration/conservation is the best possible damage a book can have and I say that in a good way.  For restored books, because the values are muted and if the restoration aids in preservation I will actually buy a restored book to crack out and be my reader copy as opposed to a more delicate and more expensive unrestored copy.  Here's how I now rank/value restored books:

Restoration preference:

Color touch: small amount of color touch on cover (note "small" is relative and can be anything from ink applied to a single color break spine crease that doesn't penatrate the cover all the way up to the entire spine and part of the book being color touched with ink)

Value: the same as if I had a non-restored book with an equivalent amount of writing on it.

Glue/tear seals: small amount of glue or small tear seals (again "small" can have a large range and need to understand if the glue or tear seals are holding the front and back covers together)

Value: 1/2 grade higher than a non-restored book with the equivalent amount of unrestored damage: (i.e. tears, spine splits, or detached cover or pagesd)

Staples Replaced: (1 or both)

Value: 1/2 grade higher than a non-restored book with the staple(s) missing or rusty but without rust transfer.

Pieces added: depending on how many pieces and how big a piece I apply value accordingly. 

Value: 1 grade higher than a non-restored book with the same amount of pieces missing

Cover cleaned/staples cleaned: depending on whether the job was good or looks artificial now

Value: 1/2 grade higher than a non-restored book with the equivalent amount of cover/staple soiling that was cleaned

Reinforced: I've heard this from being anywhere from archival tape or material used to hold the covers or pages together to simply tape on interior covers.

Value: 1 grade higher than an unrestored book with the equivalent amount of damage/brittleness/structure degredation that would necessitate reinforcement.

Cover reglossed: books can look really good with this but sometimes it just seems too good and hard to tell with photos and I do appreciate that weathered, original patina with the hint of former glory on the cover.

Value: 1/2 grade above an unrestored book without the reglossing

Micro Trimming: 1 edge

Micro Trimming to amature trimming: 2-3 edges

Value: depending on the trim job, I would value it at the equivalent grade of an unrestored book that had the same amount of square inches of the book missing due to normal wear.

This is just my preference, everyone has their own and should value/grade/purchase accordingly.

 

[oakman29]

I'm not a seller,  but.......

When it comes to high dollar keys, I would personally deal with someone I trusted. A seller I trust, a board member who I know. Then again I'm not the kind of guy who likes to gamble with people who might pack a phone book instead the book I purchased.

[Jack Linguini]

56 minutes ago, justafan said:

To answer your first question:

With that amount of restoration the book was possibly originally around a 3.5/4.0 but could have been as low as a 2.5 or as high as a 5.0 depending on how large the pieces that were added, tears that were sealed, and what the extent of the reinforcement was for.  For that reason alone I probably wouldn't pay more than a 4.0 unrestored prices which is between $6 and $7k on GPA. 

For your next question:

Now would I buy the book vs an X-men #1?  From an investment standpoint I might go with a good unrestored X-Men #1 for the same price.  I feel that ASM has already netted most of its gains for a while now while there could be potential with future X-men projects.  From a collection standpoint, I'd go with whichever you feel happiest with.  Is this something you'll want to crack out and read or just leave in the holder?

I used to be like comicquant about restored books and still am for the most part but I've begun seeing restoration in a slightly different light lately and not just because of price affordability.  To me, restoration/conservation is the best possible damage a book can have and I say that in a good way.  For restored books, because the values are muted and if the restoration aids in preservation I will actually buy a restored book to crack out and be my reader copy as opposed to a more delicate and more expensive unrestored copy.  Here's how I now rank/value restored books:

Restoration preference:

Color touch: small amount of color touch on cover (note "small" is relative and can be anything from ink applied to a single color break spine crease that doesn't penatrate the cover all the way up to the entire spine and part of the book being color touched with ink)

Value: the same as if I had a non-restored book with an equivalent amount of writing on it.

Glue/tear seals: small amount of glue or small tear seals (again "small" can have a large range and need to understand if the glue or tear seals are holding the front and back covers together)

Value: 1/2 grade higher than a non-restored book with the equivalent amount of unrestored damage: (i.e. tears, spine splits, or detached cover or pagesd)

Staples Replaced: (1 or both)

Value: 1/2 grade higher than a non-restored book with the staple(s) missing or rusty but without rust transfer.

Pieces added: depending on how many pieces and how big a piece I apply value accordingly. 

Value: 1 grade higher than a non-restored book with the same amount of pieces missing

Cover cleaned/staples cleaned: depending on whether the job was good or looks artificial now

Value: 1/2 grade higher than a non-restored book with the equivalent amount of cover/staple soiling that was cleaned

Reinforced: I've heard this from being anywhere from archival tape or material used to hold the covers or pages together to simply tape on interior covers.

Value: 1 grade higher than an unrestored book with the equivalent amount of damage/brittleness/structure degredation that would necessitate reinforcement.

Cover reglossed: books can look really good with this but sometimes it just seems too good and hard to tell with photos and I do appreciate that weathered, original patina with the hint of former glory on the cover.

Value: 1/2 grade above an unrestored book without the reglossing

Micro Trimming: 1 edge

Micro Trimming to amature trimming: 2-3 edges

Value: depending on the trim job, I would value it at the equivalent grade of an unrestored book that had the same amount of square inches of the book missing due to normal wear.

This is just my preference, everyone has their own and should value/grade/purchase accordingly.

 

Thank you ! Thank you ! Thank you !

I appreciate all the input. And the value analysis. Very good info from everybody.

Regards this specific book there are definitely a few red flags. The 250 shipping is weird obviously. The book was slabbed back in 2002. The seller has a few restored books. But they don't have any details on the restoration of this one. It seems like in a best case scenario if you were buying a restored book if you could know who restored it you would have an idea of the level of quality and if it was removable.

And as another poster mentioned buying a book like this is especially sketchy on eBay. Most of my big purchases have been made private party on the boards or from mycomicshop.com or Dale Roberts.

This is exactly the type of advice and input I was hoping for. I'm open minded to the idea of restored books myself. As long as it's done properly.

I haven't set up an account with GPA or go collect.com yet. So I haven't had those to do my research against.

@justafan thanks for the good analysis. Gives me much more knowledge to do my research and make any decisions.

I also appreciate the input on ASM 1 VS X-men 1. I tend to think there is a little more leg room with X-Men to increase in value over the next few years. Also initially I was thinking of asm1 specifically as a long term investment.

But asm1 is one of those books that you can pretty much count on being valuable as long as people are collecting comics. I'd say that's probably true of X-Men too. And since as a kid I was always an X-Men guy more than anything it just makes the most sense.

I'm still a newbie on the board. Mostly just been buying s*** tons of Bronze Age/horror books the last 6 months. But I got to say

"I love you guys." 

There is so much incredible information on this site. And just about any question I've ever had I can get a incredible answer back within 24 hours. CGC BOARDIES RULE !!!

Thanks all

JL

[Jack Linguini]

1 hour ago, Grendel72 said:

Isn't the price 9650. With that crazy shipping it's close to 10k. It's not a bad price but neither is it a great deal. If you could haggle it down to 9k that would be worth . 

Well the price was 9250 yesterday. Funny I've seen it where I see a book I like on eBay I asked a question about it and then the next day they raise the price and then they raise the price again the next day.

A fairly well known dealer whose last name is also a type of affordable wine had an unrestored X-Men 7.0 up for 10.5K.

I was interested and I wanted more details or better photos and didn't get really a decent response. Said affordable wine named dealer proceeded to raise the price to 11 then 12.5.

I probably would have bought it at 10.5 if the dealer had provided better photos.

Sigh

[spreads]

You're willing to spend 10k on a book but don't want to take a few dollars and a few minutes on GPA? 

I work in compliance for a major investment firm, this ranks pretty high on the emotionally-charged 'investment' choices.

[ADAMANTIUM]

17 minutes ago, Jack Linguini said:

Well the price was 9250 yesterday. Funny I've seen it where I see a book I like on eBay I asked a question about it and then the next day they raise the price and then they raise the price again the next day.

A fairly well known dealer whose last name is also a type of affordable wine had an unrestored X-Men 7.0 up for 10.5K.

I was interested and I wanted more details or better photos and didn't get really a decent response. Said affordable wine named dealer proceeded to raise the price to 11 then 12.5.

I probably would have bought it at 10.5 if the dealer had provided better photos.

Sigh

The only thing that I can think, is if you posted a link. I've clicked on ebay links and seen 100 views per hour on the listing  Sorry to hear about the X-men 

 

[jason4]

That 8.0 is Beautiful and worth it IMO. The 250 shipping is probably because of the high price to insure the book. 

[mattn792]

35 minutes ago, jason4 said:

That 8.0 is Beautiful and worth it IMO. The 250 shipping is probably because of the high price to insure the book. 

Registered Mail w/restricted delivery on a $10,000 value only costs $35.60 according to usps.com.  A $250 shipping charge is complete price gouging on the seller's part.  For that reason alone I wouldn't buy this book.

[mackenzie999]

If I had ten grand to blow on Spidey I'd buy an AF15. Investment-wise I'd pick XM1 over ASM1.

[Jack Linguini]

58 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

Registered Mail w/restricted delivery on a $10,000 value only costs $35.60 according to usps.com.  A $250 shipping charge is complete price gouging on the seller's part.  For that reason alone I wouldn't buy this book.

I'll follow up with the seller and see what the reason for the 250 shipping and handling is.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt that it was including insurance or something. It seems insane to me but I figured I'd figure that out if I decided I wanted the book then decide if was willing to pay that shipping cost.

JL

[LordRahl]

45 minutes ago, Jack Linguini said:

I'll follow up with the seller and see what the reason for the 250 shipping and handling is.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt that it was including insurance or something. It seems insane to me but I figured I'd figure that out if I decided I wanted the book then decide if was willing to pay that shipping cost.

JL

Badly overpriced. Last MP 8.0 that sold went for $3466 in Feb of 2016 and a B4 8.0 just sold last Sep for $5200. Wait and you'll find one cheaper... although I will say this is a nice looking 8.0 but I don't think it's several thousand dollars worth of nice.

[spreads]

42 minutes ago, LordRahl said:

Badly overpriced. Last MP 8.0 that sold went for $3466 in Feb of 2016 and a B4 8.0 just sold last Sep for $5200. Wait and you'll find one cheaper... although I will say this is a nice looking 8.0 but I don't think it's several thousand dollars worth of nice.

So, you're saying not-paying 80-100% above FMV on something you're looking to hold for 2-3 years is a good idea?