Dealers / Rinse and Repeat model 7 7

[Not A Clone]

I think he was trying to understand what keeps a book from infinitely going higher in price the way some books seem to be doing right now. I was updating my ASM price sheet last night. I last updated #101 in June. So many of the grades jumped 2x-3x on last sale over the 90 avg price of June. So what happens that makes the price stop moving? Is it everyone that has interest in this book has one now & moves on to the next book? Movie bombs, Joe Speculator tries to sell & there is no interest in it now so he settles for a lower price than he paid? 

[Bomber-Bob]

5 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

The comic book collector buys as much the dealer , as the book. There is an inherent relationship that the best dealers cultivate. 

Metro, bob storms, greg Reece, Richie bedrock, harley, Ritter, etc etc all buy and sell the same books at about the same prices. What is different about them vs eBay and lessor successful sellers is that they are selling not only the book, but themselves. They are market supports, have their fingers on the pulse of their customer demands, and provide a quality book at a quality price with quality service. Wash, rinse, repeat is a by product of the market. Cream rises and dust settles!

I totally agree with this statement. As a collector I also try and get the sense for which dealers are actually trying to help me build my collection as opposed to making a quick profit. Your quick hitter list of dealers is a good representation with one exception. I find Metro to be cold and strictly about business. I remember years ago I bought a half dozen GA books of a certain title from them. The books were raw but had Metro assigned grades in the 8.5 to 9.2 area. Years later, I brought the books to them at a convention, looking to sell. Vinnie, not knowing I bought the books from him, appraised the books to be all in the Fine range , and offered like 60% of Overstreet Fine. I never forgot that incident. I think Vinnie is very good at what he does but he is a salesman, not a friend, not an advisor. Anyway, good post, G.A.tor .

[ygogolak]

4 hours ago, october said:

Making 20x or 30x on something you paid a dollar for is nice, but I'd still rather buy a book for $900 and sell for $1000. 

I don't fill my wallet with percentage points. $100>$30.

Horrible ROI. If you can buy it from one place and turn around and immediately sell it, then it's fine.

But you have to factor in how long you are going to have your cash tied up in it and what method are you selling? In person with cash? If it's at a show there is overhead to factor. Any other way you're not getting $100 profit.

Edited August 13, 2018 by ygogolak

[1Cool]

2 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Horrible ROI. If you can buy it from one place and turn around and immediately sell it, then it's fine.

But you have to factor in how long you are going to have your cash tied up in it and what method are you selling? In person with cash? If it's at a show there is overhead to factor. Any other way you're not getting $100 profit.

i think a bunch of dealers/collectors come to see October directly so he doesn't have to contend with that pesky 10% E-Bay fees.

Personally I'd much rather roll the dice on a short box of $5 books that sell for $20 a piece with a little time and patience then take the risk on one $900 book.  I could miss a married cover or some other big defect which would kill that sale price.  Big books are great easy money when they go well but the slow grind has less risk and usually more upside to me.

[ygogolak]

3 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

i think a bunch of dealers/collectors come to see October directly so he doesn't have to contend with that pesky 10% E-Bay fees.

Personally I'd much rather roll the dice on a short box of $5 books that sell for $20 a piece with a little time and patience then take the risk on one $900 book.  I could miss a married cover or some other big defect which would kill that sale price.  Big books are great easy money when they go well but the slow grind has less risk and usually more upside to me.

I think if you and me were given $900 we could spend it better than a $100 profit.

[1Cool]

21 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

I think if you and me were given $900 we could spend it better than a $100 profit.

I think October was using examples already used in the discussion - he has been killing it selling books for as long as I can remember.

 

[october]

58 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

I think if you and me were given $900 we could spend it better than a $100 profit.

You've completely missed my point, but that's okay.

[RCheli]

5 hours ago, october said:

Making 20x or 30x on something you paid a dollar for is nice, but I'd still rather buy a book for $900 and sell for $1000. 

I don't fill my wallet with percentage points. $100>$30.

That's true, but you tend to sell a lot more of those books than you do the big ones. Look at your standard one-day comic show -- not these 3/4-day behemoths. In those one-day shows, you may sell only one big book ($250+), a couple between $100 and $250, and a handful between $30 and $100. I can sell a couple of long boxes of $1, $3, and $5 comics. Plus, I'm not carrying around a lot of money in wall books. 

[october]

19 minutes ago, RCheli said:

That's true, but you tend to sell a lot more of those books than you do the big ones. Look at your standard one-day comic show -- not these 3/4-day behemoths. In those one-day shows, you may sell only one big book ($250+), a couple between $100 and $250, and a handful between $30 and $100. I can sell a couple of long boxes of $1, $3, and $5 comics. Plus, I'm not carrying around a lot of money in wall books. 

You're absolutely right, but there's two ways to look at that. One, you can make your inventory match the demands of the one-day show customer. Two, you can look for customers elsewhere because the one-day shows don't draw in the customers you need.

 

 

[RCheli]

1 minute ago, october said:

You're absolutely right, but there's two ways to look at that. One, you can make your inventory match the demands of the one-day show customer. Two, you can look for customers elsewhere because the one-day shows don't draw in the customers you need.

Well, I know very few dealers who only sets up at shows. They have stores, they sell online, etc. But even then, by expanding your client base to anyone with an internet connection, you're still not guaranteed to sell a lot of what you have, even if it's priced well.

And it's not always easy to match up, because you don't know who is going to be walking through the door at any one time. I used to have a long-box and a half of romance books that sat unsold for months and months until the one day when two guys walked in and one bought about 30 comics and the other bought the rest. (It was a good show.) So dealers tend to bring some of that stuff time after time, because eventually there will be those customers.

Same goes for some books that are good enough to put up on your wall. You paid a good price for the book, and you know it's going to sell. It just may take a while -- regardless if it's at a con or online.

[ygogolak]

22 hours ago, RCheli said:

Well, I am by no means a big-time dealer, but I'll tell you this. The money is not in the big books, at least as far as profit margin is concerned. For a book you have at $1000 on your wall, you may have paid $800 and will take $900. So while $100 is great and all, you make 12% on that book. (There are exceptions, of course.)

The stuff in the boxes, however, is your cash cow. Those books that cost anywhere from $1 to $30 (or whatever) may have cost you a fraction of that. So those $1 and $3 books are all profit. And if you leave a show selling a long-box or two per table of that stuff, you're doing pretty well.

And that $1000 book you sold for $900? Well, the next dealer will probably have $1050 on it and happily sell it for $975 (or see that his price point is too high and end up selling it for $900 or $850). 

20 hours ago, october said:

Making 20x or 30x on something you paid a dollar for is nice, but I'd still rather buy a book for $900 and sell for $1000. 

I don't fill my wallet with percentage points. $100>$30.

 

15 hours ago, october said:

You've completely missed my point, but that's okay.

I can only respond to what is written. OP did not say they would make $30 total. They said $1-$30 per book.

[Mayor006]

I don't know if this example really fits the question, but reading through the thread made me think of something I witnessed and discussed with a couple of sellers this weekend at a tiny show.  One guy has an ungraded Hulk 181 that is in decent shape, nothing high grade, but nice nonetheless.  By the time I get to his booth at 10:05 (show opened at 10 am) he's already had at least three offers and has two people that want to work something out with him.  Now after talking to the original seller later in the day he tells me all of the offers came from dealers in the room and that he sold the book at guide price based on what they determined the grade to be.  The buyer/dealer plans on pressing and slabbing and then selling for nearly double guide (based on what the seller said).  If all this buying and selling between dealers is happening before the show even opens and the dealers are the ones continuously driving up the pricing, how much longer can this keep up? Nothing new I guess, but still just makes you wonder.

 

[SteppinRazor]

1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

 

I can only respond to what is written. OP did not say they would make $30 total. They said $1-$30 per book.

Whether that's better depends on the effort per dollar cost.  if you sell online, you have to scan, price, and list 3 books to come close to equivalent profit.  If you sell physically, you have to transport 3x as much weight and volume.  The rub is the matter of diminishing returns, the longer your money is trapped in that $900 book and the more instances you go back home with it.

[1Cool]

33 minutes ago, Mayor006 said:

I don't know if this example really fits the question, but reading through the thread made me think of something I witnessed and discussed with a couple of sellers this weekend at a tiny show.  One guy has an ungraded Hulk 181 that is in decent shape, nothing high grade, but nice nonetheless.  By the time I get to his booth at 10:05 (show opened at 10 am) he's already had at least three offers and has two people that want to work something out with him.  Now after talking to the original seller later in the day he tells me all of the offers came from dealers in the room and that he sold the book at guide price based on what they determined the grade to be.  The buyer/dealer plans on pressing and slabbing and then selling for nearly double guide (based on what the seller said).  If all this buying and selling between dealers is happening before the show even opens and the dealers are the ones continuously driving up the pricing, how much longer can this keep up? Nothing new I guess, but still just makes you wonder.

 

That is the great thing about the current market there are thousands of IH 181s floating around and that is just one key.  You maximize the potential of a specific book and there are always a handful of new books popping up.  And if you are the lucky person who maximizes a book and sell it for a nice profit you never know what that buyer will do with it.  Will he fall on hard times and sell you back the book with a few others at a loss so you can double dip on that one book.  The machine will keep going as long as the keys keep being in demand.  I'm curious how low non-keys can keep falling.  Random nice non-key mid grade Silver-Age books that once were $20 dropped to the $10 bins and now seem to be tough sales for $7 - $8.  Will we see these books fall into the $5 bins?

[joeypost]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:58 PM, Mercury Man said:

The biggest concern and health of comic values will be the 'Next' Generation.   Model Trains and Stamp Collectors have gone the way of the Do-Do.  Young people don't care about rare Lionel Model trains or elusive mint Stamps.  The average age of this demographic of collectors keeps inching up and up. That is not good for their hobby.  

It will be interesting to see what happens with print comics and our hobby.  I think some of the main keys will always be solid.  But look at what happens to a lot of the first appearance villains when the movies come out.  The books sell well, and quite a bit, then they come to earth.  Avengers #55 comes to mind.  Now that Thanos has had his moment, interested to see what happens with his first appearance prices.   Don't get me started on the variant books.  Look out beloooooow......

Not too many movies based on stamps and trains, unless you're an Agatha Christie fan. These comic book characters are now a part of Americana (and spreading outward). 

Edited August 14, 2018 by joeypost

[Bomber-Bob]

51 minutes ago, Mayor006 said:

I don't know if this example really fits the question, but reading through the thread made me think of something I witnessed and discussed with a couple of sellers this weekend at a tiny show.  One guy has an ungraded Hulk 181 that is in decent shape, nothing high grade, but nice nonetheless.  By the time I get to his booth at 10:05 (show opened at 10 am) he's already had at least three offers and has two people that want to work something out with him.  Now after talking to the original seller later in the day he tells me all of the offers came from dealers in the room and that he sold the book at guide price based on what they determined the grade to be.  The buyer/dealer plans on pressing and slabbing and then selling for nearly double guide (based on what the seller said).  If all this buying and selling between dealers is happening before the show even opens and the dealers are the ones continuously driving up the pricing, how much longer can this keep up? Nothing new I guess, but still just makes you wonder.

 

All the buying and selling of most of the 'good stuff' is done long before the show opens during setup time. This has always happened and will continue to happen. I suspect some dealers attend cons primarily to acquire inventory. You also have 'dealers' that are not even setup but pick the other dealers during setup. I have noticed it's getting even more cutthroat amongst the dealers. Some expect courtesy 'first shots' and react if they don't get it. By the time the show opens, the show is over. LOL.

[Wall-Crawler]

21 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

The initial Thanos storyline hasn’t finished yet. We’re in a cliffhanger situation, only effectively halfway through it. Plus, the Mad Titan’s a much better character.

But, I digress from the thread’s topic, which is about money, not content.

Thanos could be the "Darth Vader" of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, of all the villains to date, especially with how important he is in print, I can see Thanos holding up long term but I know nothing.

[shortboxed]

4 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

All the buying and selling of most of the 'good stuff' is done long before the show opens during setup time. This has always happened and will continue to happen. I suspect some dealers attend cons primarily to acquire inventory. You also have 'dealers' that are not even setup but pick the other dealers during setup. I have noticed it's getting even more cutthroat amongst the dealers. Some expect courtesy 'first shots' and react if they don't get it. By the time the show opens, the show is over. LOL.

As a collector first, and occasional dealer second, I hate this practice. At nearly every show, all the "good stuff" is already picked clean by the time I walk through the doors when they open. And when I have set up at shows, all my good stuff is picked clean while I'm still setting up, then I see the book(s) on the dealer's wall for double my asking price, where it sits unsold, of course. 

As a result, now whenever I set up at shows, I DO NOT let any dealers look through my books, ask about wall books or even entertain offers. I keep the lids on the boxes and only remove them once the doors are open and attendees are let in. This may seem counter-intuitive because I'd be missing out on potential sales to other dealers, but I take a lot of pride in sourcing these books and making them available to collectors at fair prices.

Edited August 14, 2018 by shortboxed

[blazingbob]

1 hour ago, shortboxed said:

As a collector first, and occasional dealer second, I hate this practice. At nearly every show, all the "good stuff" is already picked clean by the time I walk through the doors when they open. And when I have set up at shows, all my good stuff is picked clean while I'm still setting up, then I see the book(s) on the dealer's wall for double my asking price, where it sits unsold, of course. 

As a result, now whenever I set up at shows, I DO NOT let any dealers look through my books, ask about wall books or even entertain offers. I keep the lids on the boxes and only remove them once the doors are open and attendees are let in. This may seem counter-intuitive because I'd be missing out on potential sales to other dealers, but I take a lot of pride in sourcing these books and making them available to collectors are fair prices.

Very noble but if somebody is matching my asking price I don't care if it is a dealer or a collector.  The more sales I make before the show starts the less stressful the show is wondering if that mythical collector is coming to buy that book I saved for "him/her"

[1Cool]

1 hour ago, shortboxed said:

As a collector first, and occasional dealer second, I hate this practice. At nearly every show, all the "good stuff" is already picked clean by the time I walk through the doors when they open. And when I have set up at shows, all my good stuff is picked clean while I'm still setting up, then I see the book(s) on the dealer's wall for double my asking price, where it sits unsold, of course. 

As a result, now whenever I set up at shows, I DO NOT let any dealers look through my books, ask about wall books or even entertain offers. I keep the lids on the boxes and only remove them once the doors are open and attendees are let in. This may seem counter-intuitive because I'd be missing out on potential sales to other dealers, but I take a lot of pride in sourcing these books and making them available to collectors are fair prices.

And I assume you have a huge rush of dealers (or staff of dealers) who hit your booth right at the opening and clear out all the good deals before the "collectors" have a chance to find your booth and look over your books.  It does equalize things a bit but all it does is cause a feeding frenzy at your booth with most deals being gobbled up by other dealers.  Dealers have big pockets and as long as you get your asking prices then I don't see why you make it difficult for people to spend money at your booth.