Heritage Fall Signature Auction 5 5

[Zolnerowich]

 

53 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

I don’t think the family wants their name used. None of the books they’ve been selling through HA have been identified as such in the listings. 

 

13 minutes ago, lpsunburst said:

I dont think we will know for sure they are his until the Timely's start showing up.

 

5 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Maybe they are from his store stock, not his personal collection?  Verzyl has literally sold tens if not hundreds of thousands of comic books that passed through his store stock.  Labeling books that passed through a dealer's store as being from the "collection of dealer" would be more than a little ridiculous.

 

 

All good points.

[Heronext]

I think these are specific and sad circumstances not conducive to discussion of whether someone will make money or not.

[Sqeggs]

16 minutes ago, Zolnerowich said:

 

 

 

All good points.

Three good points in one thread?  We’re way over quota!

[adamstrange]

2 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Three good points in one thread?  We’re way over quota!

For the year!

[Sqeggs]

12 minutes ago, adamstrange said:

2 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Three good points in one thread?  We’re way over quota!

For the year!

It's a relief not to have to say anything intelligent these last two months! 

[batman_fan]

I have a slightly different theory, these books were stored in Area 51 where scientist infused them with alien DNA.  Whoever wins them will be infected if they crack open the case.

[adamstrange]

3 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

It's a relief not to have to say anything intelligent these last two months! 

Harder for some than others.

[lou_fine]

On 10/28/2018 at 4:55 AM, telerites said:

On 10/28/2018 at 3:04 AM, Gotham Kid said:

flippers and speculators are destroying this hobby

I don't know, Peter.  It does bring a lot of books to market whether flipped or not.  I don't buy and flip myself but I don't have a problem with it.  Folks sometimes do better but sometimes do worse on flipping even in a short amount of time.  Kind of fun to watch for me.

Well, if I was flipping, it would not be the best idea to go right back to the same venue to try to resell your book.  

Unless it's been upgraded through a resubmit, it would be a much better idea to try a different venue in hopes of getting different eyeballs on the book.  

For example, although this copy of Wonderworld 7 sold for a healthy multiple of over 3.5X condition guide at $16,730 in Heritage's 2017 summer auction:

it was able to resell for over $22,500 about 7 short months later in this ComicConnect Event Auction just this past March.  

I would assume a different venue possibly meant a different clientele with a different set of eyeballs on the same book.  

[lou_fine]

13 hours ago, tth2 said:

On 10/29/2018 at 3:20 PM, buttock said:

On 10/28/2018 at 11:56 PM, tth2 said:

Then Heritage should take those sales out of the sales archives, and GPA should similarly remove those sales, because those were not real sales--they never completed.  Does your new listing show the previous recent sale?  

All of the sales I'm referring to show up in the sales archives.  When I open up the current listing, down in the body of the listing it shows the listing(s) for the same book's previous sales on Heritage, including the most recent sales that I've been citing.  So unless told otherwise, I have to assume that those were completed sales.

The last time I saw so many books that had sold very recently at sky high prices was when Gary Keller liquidated his many winnings.  So I was wondering if we had another Gary Keller-type situation here.   

John Verzyl was a big buyer of Church books from HA.  It's not unlikely that these are from his inventory. 

Yeah, got a few PMs after my posts, suggesting the books were sales by his estate.  

I think his estate is going to take a few hits.  There are a lot of books that sold within the past year that were purchased at nosebleed prices.  I only posted about a few, because I ran out of energy.

Not sure if the timeline would work out for some of these books to be from John's Heritage buys. 

After all, the ones that were won from 5 months ago all took place in late May which seems rather unlikely to be from Verly's bidding since he passed away around the first week of March.  I don't believe the heritage lots are normally opened for bidding so early prior to an auction and I don't believe Heritage would be placing absentee bids on John's prior instructions knowing that he had already passed away.   

[tth2]

15 hours ago, Zolnerowich said:

Curious. If so, I wonder why CGC didn't label them as "From the collection of John Verzyl".

Why go through the hassle of reslabbing books that he only owned for a few months?  

[Sqeggs]

4 hours ago, tth2 said:

20 hours ago, Zolnerowich said:

Curious. If so, I wonder why CGC didn't label them as "From the collection of John Verzyl".

Why go through the hassle of reslabbing books that he only owned for a few months?  

I think he may have meant why didn't Heritage give them that label in the catalog copy, as they've done with books from other collections that haven't merited a CGC label note.  The answer to that one (the question he should have asked!) is, I think, that the family hasn't authorized Heritage to use their name with these sales. 

@Zolnerowich's posts often require footnotes to be understood. 

[Sqeggs]

10 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, if I was flipping, it would not be the best idea to go right back to the same venue to try to resell your book.  

Unless it's been upgraded through a resubmit, it would be a much better idea to try a different venue in hopes of getting different eyeballs on the book.  

For example, although this copy of Wonderworld 7 sold for a healthy multiple of over 3.5X condition guide at $16,730 in Heritage's 2017 summer auction:

it was able to resell for over $22,500 about 7 short months later in this ComicConnect Event Auction just this past March.  

I would assume a different venue possibly meant a different clientele with a different set of eyeballs on the same book.  

I wish you'd PM me ahead of time which books I can do this kind of flip on. 

[batman_fan]

10 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, if I was flipping, it would not be the best idea to go right back to the same venue to try to resell your book.  

Unless it's been upgraded through a resubmit, it would be a much better idea to try a different venue in hopes of getting different eyeballs on the book.  

For example, although this copy of Wonderworld 7 sold for a healthy multiple of over 3.5X condition guide at $16,730 in Heritage's 2017 summer auction:

it was able to resell for over $22,500 about 7 short months later in this ComicConnect Event Auction just this past March.  

I would assume a different venue possibly meant a different clientele with a different set of eyeballs on the same book.  

I watched that one closely hoping the consigner would take a bath on it and I would be the new owner. Yet another in a long list of poor predictions by me. 

[1koko]

On 10/28/2018 at 7:44 PM, szavisca said:

To clarify... I meant if I was consigning it, and I knew the cf was not detached, I’d want it fixed... as in blue label that doesn’t say “cf detached.”

In other words I don’t trust the motives of the seller on this one.

Is this book recently slabbed?

Seller may not have seen the slab.

I have, in the past, consigned books to Heritage and asked them to CGC them for me as it reduces shipping costs (weight of package to Heritage of unslabbed books from UK rather than slabbed books crossing the Atlantic back and forth).

 

[Zolnerowich]

4 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

I think he may have meant why didn't Heritage give them that label in the catalog copy, as they've done with books from other collections that haven't merited a CGC label note.  The answer to that one (the question he should have asked!) is, I think, that the family hasn't authorized Heritage to use their name with these sales. 

@Zolnerowich's posts often require footnotes to be understood. 

It is true that some of my posts 

[Gotham Kid]

16 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, if I was flipping, it would not be the best idea to go right back to the same venue to try to resell your book.  

especially when you can see past sales results on same page as listing

Edited October 31, 2018 by Gotham Kid

[sacentaur]

On 10/27/2018 at 10:27 PM, tth2 said:

The Church CGC 9.6 Adventure #43 in this auction was sold on Heritage just 5 months ago! 

One of the reasons I don’t participate in auctions is the lingering specter of shill bidding. Also, could there be non-disclosed reserves?

The Church CGC 9.6 Adventure 43 is not being auctioned by Verzyl’s estate, earlier this year it was listed for sale on a major dealer’s website (allegedly “sold” for $22,500) before then being auctioned and allegedly selling for under 17k.

If Heritage does delete a non-paying account that was indeed a shill, big deal because the same entity could simply return under another shill. Non-paying bidders negatively impact the hobby just as much as a shill, which is exacerbated if/when they are one in the same. Such   non-sales should be removed from any data source.

And if a hidden reserve isn’t met, and the book is re-auctioned, then likewise any non-sale should be removed.

Clearly something is amiss. 

For the record, though I love early Adventures I do own the Larson CGC 9.6 of this particular book so I have no interest in bidding on or acquiring the Church copy, and the above comments are my opinions only.

[pemart1966]

On 10/28/2018 at 6:04 AM, Gotham Kid said:

flippers and speculators are destroying this hobby

It ain't been a hobby for a loooong time now.  It's big business now.

[lou_fine]

Well, looks like this copy of Action 13 sold for $156,000:

Not a bad price, but I thought it might have gone for a bit more than that.  Especially considering that the Atlantic City 9.2 graded copy managed to fetch $185,000 seven years ago way back in 2011.

[batman_fan]

2 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Well, looks like this copy of Action 13 sold for $156,000:

Not a bad price, but I thought it might have gone for a bit more than that.  Especially considering that the Atlantic City 9.2 graded copy managed to fetch $185,000 seven years ago way back in 2011.

I am probably in the minority but I thought it looked like a soft 9.0 from the scans. Maybe it looks better in person.