Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

What’s close-minded thinking is thinking that audiences won’t embrace a future Iron Man, Captain America, or Black Panther unless it’s Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, or T’Challa behind the mask. That right there is lazy thinking and is a losing mentality that says the only way forMarvel to succeed is to wash rinse and repeat because only Tony Stark and Steve Rogers matter and you can’t win without them. Wrong.

Again - you're acting like audiences haven't seen 6 actors portray James Bond, 3 actors portray Superman, 3 actors portray Peter Parker, 3 actors portray Bruce Banner, 2 actors play Rhodey (within your precious MCU) and 5 actors play Bruce Wayne (with a 6th in the wings).

Or like audiences were somehow confused to see Ryan Reynolds play Deadpool after already playing Green Lantern and Hannibal King.

Or seeing Chris Evans go from playing Johnny Storm to playing Steve Rogers.

Audiences get it. Actors are expendable - yes -- even Robert Downey, Jr.

It's the characters who matter. Period.

[NewWorldOrder]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Kate Bishop is trash? Lol. Okay. 

Yes complete D-Level garbage.

Most people would agree she is not on the same level as Hawkeye, and I think Hawkeye is C Level at best.

[NewWorldOrder]

11 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Again - you're acting like audiences haven't seen 6 actors portray James Bond, 3 actors portray Superman, 3 actors portray Peter Parker, 3 actors portray Bruce Banner, 2 actors play Rhodey (within your precious MCU) and 5 actors play Bruce Wayne (with a 6th in the wings).

Or like audiences were somehow confused to see Ryan Reynolds play Deadpool after already playing Green Lantern and Hannibal King.

Or seeing Chris Evans go from playing Johnny Storm to playing Steve Rogers.

Audiences get it. Actors are expendable - yes -- even Robert Downey, Jr.

It's the characters who matter. Period.

Exactly.

Usually the first actor that makes that character popular is usually considered the best and the measuring stick.

As you said just because Sean Connery is usually deemed the best Bond, they keep making Bond movies with new Bond re-casts.  Same goes for RDJ, he will always be the measuring stick, but at some point there will be another Iron Man and TOS #39 will skyrocket again! 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[@therealsilvermane]

18 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Actors are expendable - yes -- even Robert Downey, Jr.

It's the characters who matter. Period.

For the business end of it, yes. That's right. That Black Panther costume is what sells merchandise and gets people excited. Where I guess I'm differing with people is many here think you can't have that costume character without T'Challa. I say you can totally have a movie that features a Wakandan queen or king in a black cat vibranium suit and sell merchandise that features that character and it doesn't have to be T'Challa. The action and the intrigue and the human drama of the Black Panther can still be there, but it can be a new member of the Royal family wearing the suit.

You're saying in the long run, you can't have Iron Man or Black Panther without Tony Stark or T'Challa so Marvel must eventually recast Stark and T'Challa.

I'm saying the costumed character Iron Man or Black Panther is not expendable, but the character wearing the Iron Man or Black Panther suit is expendable.

It seems to me Marvel Studios is doing the latter because the MCU seems to be moving on from both Tony Stark and T'Challa. I know there's a petition to recast T'Challa, but Kevin Feige has stated that they will not recast him.

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[drotto]

1 minute ago, NewWorldOrder said:

Exactly.

Usually the first actor that makes that character popular is usually considered the best and the measuring stick.

As you said just because Sean Connery is usually deemed the best Bond, they keep making Bond movies with new Bond re-casts.  Same goes for RDJ, he will always be the measuring stick, but at some point there will be another Iron Man and TOS #39 will skyrocket again! 

 

I also think we are seeing the end of Star Power driven entertainment.  It no longer seems like people are driven to certain movies or entertainment based on who is in it.  Just look at the ratings of award shows like the Oscars which had a rating collapse to see that people no longer care about stars like they used to. Now, I will admit COVID may have driven some of this, but they have been trending downward for years, and have now plummeted. 

[drotto]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

You're saying in the long run, you can't have Iron Man or Black Panther without Tony Stark or T'Challa so Marvel must eventually recast Stark and T'Challa.

 

 

YES!!!!! What you are saying is only the title is important.  What we are saying is that both the title and the original character behind the title are important. 

[NewWorldOrder]

3 minutes ago, drotto said:

I also think we are seeing the end of Star Power driven entertainment.  It no longer seems like people are driven to certain movies or entertainment based on who is in it.  Just look at the ratings of award shows like the Oscars which had a rating collapse to see that people no longer care about stars like they used to. Now, I will admit COVID may have driven some of this, but they have been trending downward for years, and have now plummeted. 

I know what you are saying, but its also we dont have Mega Stars like we used to have.  Kids now want to be micro famous (Youtube or Instagram etc) vs Macro Famous (Michael Jordon, Arnold, Brad Pitt etc).  Taylor Swift is really one of few new people to be Macro famous.

Also I think for the Oscars its a mix of covid, but also the forced politics that people are tired of hearing preached them IMO.

Edited May 1, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[Gatsby77]

You're also forgetting a very real business reason for Marvel to re-cast.

Specifically so they, not the individual actors, hold the power.

RDJ didn't quit because he was tired of playing Iron Man - it was a combination of that AND his costing too much money.

There's already rumors of his (limited) return in some form following the abject bomb that was Dr. Doolittle.

Think about it - why replace RDJ's Iron Man with War Machine's Don Cheadle? They're the same age (56 years old). Cheadle's not going to want to play Rhodey for another decade either.

Feige and Marvel ensured the actors know they're expendable - and not only avoided making the same "gross points" mistake with RDJ with any other actor - but also didn't hesitate to replace the actors playing Rhodey or Banner -- even once the MCU had officially kicked off.

[drotto]

6 minutes ago, NewWorldOrder said:

I know what you are saying, but its also we dont have Mega Stars like we used to have.  Kids now want to be micro famous (Youtube or Instagram etc) vs Macro Famous (Michael Jordon, Arnold, Brad Pitt etc).  Taylor Swift is really one of few new people to be Macro famous.

Also I think for the Oscars its a mix of covid, but also the forced politics that people are tired of hearing preached them IMO.

You are right there are many facets to it.  The end result is the Mega Star is dead.  If the Mega Star is dead it also means the only ____________  can play ____________ mentality is gone with it.

Edited May 1, 2021 by drotto

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

What’s close-minded thinking is thinking that audiences won’t embrace a future Iron Man, Captain America, or Black Panther unless it’s Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, or T’Challa behind the mask. That right there is lazy thinking and is a losing mentality that says the only way forMarvel to succeed is to wash rinse and repeat because only Tony Stark and Steve Rogers matter and you can’t win without them. Wrong.

Who is this 'forMarvel' you speak of?

It actually isn't. Like the Marvel comic books have brought Tony Stark and Steve Rogers to many generations the Cinematic World can do the same. Why rob future audiences of that experience? To make current fanatical viewers pleased that the MCU is an ever-continuous world with no redos for others to appreciate?

Come on. You have to be kidding now.

[drotto]

23 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Who is this 'forMarvel' you speak of?

It actually isn't. Like the Marvel comic books have brought Tony Stark and Steve Rogers to many generations the Cinematic World can do the same. Why rob future audiences of that experience? To make current fanatical viewers pleased that the MCU is an ever-continuous world with no redos for others to appreciate?

Come on. You have to be kidding now.

What he is continually missing is that the future is likely a combined approach.  What we will see is a mixture of old legacy characters and new popular characters, based on, funny enough, what is popular and what they think will make them money. He is also missing the fact that we are far from using up stories centering around the older characters. Finally, you can not discount the nostalgia factor, current fans of these characters as the get older will want to share what they love with a new generation. That all means certain things will be brought back.

Edited May 1, 2021 by drotto

[@therealsilvermane]

9 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Why rob future audiences of that experience? To make current fanatical viewers pleased that the MCU is an ever-continuous world with no redos for others to appreciate?

Marvel Studios told Tony Stark's and Steve Rogers' MCU stories in 15 or so films collectively and over a 10 year span. They finished their stories within the larger story of the MCU. If future audiences want the Tony Stark or Steve Rogers MCU experience, they can enjoy their adventures for the first time on Disney+, now the official living space of the MCU.

 

[drotto]

14 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Marvel Studios told Tony Stark's and Steve Rogers' MCU stories in 15 or so films collectively and over a 10 year span. They finished their stories within the larger story of the MCU. If future audiences want the Tony Stark or Steve Rogers MCU experience, they can enjoy their adventures for the first time on Disney+, now the official living space of the MCU.

 

But those movies will become dated, you honestly think they are such cinematic masterpieces that all of them are going to stand the test of time?  Future generations will be driven to see sll them to get the entire story.  I already have no desire to rewatch FaWS or WandaVison.  My son who loves the MCU did not care to watch either of those. Are they instant classics also?

 

Finally, you will run into the same problem that comics have faced for years.  When you have a massive body of work, it can be daunting as a new viewer (or reader) to have so many hours of required viewing to understand what is going on now.  We love continuity as comic people, but must admit it becomes cumbersome. That will often turn people off from even starting because it is too much of a commitment, or they just do not know where to start if they do not want to start from the begining.

Edited May 1, 2021 by drotto

[D84]

This show was so good, people are now talking about a do over of the whole MCU.

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Marvel Studios told Tony Stark's and Steve Rogers' MCU stories in 15 or so films collectively and over a 10 year span. They finished their stories within the larger story of the MCU. If future audiences want the Tony Stark or Steve Rogers MCU experience, they can enjoy their adventures for the first time on Disney+, now the official living space of the MCU.

"This has been a message from your friendly neighborhood Disney Commercial Man!"

And the mighty Marvel Entertainment did this with Tony Stark and Steve Rogers in the comic books? I know your views on comic book influences on the MCU varies on what point you are proclaiming is relevant. Meanwhile, if future audiences want THEIR version of the characters for a given period, Disney will oblige them.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

"This has been a message from your friendly neighborhood Disney Commercial Man!"

And the mighty Marvel Entertainment did this with Tony Stark and Steve Rogers in the comic books? I know your views on comic book influences on the MCU varies on what point you are proclaiming is relevant. Meanwhile, if future audiences want THEIR version of the characters for a given period, Disney will oblige them.

Because the MCU and the Marvel Comics are two completely different things. The MCU just takes inspiration from the comics. Tony Stark is going to stay dead in the MCU and fans of the future will be just fine with it. The image of middle school MCU fans of the future standing outside Marvel Studios' gates and holding up protest banners chanting "We want OUR Tony Stark! When do want him? Now!" is making me laugh in my head.

[skypinkblu]

Hugh Jackman was a star on the stage in Australia and London before he was in X-men and RDJ was a well known actor, with some problems.

Both are good actors with the ability to charm the audience and had a track record, even though Jackman was not well known here. 

I'm sure we have a few others who can take their place as long as they stick to quality performers.

Stage actors are kind of used to be replaced in the same role, by others. I think I'd prefer that to redoing the whole story like they have with the 65 million versions of Spidey.

I go to all the Spidey movies, but they start to feel like Ground Hog Day after a while. 

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Because the MCU and the Marvel Comics are two completely different things. The MCU just takes inspiration from the comics. Tony Stark is going to stay dead in the MCU and fans of the future will be just fine with it. The image of middle school MCU fans of the future standing outside Marvel Studios' gates and holding up protest banners chanting "We want OUR Tony Stark! When do want him? Now!" is making me laugh in my head.

That's the other voices you are hearing speak to you from your 'small circle of friends'.

Sorry, I don't live in the MCU Cosmic world of storming the Sony HQ in order to reclaim the Spider-Man film rights which you were a fan of doing as well. These are fictional characters, and like many I live in the real world. Not beings to be saved from some imaginary hostage situation.

[drotto]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Because the MCU and the Marvel Comics are two completely different things. The MCU just takes inspiration from the comics. Tony Stark is going to stay dead in the MCU and fans of the future will be just fine with it. The image of middle school MCU fans of the future standing outside Marvel Studios' gates and holding up protest banners chanting "We want OUR Tony Stark! When do want him? Now!" is making me laugh in my head.

You can not seriously believe they are two completely separate things, when all of these characters were created by the comics, and most of the storylines were at minimum inspired by, if not directly taken from the comics. Name me one significant character in the MCU that does not come form the comics first, and we can talk about them being completely separate things.

[@therealsilvermane]

Obviously it's the same company and the same characters. Feige's whole thing is taking their story beats from the comics. My point is the difference between printed pages and live action. They are definitely separate in that regard and also in the stories they can tell and how to tell it. That should be obvious.