Disney+'s WandaVision (2020) 6 6

[media_junkie]

What a great episode.  At the end I was full on WTF!?!?

[fantastic_four]

3 minutes ago, media_junkie said:

What a great episode.  At the end I was full on WTF!?!?

Yep...but it fell flat on me due to the spoilers leaked last week that Evan Peters would be in the series.  

[fantastic_four]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

Does Agents of SHIELD take place before the events of the first Avengers film?  I just realized the show started after he supposedly died.  Anyone like this show?  I didn't watch it because I was never an Avengers fan growing up, and didn't really start feeling like a fan until a year after the first film came out.  But SHIELD still didn't interest me, and it still doesn't fully, but I'm far more interested now than I was when the show was actually airing.

OK, I Googled this and I see they resurrected Coulson and that's why he's on the show.  

And that's just another reason I'm sure Feige has avoided having anything about the Perlmutter shows in the films...I can't imagine him doing something that hokey and probably did a face palm when he heard Perlmutter was going to let it happen.  Comic book characters never really dying is one of the biggest eye-rollingly-bad elements in the history of the medium.

Edited February 5, 2021 by fantastic_four

[fantastic_four]

I had forgotten Wanda and Pietro were members of HYDRA for most of their lives at the time of Age of Ultron until they mentioned it in this episode.  I need to re-watch that, don't think I've seen it for 4+ years now...are we sure she's fully rejected them and isn't working with them in this series?  I don't remember now why she flipped and joined the Avengers.  I remember her hating Tony Stark but not how she overcame it.

[Bosco685]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Lagos

  Reveal hidden contents

Marvel Cinematic Universe (Earth-199999)
Crossbones was pinpointed by intel to be headed for Lagos, Nigeria. Then at the Institute for Infectious Diseases, Captain America and his fellow Avengers stopped him and his mercenaries. Then, Rumlow fought Captain America, but Rogers had beaten him up. Captain America demanded Rumlow to reveal who he was working for, Rumlow claimed that it was the Winter Soldier who was pulling his strings before arming a bomb applied in his suicide vest, intending to take Captain America with him. Maximoff used her powers to whisk him away from Rogers but unintentionally placed him next to a building with Wakandan nationals. Rumlow is among those who perished in the resulting explosion.

X-Men Cinematic Universe (Earth-10005)
William Stryker led Black Ops group called Team X, which consisted of James "Logan" Howlett, Victor Creed, Wade Wilson, Agent Zero, John Wraith, Chris Bradley and Fred Dukes. Their first mission involved tracking the source of a mysterious meteorite to Lagos, Nigeria. They used their mutant powers to invade a facility and stole nothing but a paper weight. They followed the trail to a village where they threatened a villager as to where the meteorite came from, Logan becomes disgusted and leaves. With his departure, Team X disbands.

 

I'm hoping this does tie together two elements across franchises. But don't want to get my hopes up.

[adampasz]

I'm just glad they explained...

Spoiler

her accent.

 

[adampasz]

20 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

OK, I Googled this and I see they resurrected Coulson and that's why he's on the show.  

And that's just another reason I'm sure Feige has avoided having anything about the Perlmutter shows in the films...I can't imagine him doing something that hokey and probably did a face palm when he heard Perlmutter was going to let it happen.  Comic book characters never really dying is one of the biggest eye-rollingly-bad elements in the history of the medium.

I actually kind of enjoyed the first season. There were lots of fun MCU cameos, and the tie-in to Winter Soldier was pretty well done.

Later seasons, it seemed to go off on its own thing, and they moved away from one-and-done episodes to drawn out, meandering story arcs. It felt like a worse version of the worst seasons of Alias. The season 3 attempt to tie in with the Inhumans was a total flop. Also, when SHIELD was disbanded in the MCU it forced the show into a weird place where suddenly they were a band of renegades living out of motel rooms. 

The actors gave it their best, but I also never found the main characters that interesting. (I dropped off at some point in Season 4.)

[fantastic_four]

Just now, adampasz said:

I'm just glad they explained...

  Hide contents

her accent.

 

I didn't feel they had to, but it was definitely interesting to see it confirmed in this episode when she stepped out of Westview.  As soon as I saw the name of the town I just assumed this was Wanda's idealized view of the West, so she's speaking in an American accent because that's what they did in the television shows she saw from Sokovia.

[bpc3qh]

Again, this was stellar. Glad they brought the accent back. I'm still holding out hope that Ian McKellen shows up as Magneto--Peters can't be the guest that Olsen was talking about, since news of his casting had spread pretty widely.

[@therealsilvermane]

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

But with only 9 episodes, dragging this mystery out too far could be perceived as packing air time in something that could be a two-hour movie. Time will tell.

I think a lot of the mystery was answered this episode. Vision is indeed sentient and it appears to be him, he just has no memories prior to Westview. Everything inside the Hex is really happening. It's not an illusion. Most of the Westview residents are victims of the Hex as we're told through Norm.

However, according to everyone except Wanda, this is all Wanda's doing. According to Wanda, she's only partially responsible. That's the mystery for me now, is it all Wanda or someone/something else?

[fantastic_four]

6 minutes ago, bpc3qh said:

I'm still holding out hope that Ian McKellen shows up as Magneto

You mean in the same kind of Wandavision presumably-false way that Quicksilver just showed up?  That'd be fun.

[bpc3qh]

Just now, fantastic_four said:

You mean in the same kind of Wandavision presumably-false way that Quicksilver just showed up?  That'd be fun.

Yeah, that's my assumption at this point. Fassbender obviously works too, but McKellen is my favorite in every way.

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

For the most part a filler episode.

But with only 9 episodes, dragging this mystery out too far could be perceived as packing air time in something that could be a two-hour movie. Time will tell.

I just disagree with both of these points. We're making significant progress, and not dragging it out at all--there's been significant progress over the last two episodes. It's a television show, not a movie--we can make progress in increments.

[AJLewandoski]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

I forgot about Agent Carter.  I never saw it, nor Agents of SHIELD.  So aside from quick references in the Netflix shows we have Carter and Fury in those shows, Coulson in Agents of SHIELD, and I've heard Sif was in Agents of SHIELD as well.  Were there other crossovers from the films?

Does Agents of SHIELD take place before the events of the first Avengers film?  I just realized the show started after he supposedly died.  Anyone like this show?  I didn't watch it because I was never an Avengers fan growing up, and didn't really start feeling like a fan until a year after the first film came out.  But SHIELD still didn't interest me, and it still doesn't fully, but I'm far more interested now than I was when the show was actually airing.

(Boy this ended up being a novel there was a lot to get through. I promise it might be worth a read, but if you go no further than this absolutely watch Agents of Shield)

I've watched through all the Marvel Studios content so I have a good handle on the subject. There's actually a decent net of interconnected references between the shows and movies, but it's basically a one way street of the shows referencing the movies, or other shows. The only time the movies explicitly reference the shows is when Jarvis from Agent Carter shows up in Endgame to pick up Howard Stark.

The Netflix shows reference things like the raft, the chitauri, hulk and abomination battling in Harlem, Justin Hammer tech weapons, and a handful of other things. Sounds like you watched them, so I won't go any deeper.

The ABC shows are debatably the strongest connections. Agent Carter is a nice period piece and picks up right after Cap 1 and at 2 seasons is an enjoyable watch. Hayley Atwell really gets to stretch her legs in the role. Howard Stark and the Howling Commandos from Cap 1 make appearances. Inhumans is widely considered the worst of all the Marvel shows which is a shame because if it had a more adequate budget and a different showrunner it probably would've been the most impactful show they did. The only connection it has is to Agents of Shield.

Agents of Shield starts after Avengers 1. It's arguably the single best Marvel show once it gets its footing, and it has the best and most direct connections throughout. In my opinion everyone should watch it, and I think some of the ideas and characters from it will make the leap into the movies, or D+ shows. Movie characters like Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Sif, Jasper Sitwell, Agent Carter and obviously Coulson show up.

Season 1 is sort of the weakest because there's a lot of set up and stand alone episodes in the first half, but it directly involves things from Thor 2, Cap 2, and Iron Man 3 plus the first appearance of the Kree race in any MCU property. Season 2 sets up a lot of things that happen in the movies having to do with the fall of Shield to Hydra, there's a peek at Scarlet Witch and Quicksilvers background featuring Baron Strucker, and the advent of the surprise helicarrier that shows up at the end of Age of Ultron.

After season 2 it basically untethers itself from having to directly reference the movies, much to it's benefit, and does its own thing with some looser movie connections across the entire series. The characters and plot lines introduced are fantastic and the events of season 4 are the pinnacle of Marvel tv (try not spoil it). 

Then there's the other small handful of shows that don't quite fit elsewhere, Cloak and Dagger, and Runaways. Cloak and Dagger is really ambitious for a young adult show. It hits some serious themes like mental illness, murder, drug abuse, and human trafficking. It's a VERY slow burn through most of the first season, but I dont think it kills it, and when they start using their powers more frequently things get going. Season 2 is far superior with a lot of cool action sequences and set pieces and a decent villain. There are direct references back and forth between it and Luke Cage season 2 on Netflix. Runaways is good, it definitely plays like a teen drama. The ensemble cast is decent, and in the third season theres a crossover with Cloak and Dagger, so that's a bonus. There's also a connection to Agents of Shield, so it really ties all the shows together. 

Lastly there's Helstrom which got abandoned, so everyone says it doesn't count. I enjoyed it and if the rest of the horror based shows for Hulu hadn't been scrapped it would've collided and connected with all the other Marvel tv shows too.

[fantastic_four]

3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I think a lot of the mystery was answered this episode. Vision is indeed sentient and it appears to be him, he just has no memories prior to Westview. Everything inside the Hex is really happening. It's not an illusion. Most of the Westview residents are victims of the Hex as we're told through Norm.

However, according to everyone except Wanda, this is all Wanda's doing. According to Wanda, she's only partially responsible. That's the mystery for me now, is it all Wanda or someone/something else?

I'm 90% sure it's someone else as ALL signs both in the show and given what we know about Wanda's powers in the MCU or in the comics suggest she can't just re-create Vision.  This is why I'm thinking she may still be working with HYDRA--they told her they could restore his mind, so she fetched the body for them to do it.

Which known character from the MCU or comics would be the best candidate for having re-created Vision?  It would have to be an EXTREMELY smart character, someone on the level of Stark and Banner.  Baron Strucker isn't that guy.  MODOK?

And why did she tell him they couldn't leave?  Is it because he wouldn't work outside of Westview, or is it because she's afraid she's headed to the Raft for taking over the town?

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, bpc3qh said:

Yeah, that's my assumption at this point. Fassbender obviously works too, but McKellen is my favorite in every way.

I just disagree with both of these points. We're making significant progress, and not dragging it out at all--there's been significant progress over the last two episodes. It's a television show, not a movie--we can make progress in increments.

Relax there. It was an observation. The show within a show concept was okay for a few episodes. Dragging it out further when we are clear what is going on was the concern.

It is a 9-episode television show. Not a traditional channel 22-23 episode run. Don't let the concept get hung up on a point and not keep the ball moving forward.

[fantastic_four]

4 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Which known character from the MCU or comics would be the best candidate for having re-created Vision?  It would have to be an EXTREMELY smart character, someone on the level of Stark and Banner.  Baron Strucker isn't that guy.  MODOK?

What am I asking?  Obviously the ideal candidate would be his previous creator, Ultron.  But who else?  I doubt it's him, but he's definitely a candidate.

[HighVoltage]

I liked seeing some possible exploring about the Westview hex and Wanda's powers in the episode.

I'd wondered if Wanda wanted to re-animate/re-activate(?) the Vision since Endgame, but had no idea how we got to NJ and in the Westview hex bubble.

Are the town-folk employees of SWORD - who were working on/dissecting/analyzing the Vision in the video they watched (where Wanda arrives)?
Is that what Herb was trying to tell Viz, when he was cutting through the wall with the hedge clippers? "Hey, Vision - we're SWORD employess, and we're
being held hostage in here! Help!"

My first thought upon seeing that video of Wanda storming in was that it was doctored and that our head of SWORD was that 'ah-ha' typical bad guy.
I'm not sure about that now. I think the head of SWORD has been told to take out the threat of Wanda, and he believes he's doing the right thing.
Was he under orders to take that kill shot? Thunderbolt Ross by any chance behind that?

I think Wanda has put herself in this safe, comfort-bubble, and used the idealized sit-coms she has watched as a model for how she just wanted life to be
with Vision. She felt like she could control that. But her powers are chaotic, and she doesn't control everything going on in the hex-bubble. She can correct
and maintain things if she pays attention to it or she can re-enact it/re-wind it the way she wants it to be if there's a glitch.

The re-animated Vision is sentient enough to question Wanda in moments, and realize something is wrong.
I think he may 'wake up' enough at some point, but more of an emotionless robotic personality, and tell Wanda to let him go and that this situation is wrong.
That might help push Wanda over the edge.

But I think he hex-bubble has torn a hole in reality or weakened the barriers, and now we're getting a bleed-thru - ergo 'New Pietro!'
I think SWORD is going to see this, and it's going to be presented that Wanda has to be stopped or the hex-bubble will expand.
I think Wanda is going to lose her grip on reality, and that's what is going to tie in with the Dr. Strange movie title: The Multiverse of Madness.
Wanda's powers have created this bleed-thru in the multiverse and she's going to lose it.

So whatta you do? Call in Dr. Strange. Or he sees the problem and arrives independently.

I'd love to see Reed show up, especially in a non-powered, straight-up, big-brained capacity.

I'm leaning into the Fastbender/Magneto-poppa camp with you guys.

[fantastic_four]

5 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

The show within a show concept was okay for a few episodes. Dragging it out further when we are clear what is going on was the concern.

We're clear what's going on?  I'm definitely not.  I can't tell how much of Westview is her doing and how much is someone else, but it does seem clear it's not just her doing everything.  For example I'm now convinced it's not her creating the Wandavision commercials--someone else is doing that.  And someone is doing the filming.  She's not omnsicient, and the scope of what's going on with the show production and broadcasting is well beyond anything I've seen from her in the MCU or comics.

That Lagos commercial had an allusion to Wanda accidentally killing all of those people that led to the Sokovia accords.  Who would put that in there?    Whoever did that has a bizarre sense of humor.  Come to think of it, Ultron had that kind of twisted sense of humor...  

[HighVoltage]

2 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

We're clear what's going on?  I'm definitely not.  I can't tell how much of Westview is her doing and how much is someone else, but it does seem clear it's not just her doing everything.  For example I'm now convinced it's not her creating the Wandavision commercials--someone else is doing that.  And someone is doing the filming.  She's not omnsicient, and the scope of what's going on with the show production and broadcasting is well beyond anything I've seen from her in the MCU or comics.

That Lagos commercial had an allusion to Wanda accidentally killing all of those people that led to the Sokovia accords.  Who would put that in there?    Whoever did that has a bizarre sense of humor.  Come to think of it, Ultron had that kind of twisted sense of humor...  

Yes - Why broadcast it at all?

What would be the point of the broadcast and letting someone see what was going on inside the bubble?

[fantastic_four]

17 minutes ago, AJLewandoski said:

(Boy this ended up being a novel there was a lot to get through. I promise it might be worth a read, but if you go no further than this absolutely watch Agents of Shield)

Great response, thanks!  I'll probably ask follow-ups, but it'll take a while to absorb all the great summarization you did.