Disney+'s WandaVision (2020) 6 6

[@therealsilvermane]

Just now, chezmtghut said:

An android can also be brought back to life though. I would think that when Wanda destroyed the soul stone, she absorbed the consciousness of Vision from it & that WandaVision is her minds struggle to hold onto Vision at all cost, creating a time loop.

Wanda destroyed the Mind Stone. But Thanos also reversed time with the Time Stone so that Wanda never destroys it.

[fantastic_four]

4 minutes ago, chezmtghut said:

An android can also be brought back to life though. I would think that when Wanda destroyed the soul stone, she absorbed the consciousness of Vision from it & that WandaVision is her minds struggle to hold onto Vision at all cost, creating a time loop.

I assume you mean the Mind stone...but she didn't destroy it.  Thanos used the Time stone to erase that from having happened.  That's how he ended up with all the stones.

Even if Thanos hadn't reversed time and Wanda destroyed the Mind stone the idea that she absorbed it is pure magic (i.e. lazy writing).  This is my problem with "magic" being mixed with science...it explains EVERYTHING, without bounds.  I like stories about magic, but I get queasy when you mix magic and science.  I turn my brain off when I think about Kenneth Branagh suggesting in the first Thor movie that Asgardians somehow mixed magic and science together.  

Edited February 1, 2021 by fantastic_four

[fantastic_four]

2 minutes ago, the blob said:

Wandavision is 20__ (?).

I think it's 2023, but it could be 2024.

[AJLewandoski]

 

5 minutes ago, the blob said:

They're dead. Just like everyone who was in planes piloted by folks who vanished are dead. And cars that crashed into people when the drivers diappeared may have killed those people. And patients whose surgeons disappeared mid surgery and on and on. So, Thanos succeeded in killing a bunch of people. And I will thank my 9 year old for pointing this out ... if you just rematerialize where you were before, what if someone else is standing there right now or there is an object there??

 

They showed how this worked when Monica reappeared in episode 4. People are reappearing as she's walking down the hallway in the hospital. They reappear like they disappeared sort of in ashes, so the particles move around any obstacle and are put back together in any available open space.

[the blob]

Just now, fantastic_four said:

I think it's 2023, but it could be 2024.

13 years later she could have gotten 2 doctorates

[AJLewandoski]

So part of episode 6 leaked and I'm gonna throw it in a spoiler tag for anyone who wants to peek

Spoiler

In the clip Vision escapes the barrier of the town and makes contact with SWORD, but is pulled back in and partially torn apart quickly thereafter. The clip also shows Wanda in her Halloween costume and Billy (Wiccan now an adolescent) talking to Evan Peters (Fox's Quicksilver in a comic accurate Quicksilver costume) and he's basically mocking her about Visions death, so she uses her powers to throw him. This to me doesn't seem like something a brother (even a reality displaced one) would do, so I have to think that he isn't actually Quicksilver.

 

[fantastic_four]

Part of my problem with Wanda and Vision is we BARELY saw anything between them to buy this attachment she has for him.  Yes, I know it semi-well from the comics having read them since the 80s, but I never fully understood it there, either.  She's a human, he's an android.  The movie "Her" kind of introduced us to crossing the organic-technical barrier, but nowhere CLOSE to a full realization for how it would happen with a real, in-person android.  I don't fully buy it, and nobody truly does that I've heard from to date.

What did they do in the MCU to establish it?  Virtually nothing, so I guess we just assume it happened off-screen?  I had hoped they might spend some time on it in this series, but nope.  It's just a given.   It's a flaw, but not a fatal one.  But a flaw that keeps coming up every time we think about their love, much less their kids (MAGIC!)

Edited February 1, 2021 by fantastic_four

[AJLewandoski]

3 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Part of my problem with Wanda and Vision is we BARELY saw anything between them to buy this attachment she has for him.  Yes, I know it semi-well from the comics having read them since the 80s, but I never fully understood it there, either.  She's a human, he's an android.  The movie "Her" kind of introduced us to crossing the organic-technical barrier, but nowhere CLOSE to a full realization for how it would happen with a real, in-person android.  I don't fully buy it, and nobody truly does that I've heard from to date.

What did they do in the MCU to establish it?  Virtually nothing, so I guess we just assume it happened off-screen?  I had hoped they might spend some time on it in this series, but nope.  It's just a given.  

If you want to see a movie more along those lines try Ex Machina

[Bosco685]

18 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

This isn't a plot hole. Even if people weren't brought back safely, they were still brought back. The movie just doesn't visually show how everyone is brought back. It may have been possible people were brought back over the ocean or in space. It's still not a plot hole.

Professor Hulk verbally says "Everybody comes home," as he's getting ready to put on the Iron Gauntlet. This could mean a lot of things, including everyone comes back safely. Banner has a big brain, it doesn't require a suspension of disbelief to accept that his "wish" is a complex one and that he multi-tasked in it, such as making sure people in a dangerous position are brought back safely. He even says later he tried to bring Natalie back, but it didn't work.

I think the challenge with any fantasy films which utilize more complex concepts like time travel or teleportation you have to invest a little more effort into making it all come together. Which is most probably why later on the directors and writers explained the concept and events differently. Including how Steve Rogers's journey played out.

In this case, noting the use of an Infinity Gauntlet to bring together the power of all the stones to snap everyone back into reality is not a light event. Especially when you note they appear back where their journey started. But then write off the error in the logic with dangerous situations with the disclaimer 'and any dangerous scenario was thoroughly thought out by Smart Hulk - so nothing to see here!'

[the blob]

6 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Part of my problem with Wanda and Vision is we BARELY saw anything between them to buy this attachment she has for him.  Yes, I know it semi-well from the comics having read them since the 80s, but I never fully understood it there, either.  She's a human, he's an android.  The movie "Her" kind of introduced us to crossing the organic-technical barrier, but nowhere CLOSE to a full realization for how it would happen with a real, in-person android.  I don't fully buy it, and nobody truly does that I've heard from to date.

What did they do in the MCU to establish it?  Virtually nothing, so I guess we just assume it happened off-screen?  I had hoped they might spend some time on it in this series, but nope.  It's just a given.   It's a flaw, but not a fatal one.  But a flaw that keeps coming up every time we think about their love, much less their kids (MAGIC!)

They have been off living with each other in Avengers Infinity War for a while so who knows. If he has a lot of jarvis in him maybe jarvis was a real nice guy? I haven't watched Agent Carter yet, but he was kind of a hotty (he was in Avengers Endgame for half a second): 

[fantastic_four]

10 minutes ago, AJLewandoski said:

14 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Part of my problem with Wanda and Vision is we BARELY saw anything between them to buy this attachment she has for him.  Yes, I know it semi-well from the comics having read them since the 80s, but I never fully understood it there, either.  She's a human, he's an android.  The movie "Her" kind of introduced us to crossing the organic-technical barrier, but nowhere CLOSE to a full realization for how it would happen with a real, in-person android.  I don't fully buy it, and nobody truly does that I've heard from to date.

What did they do in the MCU to establish it?  Virtually nothing, so I guess we just assume it happened off-screen?  I had hoped they might spend some time on it in this series, but nope.  It's just a given.  

If you want to see a movie more along those lines try Ex Machina

I saw it, but that relationship is so dysfunctional between a lonely programmer and a captive android that it's hard to translate to free relationships.  That love wasn't mutual and doesn't translate to two free individuals.

[the blob]

I assume Jarvis is supposed to be dead in the current timeline, I can't remember if Stark says he is dead. He'd be like 100, right?

[fantastic_four]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I think the challenge with any fantasy films which utilize more complex concepts like time travel or teleportation you have to invest a little more effort into making it all come together. Which is most probably why later on the directors and writers explained the concept and events differently. Including how Steve Rogers's journey played out.

It's not just a challenge, it's absolutely, positively IMPOSSIBLE.  You can't do it without plot holes, which is why I rank Endgame significantly lower than Infinity War which left explaining the time shift to bring everyone back to its sequel.

[chezmtghut]

20 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I assume you mean the Mind stone...but she didn't destroy it.  Thanos used the Time stone to erase that from having happened.  That's how he ended up with all the stones.

Even if Thanos hadn't reversed time and Wanda destroyed the Mind stone the idea that she absorbed it is pure magic (i.e. lazy writing).  This is my problem with "magic" being mixed with science...it explains EVERYTHING, without bounds.  I like stories about magic, but I get queasy when you mix magic and science.  I turn my brain off when I think about Kenneth Branagh suggesting in the first Thor movie that Asgardians somehow mixed magic and science together.  

Sorry, I got the stones mixed up. This may be a version of Wanda that can be compared to an echo or shadow from when Thanos reversed events with the time stone. I can see why you don't like magic from your explanation but maybe it's lazy thinking to assume that magic & science are different at all. I see science as the understanding of how magic can be applied. Modern science doesn't offer an explanation to how everything is created, so that knowledge can be described as magic.

[Gatsby77]

3 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

One of the things I forgot when I hypothesized they would reveal that Wanda is a mutant in this series is the devastation that Ike Perlmutter wrought on the comics stories in 2014 in an attempt to squeeze value out of Fox's ownership of the X-Men and Fantastic Four.  That's the year they killed Wolverine, authors were told to create NO new mutant characters, Fantastic Four was cancelled, and they ret-conned Wanda and Pietro into not being Magneto's kids and not being mutants.  So it's anybody's guess as to whether or not Feige will go with pre-Ike or post-Ike lore in the MCU.

Certainly Feige didn't like Ike's decision-making with VERY good reason, so if this were 2018 and I had to bet I'd bet he'd revert them to being mutants.  But since I live in 2021 and realize that Feige has been Chief Creative Officer of Marvel's print content since 2019 and hasn't re-ret-conned Wanda and Pietro back into mutants I suppose I should bet he won't make them mutants.  Like Ike or not, he gave fans whiplash in 2014, and Feige changing it back would be another case of story continuity whiplash to fans.

At least in the comics.  Feige is pretty free to do what he wants in the MCU, so I give a slight edge to them being revealed as mutants, but I won't be at all surprised at either outcome.

Hence the theory that this will turn out to be a reverse House of M, with Wanda bringing mutants into the MCU by whispering "Mutants" rather than "No more mutants."

For that to make sense, neither she nor Quicksilver can be mutants themselves. And gives credence to Feige's not undoing the Perlmutter retcon in the comics.

[fantastic_four]

6 minutes ago, chezmtghut said:

Modern science doesn't offer an explanation to how everything is created, so that knowledge can be described as magic.

Arthur C. Clarke said that eloquently as "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."  Which I vehemently agree with, but please, if you're writing a fictional narrative, PLEASE, leave scientific technology within the understanding of the current age out if you can't explain it scientifically.  Otherwise you're breaking everyone's brain in trying to figure out an explanation for something which HAS no explanation.  

Edited February 1, 2021 by fantastic_four

[fantastic_four]

4 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Hence the theory that this will turn out to be a reverse House of M, with Wanda bringing mutants into the MCU by whispering "Mutants" rather than "No more mutants."

For that to make sense, neither she nor Quicksilver can be mutants themselves. And gives credence to Feige's not undoing the Perlmutter retcon in the comics.

I'm not following that idea.  Why can't Wanda and Pietro be mutants for Wanda to reveal mutantkind in whatever undefined way the Mind stone brought her own powers out?  I don't even see why she'd care about whispering "mutants" at all if she wasn't one herself.

[chezmtghut]

1 minute ago, fantastic_four said:

Arthur C. Clarke said that eloquently as "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."  Which I vehemently agree with, but please, if you're writing a fictional narrative, PLEASE, leave scientific technology within the understanding of the current age out if you can't explain it scientifically.  Otherwise you're breaking everyone's brain in trying to figure out an explanation for which HAS no explanation.  

It's only fictional due to lack of understanding. I can explain magic very easily & already went into it briefly in my other posts. Everything is controlled by the principles we call magnetism & everything is made up of it to varying degrees. Modern science calls them protons & electrons in atomic form. I can explain every super power based on that one principle & all of the theories modern scientists have come up with can be explained by magnetic resonance as well.

[Old_Man_Adam]

53 minutes ago, the blob said:

I think she is great. And Thor 1 was in 2011. Wandavision is 20__ (?). Plenty of time for her to change majors and get a doctorate, assuming she was not snapped out of existence.

I wasn’t knocking it - more of a knock on her , i was referencing it as another example of marvels continuity through the films... they have such an exemplary use of attention to detail through all the movies with references and connections , it’s one of my favorite things ie:) “ point break “ in Ragnarok ,” I can do this all day “ Endgame et al

side note: I wonder if anyone has compiled a list of those 

[Muno42]

I don't see this in the thread. What's going on with Vision exhibiting super speed multiple times? Sure Vision should be pretty fast, being Vision and all, but some of the scenes were Quicksilver fast.