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CGC lost my books?
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Started by It'sOnlyRight,

386 posts in this topic

Tony S

Tony S

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, It'sOnlyRight said:

They tried to offer me declare value in CGC credit. I said no. That is so disrespectful. I put my time and effort to find those books in those grades and they want to offer CGC credit? I'm pissed. 

Well - as I mentioned earlier the maximum compensation if the books have been lost by CGC from CGC is going to be the lower of declared value or Fair Market Value. With FMV determined by CGC. 

Would it be more acceptable to you if CGC just cut you a check in that amount instead of a credit to your account? If so - then politely state  you want their offer in cash, not credit. If the issue is the AMOUNT, then there is no reason to waste your time and emotional energy being pissed. Because the absolute, top dollar settlement you can possibly get from CGC is what you declared the FMV of the books to be.

I submit a lot of books to CGC so a credit to my account is in fact as good as a check. I'll end up spending the $$ next week.  If you don't submit often - or you never intend to submit again - I certainly understand.  Just ask for a check and see what they say. But if the amount CGC offered upsets you, then your unfortunate situation represents the risk of sending in books at a declared FMV that is less than what they are likely worth. This is NOT a criticism directed towards you by me. We all do it. I would maintain CGC even encourages it. When CGC announced that the modern tier was rolled back to 1975 (thank you Voldy) that announcement was accompanied by a picture of GS X-Men 1 CGC 9.6.  Last i checked, GSX 1 in 9.6 is worth many multiples of $200.  If your send  GSX 1, or your NM 98, or you NYX 3  or Ms Marvel 1  in as a modern with a FMV of $200,  CGC probably grades it and sends it back. They don't ask for more $$ in grading fees. But those books are only  insured for what you declared ($200 or less if sent in as a modern tier submission)  If anything happens to the book or the package somewhere along the way, that's the amount declared and the maximum compensation coming. From CGC or USPS.  And if your books were in fact worth a lot more than declared FMV, neither does CGC have any reason or incentive to go secure replacement copies. Check or credit is both fair and costs them less. 

Edited by Tony S
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Tony S

Tony S

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The problem with declared value...what has been the problem since Day 1...is that there is a built-in conflict, which is that the price for the same service goes up, based on the value of the item. But you don't really *know* the value of the item until it's been graded.

Say I submit a Amazing Spiderman #301 If I think it's a 9.4, that's got a market value of about $80.

But say I was overly harsh in my estimate of the grade, and it grades 9.8? Now that book...same book, same condition it was in (theoretically) before you sent it...now has a market value of $1250.

Miniscule difference in grade...massive difference in price.

Well, if something happens to it, and you declared a value of $200...you're screwed, unless CGC upcharges you (at their discretion, which happens.)

Now, reverse the scenario. Say you think it's a 9.8, and send it in under the Express tier, which is what you're *supposed* to do.

Say it grades 9.4.

You've just spent $80 to $100 to grade a $75 book. And CGC DOES NOT "downcharge." You don't get a refund. People don't want to pay more than they have to, but it opens them up to serious risk, in either scenario.

It's a real problem, that should eventually be addressed.

There really isn't a good solution to this. Along with higher value tiers is usually (but not always) faster service (Turn Around Time) In your example, if CGC delivers the Express tier service (5 business days), they certainly are entitled to the express tier price.  Regardless of what the book turns out to be worth based on grade. SOME people use the faster tiers on relatively inexpensive books just because they do not wish to wait. 

CGC could (as Voldy is much more inclined to do) charge more if the book's grade makes it worth more than the value limit the tier it was submitted under.  But that wouldn't exactly make most people happy either. With the book you use as an example, it is really and truly is under the value limit at 9.4.  We really want CGC digging into our pockets every time we get a 9.8?

Perhaps the only (partial)  solution really worth considering is raising the value limit of the tiers across the board. Or at least for the less expensive tiers. We've had these FMV limits from the beginning. Most collectible comic books have only gotten more expensive in the almost two decades since CGC opened.  But even with this idea the devil is in the details. CGC is a business looking to make money. If they doubled the FMV limits of the least expensive grading tiers, they might have to - in order to make the same amount of $$ - increase the grading fees. 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Tony S said:

In your example, if CGC delivers the Express tier service (5 business days), they certainly are entitled to the express tier price.  Regardless of what the book turns out to be worth based on grade. SOME people use the faster tiers on relatively inexpensive books just because they do not wish to wait. 

Of course...but that's not at issue. If someone wants to pay the Express tier for an Alf #3 in 3.5, more power to them. They have that choice. The issue is the inability to really *know* the value of the item until it's been graded, which can occasionally lead to disastrous consequences, no matter which road the submitter chooses. That level of risk would normally be unacceptable in a straight business venture. There is a measure of gambling that takes place which, frankly, ought not to exist. It is only because CGC has been reliably consistent that that risk hasn't been exposed a lot more over the years. 

 

11 hours ago, Tony S said:

CGC could (as Voldy is much more inclined to do) charge more if the book's grade makes it worth more than the value limit the tier it was submitted under.  But that wouldn't exactly make most people happy either. With the book you use as an example, it is really and truly is under the value limit at 9.4.  We really want CGC digging into our pockets every time we get a 9.8?

CGC has done this on the occasional basis as well. It definitely leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth.

11 hours ago, Tony S said:

Perhaps the only (partial)  solution really worth considering is raising the value limit of the tiers across the board. Or at least for the less expensive tiers. We've had these FMV limits from the beginning. Most collectible comic books have only gotten more expensive in the almost two decades since CGC opened.  But even with this idea the devil is in the details. CGC is a business looking to make money. If they doubled the FMV limits of the least expensive grading tiers, they might have to - in order to make the same amount of $$ - increase the grading fees. 

CGC has occasionally raised prices in the past, and, as loathe as I am to say it, is probably due to do so again in the near future. Without legitimate competition, it's tough to gauge, but the fact that CGC is still getting massive amounts of material thrown at them to grade tells me that they're not charging high enough prices. They kinda sorta raised the value limits of the tiers a couple of years ago, but not really. I suspect there are other solutions, but the bottom line is, the price of "the cheap" service is such a wide gulf from "the expensive" that it forces people to use "the cheap" and take the risk...again, a thoroughly unacceptable level of it in a straight business transaction. If my modern is "worth" $150, great: $16 to grade. But if it's worth $250? Well, I could submit it Econ, but that nearly doubles the cost ($28.) And if it's worth $500? It's *supposed* to be submitted Standard, which is a whopping four times+ the price ($51)...

...and God help me if it grades lower than I expect, or anything happens to it along the way. For the submitter for whom time is not of the essence...and that's a lot of submitters...the math doesn't work in those cases. The whole system can only work when CGC is at the top of their game, and every employee is dedicated to the highest standards of care and protection from start to finish. 

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The Lions Den

The Lions Den

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, justafan said:

The fear of some folks that handle the media mail packages anywhere along the last mile to CGC's address could use the controversy of comic books not qualifying as media mail to game the system is what prevents me from sending anything to CGC via media mail.  Who would question a postal employee inspecting a media mail package destined for a certain known Sarasota address, pulling out the contents to inspect, and then stuffing in a bunch of packaging minus the good key books, resealing, and allowing it to proceed to its delivery.  Perhaps only the postal manager can do inspections and perhaps they have cameras monitoring all inspections.  Still, I wonder...

Great point. I'll never send anything with any real value by Media Mail again...

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F For Fake

F For Fake

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Gaard said:

OT post...

I've never been a big fan of tiers. I would have no issue with charging more for different TATs, but the age of the comic, imo, shouldn't impact the cost of the service. I'm also not clear why there is a 'max value' for the different tiers.

I am right there with you. The process of grading should be the same regardless of the age of the age and value of the book. Just seems like a way to gouge people who have money to buy and submit nicer stuff. (I am not one of those people, at least not very often.)

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/4/2019 at 12:44 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Wanna see my invoices....?

I think he was referring to me. Anyway, my "hypothetical" 9.8 was hardly meant to be disrespectful, but it doesn't sound like you (I'm talking to tbe OP not rma) have the track record to assume a box of 9.8s, particularly after a few weeks in transit media. I sure as heck don't either. If RMA or joeypost or one of the other guys here who does this stuff in volume feels that way that's a little different. But I live in a world where these are potential 9.8s until cgc decides. They are the deciders! Anyway, I hope they figure out what happened to your books.

Edited by the blob
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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, the blob said:
On 4/3/2019 at 9:44 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Wanna see my invoices....?

I think he was referring to me.

He was...but bragging about his grading skills, while putting down other members for perceived lack thereof, especially in response to your comment that was not insulting, is tacky.

I gotcher back. ;)

 

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

He was...but bragging about his grading skills, while putting down other members for perceived lack thereof, especially in response to your comment that was not insulting, is tacky.

I gotcher back. ;)

 

I love you too.

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Transplant

Transplant

Posted
Posted
On 4/3/2019 at 2:19 PM, Park said:

(Transplant being a voice of reason, and me supporting him, is cause for concern as well. lol )

How much would your mind be blown if I said I have had drinks with RMA and resisted any urge to punch his junk?  

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Park

Park

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Transplant said:

How much would your mind be blown if I said I have had drinks with RMA and resisted any urge to punch his junk?  

That must have been some bet you lost.

Also, Why the junk? That seems unsanitary.

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Transplant said:

How much would your mind be blown if I said I have had drinks with RMA and resisted any urge to punch his junk?  

Real men punch each other in the face. Junk punching is last resort stuff.

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